Reason 11.2 is here!

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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Creativemind
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Post 25 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
24 Feb 2020
Creativemind wrote:
24 Feb 2020


Yeah that's what I mean, sure they could do that but why would they not do that before releasing the RRP as to have it at it's absolute best to showcase the RRP to non familiar Reason users? not to mention they haven't updated it since Reason 8 in 2016 so they obviously think it's finished.
not sure what you mean by “they obviously think it’s finished”. are you saying they’re never going to try to improve the browser ever again? I think it’s very doubtful that there’s anything in Reason that’s off the table for future changes.

I don’t think they had changed the browser before Reason 8 at least since I started using Reason 5, which was years earlier. they clearly hadn’t thought it was “finished”, since they eventually updated it. it’s only been four years since they updated the browser. it may be a while yet, but they’ll have to improve on it at some point.
There was no browser (I'm talking about the one now built into the sequencer with drag 'n' drop abilities) before Reason 8 as it was introduced in Reason 8. Also nearly 4 years lol!
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
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Creativemind
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Post 25 Feb 2020

QVprod wrote:
24 Feb 2020
Creativemind wrote:
24 Feb 2020


Yeah that's what I mean, sure they could do that but why would they not do that before releasing the RRP as to have it at it's absolute best to showcase the RRP to non familiar Reason users? not to mention they haven't updated it since Reason 8 in 2016 so they obviously think it's finished.
Yes it was a finished product for Reason 8. Doesn't mean they wont ever update it again. Browsers aren't exactly on the list of things that get updated often barring minor tweaks, and besides I don't think a new user would be confused by the current browser. Sure it could be improved, but it's not a dire situation.
I'm not saying new users would be confused but they'll probably discover some shortfalls in it like we all have pretty soon after or if they've used other daws.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
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stp2015
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Post 25 Feb 2020

MattiasHG wrote:
21 Feb 2020
Regardless of if it'll be a number 12 or not, we have tons of cool improvements for Reason in the pipeline. For example, we're hard at work on high-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics. Don't worry, we're not going anywhere.
Mattias, as you know there are many of us who were not too happy with Reason 11. However, much of that is due to a lack of information about whether or not you are working on some of the specific improvements the Reason DAW users have been asking for over the years. Because of that , a statement like the one above about the GUI can do so much for our peace of mind and for how we perceive the company.

Also, in my opinion general statements like "we are not abandoning the DAW" are not tangible and probably just too vague to achieve the same positive feeling. In fact, they might result in the opposite b/c they may just not be convincing. So sometimes you just have to be specific. Knowing that a HD GUI is coming is enough for me to keep investing in Reason, but before that statement I had serious doubts.

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Creativemind
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Yeah it's brilliant Mattias has given us feedback here. Much appreciated. Tons of cool improvements is exciting but like the above poster mentions, it does' t necassarily tell us if they will be core daw improvements.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 11.3 / Cockus Reaper 6.10 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Reasonable man
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Creativemind wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Yeah it's brilliant Mattias has given us feedback here. Much appreciated. Tons of cool improvements is exciting but like the above poster mentions, it does' t necassarily tell us if they will be core daw improvements.
Housekeeping. The sequencer/daw badly needs some housekeeping . A womens's touch if you will. It needs a woman to go in there amongnst all the smell of sweat, feet and ass and go ...'clean up lads' fix that browser , organise that sequencer , put this here and that there..sorted.

Someone will point out that so and and so many man hours fixing the sequencer dosn't equate to enough profit etc . I'd argue that that's nonesense ..it would probably lead to more sales than any reason vst product.
Reason needs new users not old guys comming back to upgrade once for a vst plugin and run back to their own daw ...never to be seen again.
if this forum is anything to go by ..new users are in decline . i remember when i first joined the forum there were so many 'new' users like me asking 'what this button does' or how 'to record this cv' etc etc. I rarely see any of that on this forum anymore ...nothing like it used to be .
Reason is messy , its too messy for a lot of people . Some workflow enhancements and its a different product .....for the better that is. :D

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Loque
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Reasonable man wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Creativemind wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Yeah it's brilliant Mattias has given us feedback here. Much appreciated. Tons of cool improvements is exciting but like the above poster mentions, it does' t necassarily tell us if they will be core daw improvements.
Housekeeping. The sequencer/daw badly needs some housekeeping . A womens's touch if you will. It needs a woman to go in there amongnst all the smell of sweat, feet and ass and go ...'clean up lads' fix that browser , organise that sequencer , put this here and that there..sorted.

Someone will point out that so and and so many man hours fixing the sequencer dosn't equate to enough profit etc . I'd argue that that's nonesense ..it would probably lead to more sales than any reason vst product.
Reason needs new users not old guys comming back to upgrade once for a vst plugin and run back to their own daw ...never to be seen again.
if this forum is anything to go by ..new users are in decline . i remember when i first joined the forum there were so many 'new' users like me asking 'what this button does' or how 'to record this cv' etc etc. I rarely see any of that on this forum anymore ...nothing like it used to be .
Reason is messy , its too messy for a lot of people . Some workflow enhancements and its a different product .....for the better that is. :D
I still see those questions coming, just a few days ago.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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guitfnky
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Creativemind wrote:
25 Feb 2020
guitfnky wrote:
24 Feb 2020


not sure what you mean by “they obviously think it’s finished”. are you saying they’re never going to try to improve the browser ever again? I think it’s very doubtful that there’s anything in Reason that’s off the table for future changes.

I don’t think they had changed the browser before Reason 8 at least since I started using Reason 5, which was years earlier. they clearly hadn’t thought it was “finished”, since they eventually updated it. it’s only been four years since they updated the browser. it may be a while yet, but they’ll have to improve on it at some point.
There was no browser (I'm talking about the one now built into the sequencer with drag 'n' drop abilities) before Reason 8 as it was introduced in Reason 8. Also nearly 4 years lol!
but there was a browser. it was just the Windows/IOS one. the point is, they obviously thought that how users found Reason devices and content needed to be changed, so they changed it. just because they've only done it once so far doesn't mean they will never improve on it again. it's not like asking them to updatea stock device that's been there since Reason 1, it's basic functionality that needs to keep pace with the rest of the DAW/plugin world. and of course it's not something they're going to update frequently--they shouldn't! could you imagine how confusing it would be if basic functionality kept getting changed every couple of versions?

MarzT
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Post 25 Feb 2020

chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Feb 2020
MarzT wrote:
24 Feb 2020


But Reaper has got vst3 working! https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php ... +Rack+11.2

Yeah exactly! Reaper has it working; it shows it can be done, when there's a will to do it from the developer. Hence my suggestion that we open up support tickets for our DAW of choice and let them know it's something they need to fix. Hopefully it'll just be a case of being patient while all the DAWs get up to speed with this.
here's my video showing how in Reaper v 6.04, I even got Reason 11.2 vst3 midi out to control internal controls in FL studio, imported as a vsti plugin version in the same track:

https://youtu.be/CZfRzj6g-Vo

danc
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Post 25 Feb 2020

MarzT wrote:
25 Feb 2020
chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Feb 2020


Yeah exactly! Reaper has it working; it shows it can be done, when there's a will to do it from the developer. Hence my suggestion that we open up support tickets for our DAW of choice and let them know it's something they need to fix. Hopefully it'll just be a case of being patient while all the DAWs get up to speed with this.
here's my video showing how in Reaper v 6.04, I even got Reason 11.2 vst3 midi out to control internal controls in FL studio, imported as a vsti plugin version in the same track:

https://youtu.be/CZfRzj6g-Vo
I have an OPEN ticket with Presonus to help get MIDI CC working from the Reason Rack plugin into Studio One. A similar ticket sits with Reason Studios to see their take on S1 issue. Midi notes work - but no CC is received.

I am especially wanting CC to work so that I can control my S1 VSTs with super dense LFOs using the Kron CV rack extension. Kron CV has the most overly complicated GUI known to mankind, by a factor of about 1,000,000... Yet, once you learn it (if that is actually possible??! - even the developer of the device seems to be totally baffled how it works in his tutorial videos!) ... Anyway - that's for another thread... but I am looking forward to LFO madness from Reason to S1 as soon as possible!
Creating, producing and mastering music in Reason 11 and Studio One 4.5 (WIndows).


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ShelLuser
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Post 25 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Creativemind wrote:
25 Feb 2020
There was no browser (I'm talking about the one now built into the sequencer with drag 'n' drop abilities) before Reason 8 as it was introduced in Reason 8. Also nearly 4 years lol!
but there was a browser. it was just the Windows/IOS one. the point is, they obviously thought that how users found Reason devices and content needed to be changed, so they changed it.
Errr, no? Reason 4 had a browser which listed all the instruments, audio effects and tools just like the current one does. The main difference between then and now is that it was a pop-up window which you had to call up to use it, I think you had to press F5 or F6 or something to make that work.
--- :reason:
Using the 'Power' Trio: Live 10 Suite (+ Push & Max 8 ), Reason 10 and Maschine Mk3 (+ the ultimate Komplete 12).
Blog: SynthFan (under heavy construction!)

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guitfnky
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Post 25 Feb 2020

ShelLuser wrote:
25 Feb 2020
guitfnky wrote:
25 Feb 2020

but there was a browser. it was just the Windows/IOS one. the point is, they obviously thought that how users found Reason devices and content needed to be changed, so they changed it.
Errr, no? Reason 4 had a browser which listed all the instruments, audio effects and tools just like the current one does. The main difference between then and now is that it was a pop-up window which you had to call up to use it, I think you had to press F5 or F6 or something to make that work.
okay, well as I said, I started in v5, so I don’t know what was in v4, but regardless, it doesn’t change the fundamental point. they make updates to base functionality when they think it’s necessary.

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Faastwalker
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Not much love for the Reason sequencer. I think it's great! I've used tons of DAWs over 20+ years. I've definitely had the most time with Reason. But I couldn't honestly say that Reason's sequencer is any better or worse than anything else I've used. Just works fine for me. Maybe it's more to do with familiarity. The automation is sublime.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Faastwalker wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Not much love for the Reason sequencer. I think it's great! I've used tons of DAWs over 20+ years. I've definitely had the most time with Reason. But I couldn't honestly say that Reason's sequencer is any better or worse than anything else I've used. Just works fine for me. Maybe it's more to do with familiarity. The automation is sublime.
Yeah I get that there's room for improvement but it's definitely not unusable. Some minor gripes, like;

* Overlapping note-off cancels subsequent note-on
* No MIDI preview on note nudge with arrows
* No MIDI chase
* No folders

Beyond that...I can't say there's a lot more I'm desperate for. I've seen requests for FL style tools like chord stamping and rhythm/phrase tools but I've spent the last month on and off trying to make sense of that program and I do not like it :lol: I'm quite happy to have some of the more specialist tools in Players (can always print to MIDI). Maybe a dedicated step sequencer would be nice.

Audio wise, different story. I think it does what it needs to do for writing. But I wouldn't use it to do multi-track recording without group/folder editing of audio warping. That would require some big changes that I think are outside the scope of what Reason was ever intended to be, IMHO! But if you're laying down vocals, guitar tracks, recording synths, it's more than adequate as it is. Again, IMO.

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chimp_spanner
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Post 25 Feb 2020

Small update re: Studio One, after explaining the problem to the support staff;

Hello Paul,

You may be onto something there, and we aren't sure if that may change in the future. If Propellerheads has any concern about that they should contact our developers directly as we here in tech support don't have the Reason plugin to test.

Thanks,


So they see that there's a problem but sliiiightly passing the buck but then I guess this wasn't an issue until RRP came out. But this won't be the only plugin that encounters this problem. So I think it's just a case of enough users creating a ticket for it and I guess uhh...we can donate some cash for them to buy Reason to test :lol: (joking)

danc
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Post 25 Feb 2020

chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Small update re: Studio One, after explaining the problem to the support staff;

Hello Paul,

You may be onto something there, and we aren't sure if that may change in the future. If Propellerheads has any concern about that they should contact our developers directly as we here in tech support don't have the Reason plugin to test.

Thanks,


So they see that there's a problem but sliiiightly passing the buck. So I think it's just a case of enough users creating a ticket for it and I guess uhh...we can donate some cash for them to buy Reason to test :lol: (joking)
The VST 3 MIDI CC issue in S1 isn't exclusively a problem with Reason Rack... it's a problem in all VST3's in S1... look here: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 7&t=540109

UPDATE: Which no doubt you have.. as you are posting on that forum. I tried some VST2 wrappers and couldn't get it to work that way either.
Creating, producing and mastering music in Reason 11 and Studio One 4.5 (WIndows).


danc
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Post 26 Feb 2020

danc wrote:
25 Feb 2020
chimp_spanner wrote:
25 Feb 2020
Small update re: Studio One, after explaining the problem to the support staff;

Hello Paul,

You may be onto something there, and we aren't sure if that may change in the future. If Propellerheads has any concern about that they should contact our developers directly as we here in tech support don't have the Reason plugin to test.

Thanks,


So they see that there's a problem but sliiiightly passing the buck. So I think it's just a case of enough users creating a ticket for it and I guess uhh...we can donate some cash for them to buy Reason to test :lol: (joking)
The VST 3 MIDI CC issue in S1 isn't exclusively a problem with Reason Rack... it's a problem in all VST3's in S1... look here: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... 7&t=540109

UPDATE: Which no doubt you have.. as you are posting on that forum. I tried some VST2 wrappers and couldn't get it to work that way either.
I've had two responses back from Presonus now on this subject.

They confirmed that a number of people have raised this problem with them - regarding the Reason Rack plugin.

In their first message they said that Reason Studios would need to contact them and send them the plugin to help resolve the issue.

A second mail arrived from them that confirms that they have now escalated the issue. They've passed the problem onto their QA team to test/confirm and that they will then follow up resolution from there.

Fingers crossed.

Whereas... Reason Studios have not even responded to my support ticket yet - I contacted them a day earlier than Presonus. I know it's not a pissing contest between the 2 companies on who has better support... but receiving NO support isn't acceptable.
Creating, producing and mastering music in Reason 11 and Studio One 4.5 (WIndows).


Ad0
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Post 26 Feb 2020

Yeah maybe it's missing implementation of LegacyMIDICCOutEvent.

danc
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Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 26 Feb 2020

Ad0 wrote:
26 Feb 2020
Yeah maybe it's missing implementation of LegacyMIDICCOutEvent.
I had a very short response from REASON STUDIOS regarding my ticket.

They said... nothing to do with us... talk to PRESONUS.

It's a good job Presonus are taking it seriously - but they said they need REASON STUDIOS to give them a NFR version of Reason so that they can test the Reason Rack. Good luck Presonus... you might get a response on this request.
Creating, producing and mastering music in Reason 11 and Studio One 4.5 (WIndows).


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chimp_spanner
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Post 26 Feb 2020

danc wrote:
26 Feb 2020
Ad0 wrote:
26 Feb 2020
Yeah maybe it's missing implementation of LegacyMIDICCOutEvent.
I had a very short response from REASON STUDIOS regarding my ticket.

They said... nothing to do with us... talk to PRESONUS.

It's a good job Presonus are taking it seriously - but they said they need REASON STUDIOS to give them a NFR version of Reason so that they can test the Reason Rack. Good luck Presonus... you might get a response on this request.
Is that a summary of their reply, or the actual reply? I think it's fair/accurate to say that RRP's implementation of VST3 is correct, and the onus is on the host/DAW developer to add this legacy functionality. But of course it would speed things up if Presonus had the software to test with in the first place. Still potentially good news that the case has been escalated!

danc
Posts: 446
Joined: 14 Oct 2016

Post 26 Feb 2020

chimp_spanner wrote:
26 Feb 2020
danc wrote:
26 Feb 2020


I had a very short response from REASON STUDIOS regarding my ticket.

They said... nothing to do with us... talk to PRESONUS.

It's a good job Presonus are taking it seriously - but they said they need REASON STUDIOS to give them a NFR version of Reason so that they can test the Reason Rack. Good luck Presonus... you might get a response on this request.
Is that a summary of their reply, or the actual reply? I think it's fair/accurate to say that RRP's implementation of VST3 is correct, and the onus is on the host/DAW developer to add this legacy functionality. But of course it would speed things up if Presonus had the software to test with in the first place. Still potentially good news that the case has been escalated!
Their words were...

Code: Select all

Hi Dan,

I'm not sure if Studio One has implemented sending MIDI CC from VST3 plugins (which Reason Rack Plugin is).
Please, check with PreSonus.

Best regards,
Fredrik
Creating, producing and mastering music in Reason 11 and Studio One 4.5 (WIndows).


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chimp_spanner
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Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 26 Feb 2020

Sounds reasonable (heh) to me. I guess really it's just down to a lack of communication of the nature of the issue. The R11.2 announcement would've fallen a bit flat with PC users if it came with the caveat that CC out won't work for them in VST without a host update. But still, people should know.

The solution is known. Cockos have managed to do it, and it works in Cubase. I don't know to what extent PreSonus having a copy of RRP would help, but it's not like it's a problem specific to that plugin. Steinberg re-enabled CC out some time ago. It should be supported now, not just for RRP but for any new wave of MIDI out VST3 plugins.

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buddard
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Post 26 Feb 2020

The LegacyMIDICCOutEvent was added in VST3 SDK 3.6.12, which was released in December 2018, i e more than a year ago. So it's not as if DAW developers haven't had time to update their hosts to support this... Reason Studios can hardly be blamed for this.

I think it's especially surprising that Ableton Live doesn't support it, since they released the first version supporting VST3 in May 2019, quite a long time after this event type was introduced.

supalurker
Posts: 7
Joined: 10 Jan 2016

Post 26 Feb 2020

MattiasHG wrote:
21 Feb 2020
Regardless of if it'll be a number 12 or not, we have tons of cool improvements for Reason in the pipeline. For example, we're hard at work on high-resolution, GPU accelerated graphics. Don't worry, we're not going anywhere.
This is literally the only thing I have ever wanted for years... :shock:

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EnochLight
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Post 26 Feb 2020

danc wrote:
26 Feb 2020
I had a very short response from REASON STUDIOS regarding my ticket.

They said... nothing to do with us... talk to PRESONUS.
danc wrote:
26 Feb 2020
Their words were...

Code: Select all

Hi Dan,

I'm not sure if Studio One has implemented sending MIDI CC from VST3 plugins (which Reason Rack Plugin is).
Please, check with PreSonus.

Best regards,
Fredrik
buddard wrote:
26 Feb 2020
The LegacyMIDICCOutEvent was added in VST3 SDK 3.6.12, which was released in December 2018, i e more than a year ago. So it's not as if DAW developers haven't had time to update their hosts to support this... Reason Studios can hardly be blamed for this.

I think it's especially surprising that Ableton Live doesn't support it, since they released the first version supporting VST3 in May 2019, quite a long time after this event type was introduced.
I'm in agreement with buddard. Clearly Reason Studios can't be held responsible for correctly implementing RRP as a VST3. PreSonus has had since December 2018 to include this, yet they never did. Great to see there's some movement on it, and it's clear that RRP users reaching out to PreSonus has helped. Let's hope we don't have to wait until 4.7 or later...
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

2chris
Posts: 34
Joined: 15 Mar 2019

Post 04 Mar 2020

Reason Studios are bringing the fire now. If they work on the UI like was mentioned by Mattias, update the sequencer/workflow stuff more over time, and keep dropping these cool player devices and weird FX units - they are going to shake up the landscape. I'm looking forward to using the rack in Live once I update, but UI tweaks and more goodies coming will keep me working on the DAW side too. Good job Reason Studios.

I was really impressed you guys took all that extra time and fixed 10's VST performance. That was a class move, and I've been happily using 10 still and looking forward to getting suite later this year.

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