REASON vs other DAWS

[2chris]

Whenever a discussion about what reason is lacking comes up, I can’t help but think that it comes from a place of love for the DAW and wanting it to keep progressing. The reality is that development more recently has been quicker, but historically is not on pace with the industry. They aren’t setup as a company for this, because they seem to put lots of time into instruments, fx, doing things like players and an external rack plugin that others aren’t.

If you want a daw pushing the envelope on features above all else, buy Studio One or Cubase. If you want a steady trickle of lifetime updates, get Logic or FL Studio. My problem with those options is that music isn’t about features. It’s about inspiration and output. Reason is a weird and creative environment that, while not always as efficient as other options, brings some unique things to the table. If those things help you make music you wouldn’t otherwise make, that has huge value. My two favorite daws are Live and Reason, and neither is a feature leader. Live has an amazing workflow, and Reason can do some great sound design and is super fun to get quick ideas going on many of the unique synths and mangling options.

[Boombastix]

Hi, well I'm achieving pretty much all what I want within reason, certainly with what REASON is doing these last years: VST etc.. My complaint as been stated above, has also been very well answered and I can agree with most of the feedback.
I would love to use Touché and other controllers without to much programming etc. It seems that the future is bright on those things.
That being said, I owned a NEKTAR P4 and found it not appealing to work with. It's plastic feel, it low quality faders etc. it just doesn't feel right... Didn't have the change to use the never versions T6 etc. so I'm open for that. Although I must say, the button thing for most 'normal' use, play, stop etc. I use my Mac keyboard which works fine. Its more to control fader automation, or Synth knobs etc... so therefor bought the Minilab... with no luck so far in working well... but saw a nice tutorial on youtube which I'm gonna have a look at. Also Looking further for a quality fader / knob controller ... and also I tried my iPad as a controller, which wasn't that bad to be honest.

Grts
Frank

Hey, would love to hear your Touché experience if you decide to buy. I've been considering that and/or a breath controller too.

[Frankdw]

Whenever a discussion about what reason is lacking comes up, I can’t help but think that it comes from a place of love for the DAW and wanting it to keep progressing. The reality is that development more recently has been quicker, but historically is not on pace with the industry. They aren’t setup as a company for this, because they seem to put lots of time into instruments, fx, doing things like players and an external rack plugin that others aren’t.

If you want a daw pushing the envelope on features above all else, buy Studio One or Cubase. If you want a steady trickle of lifetime updates, get Logic or FL Studio. My problem with those options is that music isn’t about features. It’s about inspiration and output. Reason is a weird and creative environment that, while not always as efficient as other options, brings some unique things to the table. If those things help you make music you wouldn’t otherwise make, that has huge value. My two favorite daws are Live and Reason, and neither is a feature leader. Live has an amazing workflow, and Reason can do some great sound design and is super fun to get quick ideas going on many of the unique synths and mangling options.

I Totally agree. I don't have all the tech knowledge, but with some basic youtube info, you can get amazing sounds and ideas very fast. That's what inspires me to make music again and always brings me back to reason as my prefered DAW.

[Frankdw]

Agree with your points really. RS should be doing hardware Remote compatibility themselves these days, as all the focus from manufacturers is on Ableton. It can be very frustrating being a Reason user at times, but it is still a very good piece of software. Things are moving on a bit faster these days but it would be good to see Reason become more compatible with some of the latest technologies.

Hi there, thanks for your kind words.
regarding 'reason should be doing remote mappen themselves', I agree (although I guess there's so much hardware out there it might be to much work). I guess if some of the people on this board say that mapping etc. is pretty much straightforward, even for a touché etc. why not having a programmer at the reason studios doing nothing else than getting the best mappings and solutions for us users out there? Or maybe a 'page' where they test the best mapping solutions from the internet and provide it on one easy to find, orderly managed webpage? Just a tought...

[Frankdw]

Yep, seriously...

I just wanted to mention that your Golden Girls' Kinetic remix was one of my favorite tracks back in the day. Welcome to the forums!

I don't think RS is about to start targeting the pro audio market.

What's weird is that plenty of pros are drawn to Reason, and were even before it became a DAW and then VST plugin. The OP is a pro - and he's been using it since Reason 4. Plenty of hits have been written using Reason. I guess as far as toys go, it's the toy that many pros seem to enjoy.

I do wish Reason Studios would spearhead Remote support and MPE. Its MIDI control is literally stuck in 1984, and it sucks in that regard. Would be legendary of Reason Studios would adopt the MIDI 2.0 spec immediately and start integrating it (along with MPE, etc).

Fingers crossed.
Cheers
f

[reddust]

hello,

i really wish Reason would support MPE
that would probably be my one favorite

there is another forum member who uses a Rolli with Reason
i can't remember the person's name
it'd be interesting to see how they get along with the device in Reason
(i think it's a seaboard)

i'd be after a linnstrument

i do not know how difficult MPE would be to implement into Reason's programming

does anyone know of daws that do MPE please?

EDIT: i just found a bunch of info here: http://www.rogerlinndesign.com/ls-recom ... ounds.html

EDIT: just found this, too: https://surge-synthesizer.github.io/

Serum also does MPE but does Reason DAW need to support MPE as well, or is it just the VST that needs to support MPE please?

that might be the one thing to get me to update to Reason 11: to use the RRP inside a DAW that supports MPE

cheers,

j

I have a Seaboard but I never really managed to use its features with Reason, I can only use it as a regular keyboard and play a little bit with the CC assignments but I cannot use the MPE features at all.

Here you have a list of MPE compatible DAWs and other software:
https://support.roli.com/support/soluti ... nstruments

Ableton Live unfortunately doesn't support it either, too bad then that's my favorite DAW together with Reason. I hope one o these two implements MPE support sometime soon...

[enossified]

To me, it's simple. Pick the right tool for the job.

-- Reason's #1 most appealing feature is it is entirely self contained. If you just stick with what the factory provides, it's perfect for non-pro uses. For pro use where you need third party plugins and external hardware, you will be happier with other DAWs that have effective latency correction, better support for video and surround, etc.

-- If you want deep hardware control of Reason, buy a Nektar product. Arturia controllers are designed to control Analog Collection first, DAWs second. Komplete Kontrol is designed to control Complete and Machine first, DAWs second. Novation and Akai controllers are great for Ableton Live, less useful with other DAWs. Korg, M-Audio, Alesis, etc...nada.

It's a tough decision:

-- I like working with Live the best of all DAWs I have tried, but it has the weakest factory sound library and the widest choice of controllers. It's also the most expensive until you get into Nuendo or the higher level Pro Tools versions.

-- I like Logic's sound library and low price, but it crashes often and is overly complex in many common tasks, but it does have tight integration with Mackie and Nektar controllers.

-- I hate Cubase overall but when I owned Yamaha workstations, it was tightly integrated and the hardware sounds made up for the weak factory library.

-- Reason is almost as easy to use as Live, has a really good sound library, a relatively low price but controller support is poor outside of Nektar.

[chaosroyale]

This is a good, thoughtful point.

On a forum like this, strong but fair criticism can be taken out of context as "negativity" when it was intended to be constructive. On the other hand the personal frustrations of posters (me included I am sure) sometimes can turn a minor complaint into something that sounds like "fuck these guys and the whole DAW"- I really hope that doesn't get to the RS team. They seem pretty chill so maybe they have learned not to take things personally. We sometimes forget that on the other side of the screen is a hardworking human being, whether developers or fellow users.

If I thought Reason was trash, I would simply throw it away, I wouldn't waste time posting about it on the internet. However, I get riled up because some Reason users seem to think that "just use something else" is the answer to any criticism. I want more new users looking for a DAW to think "I could use Reason!", not "I should use something else."

edit- to clarify that last point; I agree there are good and bad things about all the major DAWs. There are areas where Reason should be improved, and "use something else" is not a good answer if Reason could be made better.

Whenever a discussion about what reason is lacking comes up, I can’t help but think that it comes from a place of love for the DAW and wanting it to keep progressing. The reality is that development more recently has been quicker, but historically is not on pace with the industry. They aren’t setup as a company for this, because they seem to put lots of time into instruments, fx, doing things like players and an external rack plugin that others aren’t.

If you want a daw pushing the envelope on features above all else, buy Studio One or Cubase. If you want a steady trickle of lifetime updates, get Logic or FL Studio. My problem with those options is that music isn’t about features. It’s about inspiration and output. Reason is a weird and creative environment that, while not always as efficient as other options, brings some unique things to the table. If those things help you make music you wouldn’t otherwise make, that has huge value. My two favorite daws are Live and Reason, and neither is a feature leader. Live has an amazing workflow, and Reason can do some great sound design and is super fun to get quick ideas going on many of the unique synths and mangling options.

[Stygian Abyss]

regarding 'reason should be doing remote mappen themselves', I agree (although I guess there's so much hardware out there it might be to much work). I guess if some of the people on this board say that mapping etc. is pretty much straightforward, even for a touché etc. why not having a programmer at the reason studios doing nothing else than getting the best mappings and solutions for us users out there? Or maybe a 'page' where they test the best mapping solutions from the internet and provide it on one easy to find, orderly managed webpage? Just a tought...

Why not, but this would be only possible with native Reason devices and REs (And maybe a few culled VSTs), because they are in limited number and already include the Remote template files you have to use to create mappings.

If you want, as you would like, use Remote to control an Arturia VST from an Arturia Keyboard in Reason, you have to create the Remote Codec for your controller and a Map file, of course, but you also have to manually get each automatable parameter name from the VST itself (Or from the manual if you're lucky enough for it to include a parameter list, which exists in the case of Arturia VSTs), because, as far as I know, there's no Remote template file equivalent available for VSTs.

And even if there was one, the almost infinite number of existing VSTs would simply make having all of them to work with all the controllers impossible. Thus, it is even more an available software than an available hardware problem, and unless RS improves the VST device with some Remote-enabled mappable rotaries as I suggested, the only option you're left with if you want to benefit from all the huge advantages of Remote with VSTs is to create your own configuration.

Now, to refine a little bit your suggestion, what would certainly be extremely helpful is the creation of a collaborative website allowing users to post the complete parameter lists of the VSTs they've made Remote-able, just as Artotaku did for Reason devices.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

regarding 'reason should be doing remote mappen themselves', I agree (although I guess there's so much hardware out there it might be to much work). I guess if some of the people on this board say that mapping etc. is pretty much straightforward, even for a touché etc. why not having a programmer at the reason studios doing nothing else than getting the best mappings and solutions for us users out there? Or maybe a 'page' where they test the best mapping solutions from the internet and provide it on one easy to find, orderly managed webpage? Just a tought...

Why not, but this would be only possible with native Reason devices and REs (And maybe a few culled VSTs), because they are in limited number and already include the Remote template files you have to use to create mappings.

If you want, as you would like, use Remote to control an Arturia VST from an Arturia Keyboard in Reason, you have to create the Remote Codec for your controller and a Map file, of course, but you also have to manually get each automatable parameter name from the VST itself (Or from the manual if you're lucky enough for it to include a parameter list, which exists in the case of Arturia VSTs), because, as far as I know, there's no Remote template file equivalent available for VSTs.

And even if there was one, the almost infinite number of existing VSTs would simply make having all of them to work with all the controllers impossible. Thus, it is even more an available software than an available hardware problem, and unless RS improves the VST device with some Remote-enabled mappable rotaries as I suggested, the only option you're left with if you want to benefit from all the huge advantages of Remote with VSTs is to create your own configuration.

Now, to refine a little bit your suggestion, what would certainly be extremely helpful is the creation of a collaborative website allowing users to post the complete parameter lists of the VSTs they've made Remote-able, just as Artotaku did for Reason devices.

You can get all the remote names for a device from Reason it self, File \ Export Device Remote Info

I have a database of about 3000+ files and I support the community mappings on the Nektar keyboards..

There is also this website that is trying to centralise mappings for Reason. http://www.reasonremoter.uk/

[Stygian Abyss]

You can get all the remote names for a device from Reason it self, File \ Export Device Remote Info

Yes, I know, but isn't that only valid for Reason devices ? I may not have understood correctly the tutorials I have read and watched, my experience is limited in this field, but if it is actually possible to obtain a file listing the Remote Items of hosted VSTs the same way, I will be glad to learn it !

I have a database of about 3000+ files and I support the community mappings on the Nektar keyboards.

Does this database include Remote Items lists for VST intruments and effects, as the number of files suggests it ? If so, that would be extremely helpful and I would certainly appreciate to have it, as I'm currently writing a Codec for my Graphite M25 controller, and the Map file is the next step.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

You can get all the remote names for a device from Reason it self, File \ Export Device Remote Info

Yes, I know, but isn't that only valid for Reason devices ? I may not have understood correctly the tutorials I have read and watched, my experience is limited in this field, but if it is actually possible to obtain a file listing the Remote Items of hosted VSTs the same way, I will be glad to learn it !

I have a database of about 3000+ files and I support the community mappings on the Nektar keyboards.

Does this database include Remote Items lists for VST intruments and effects, as the number of files suggests it ? If so, that would be extremely helpful and I would certainly appreciate to have it, as I'm currently writing a Codec for my Graphite M25 controller, and the Map file is the next step.

You can get the remote info for VST's as well..
Yes the db also has a large number of VST's in it.
These files are out of date but at least there is (a big) something to get started with, I will export the latest stuff when I get time, just nag me about it..
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6264u5zej9nz ... agDAa?dl=0

[Stygian Abyss]

You can get the remote info for VST's as well.

Excellent, that's far better than the tedious method explained in this tutorial. It's problably outdated.

Yes the db also has a large number of VST's in it.

Many thanks for it. If I find that some of the VSTs I own are not included in the database, would you like me to send you the Device Remote Info files ?

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Yes the db also has a large number of VST's in it.

Many thanks for it. If I find that some of the VSTs I own are not included in the database, would you like me to send you the Device Remote Info files ?

That would be nice, I have an upload location for them however I would wait until I get you the latest version to save you some time (it's no problem at my end as my upload process just ignores duplicates).

https://tinyurl.com/UploadRemoteMaps

[reddust]

Hey, would love to hear your Touché experience if you decide to buy. I've been considering that and/or a breath controller too.

I had a Touche SE around a year ago, I ended up selling it not because I couldn't use it with Reason but because it needed additional work due to the lack of software support.

The Touche SE comes with its own software designed to make things easy and assign CC to device controls by just drag and drop, but that didn't work with Reason so you always need to apply a combinator to get similar results and o course the additional tweaking of values in case you want to adjust sensibility i.e.

For me this kind of work keeps me from being creative and as I don't have much free time to spend creating music things like this can take my whole afternoon away and I am not able to continue until the next weekend comes, so I decided to sell it and search for alternatives to make my life easier and start creating faster instead of spending my time with setups

[Boombastix]

Hey, would love to hear your Touché experience if you decide to buy. I've been considering that and/or a breath controller too.

I had a Touche SE around a year ago, I ended up selling it not because I couldn't use it with Reason but because it needed additional work due to the lack of software support.

The Touche SE comes with its own software designed to make things easy and assign CC to device controls by just drag and drop, but that didn't work with Reason so you always need to apply a combinator to get similar results and o course the additional tweaking of values in case you want to adjust sensibility i.e.

For me this kind of work keeps me from being creative and as I don't have much free time to spend creating music things like this can take my whole afternoon away and I am not able to continue until the next weekend comes, so I decided to sell it and search for alternatives to make my life easier and start creating faster instead of spending my time with setups

So, the TEC breath is probably the way to go then. There is a free Reaktor assembly that would be cool to try, it is a virtual modeled kind, designed for breath control.

[Stygian Abyss]

Yes the db also has a large number of VST's in it.
These files are out of date but at least there is (a big) something to get started with, I will export the latest stuff when I get time, just nag me about it.

Carly, numerous useful VSTs and REs mappings are already in your "out of date" database, thank you. When an updated version will be available, you may post a link here, I'm subscribed to this thread.

I also want to say thank you for your video tutorials: all those I've watched have provided lots of valuable information that are a good addition to the written Reason docs.

[avasopht]

I had a similar experience with my Nektar Impact. It's a simple keyboard with a transport control, but it just does not work properly in Reason (some buttons are not properly mapped, and no matter how I mod the Remote file some functions don't work). But it works perfectly fine in Studio One.

That being said there are a few things Reason does much better like Drum Sequencer (just my opinion). There's even a thread on the Studio One forums to "Improve & enhance NoteFX to Reason-Players quality" - a reminder that the grass is always greener ...

[enossified]

I had a similar experience with my Nektar Impact. It's a simple keyboard with a transport control, but it just does not work properly in Reason

Have you contacted Nektar support? Out of the box integration with Reason (and other DAWs) is their big selling point. My Nektar Panorama works great with Reason, I just followed Nektar's installation guide and had no problems. Every time Reason comes out with a new version, new devices, etc. Nektar has updates available.

[Carly(Poohbear)]

Every time Reason comes out with a new version, new devices, etc. Nektar has updates available.

That is not true... but we do..



The PoohBear...

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Tips & Tutorial's viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7503909
PoohBears Reason Channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCqCNsA ... p4cQF4j-8A
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My Soundcloud Page ....... Nektar Mappings
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[Neo]

I agree with Frank for the most part and not just because im fan lol.

Shout out and respect from someone who still runs a (Melbourne Old Skool Ravers: 1990-2000) page on Facebook;
Ok, again I understand the business move targeting Ableton users. I would suggest users like myself just want to see Reason kick ass with 12. Anyway, back to social isolation and hoping for some news on the next release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPIv4SNTne0
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