Reason 11.2 is here!

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miscend
Posts: 1955
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

20 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
20 Feb 2020
This is the 7th stock device that they haven't produced themselves ( the others being QNG, the two SOftube Amps and the three Soundiron REs)
Have you thought that outsourcing development probably gives their devs more time to work on DAW features? Most other DAWs (Ableton, Logic, Cubase) have used outsourced external contractors for their stock devices. In the case of Logic, usually these contractors are under NDA so they can't talk publicly about it.

kitekrazy
Posts: 1036
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

20 Feb 2020

Karim wrote:
20 Feb 2020
fretshot7 wrote:
20 Feb 2020
gotta say im not tempted to upgrade from v10 :shock:
neither do I :cry:
For me it's a break from the $129 upgrade price.

Rackman
Posts: 110
Joined: 28 Dec 2019

20 Feb 2020

What DAW features?
miscend wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Proboscis wrote:
20 Feb 2020
This is the 7th stock device that they haven't produced themselves ( the others being QNG, the two SOftube Amps and the three Soundiron REs)
Have you thought that outsourcing development probably gives their devs more time to work on DAW features? Most other DAWs (Ableton, Logic, Cubase) have used outsourced external contractors for their stock devices. In the case of Logic, usually these contractors are under NDA so they can't talk publicly about it.

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aeox
Competition Winner
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Location: Oregon

20 Feb 2020

Rackman wrote:
20 Feb 2020
What DAW features?
miscend wrote:
20 Feb 2020


Have you thought that outsourcing development probably gives their devs more time to work on DAW features? Most other DAWs (Ableton, Logic, Cubase) have used outsourced external contractors for their stock devices. In the case of Logic, usually these contractors are under NDA so they can't talk publicly about it.
The ones they are working on. Like Mattias said, they've got lots of stuff in the works

PhillipOrdonez
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20 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
20 Feb 2020
miscend wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Is the £62.00 selling price for Beat Map player meant to be some sort of joke?
It's all a part of the steaming pile of bullshit that can be expected from a new Reason release. "Look how great we are, giving you all a $69 device".

Meanwhile, the sequencer remains in the stone age compared to other DAWS, and it appears Reason Studios aren't even developing anymore, instead outsourcing it. This is not the first time it's happened. This is the 7th stock device that they haven't produced themselves ( the others being QNG, the two SOftube Amps and the three Soundiron REs)

Bring on V12, so I can pay my exit tax, obtain the Reason VST and be done with this shady crowd forever. I've had enough of their crap, and their blowing in to social media to say "oh woo go us, look at this new thing', whole ignoring the long list of workflow critical fixes/additions. Reason Studios staff are the polar opposite of Cakewalk's crew, who actively address users issues, and roll out updates/features/fixes every month, based on user feedback. What do RS do ? Almost nothing... but guy's .. SHINY NEW SHIT NOBODY ASKED FOR !
I can't wait either! When V12 comes the best feature will be your absence from this forum 😂

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TheGodOfRainbows
Posts: 640
Joined: 31 Mar 2015

20 Feb 2020

MattiasHG wrote:
20 Feb 2020
EdGrip wrote:
20 Feb 2020


gasp!
Hahaha, sometimes I really think I should post less and not more—anything can be interpreted as controversial! :lol:
Wait....WHAT!? IF there is a Reason 12? Yeah, that could be interpreted as the end of all life and joy as we know it! I can't believe this comment hasn't set the forum on fire! That's a pretty provocative statement - IF there is a Reason 12.

I can only assume this is NOT a bombshell admission that Reason Studios is packing up, turning off the lights and closing shop after Reason 11, and releasing the Reason code as open source as a final goodbye.

So, this MUST be a clue that Reason will no longer be called Reason in the future, and will be renamed to something else (and possibly a whole new engine coded from the ground up), right?

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TheGodOfRainbows
Posts: 640
Joined: 31 Mar 2015

20 Feb 2020

joeyluck wrote:
20 Feb 2020
LittleBoy wrote:
20 Feb 2020
A new player that nobody had asked for and that is designed for people who don't know how to program rhythms - YES
I've never understood the attack on player devices and those who use them.

Stop using arpeggiators. Stop editing in the sequencer—learn to play correctly and play exactly what you intended to play from your MIDI keyboard the first time. Stop quantizing. Stop using LFOs to modulate things and instead assign MIDI knobs and record automation for the whole song. Use a real piano. Play real drums. Stop using software altogether.
LOL Yes! Well said sir. I've always gotten along with programming drums on my own, but I still think these devices are very cool and fun. These poor players just want to help. They never hurt anybody.

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raymondh
Posts: 1776
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

20 Feb 2020

TheGodOfRainbows wrote:
20 Feb 2020
MattiasHG wrote:
20 Feb 2020


Hahaha, sometimes I really think I should post less and not more—anything can be interpreted as controversial! :lol:
Wait....WHAT!? IF there is a Reason 12? Yeah, that could be interpreted as the end of all life and joy as we know it! I can't believe this comment hasn't set the forum on fire! That's a pretty provocative statement - IF there is a Reason 12.

I can only assume this is NOT a bombshell admission that Reason Studios is packing up, turning off the lights and closing shop after Reason 11, and releasing the Reason code as open source as a final goodbye.

So, this MUST be a clue that Reason will no longer be called Reason in the future, and will be renamed to something else (and possibly a whole new engine coded from the ground up), right?
I think the intent behind his comment was - "don't wait for Reason 12, upgrade now!"

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Jagwah
Posts: 2549
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

20 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Meanwhile, the sequencer remains in the stone age compared to other DAWS, and it appears Reason Studios aren't even developing anymore, instead outsourcing it
When it comes to RS - outsourcing is a good thing isn't it? I'm going to take a wild guess based on Prop's comments and general history in general and say that Props spend a real lot of time pondering, arguing, deciding, thinking, debating, choosing, guessing, and finally signing off on what is the next feature to be implemented and how best to implement it - if they then had to turn around and get to coding it wouldn't be as fast as outsourcing would it? Also, isn't this kind of what we want, Props doing more of their thing more often instead of taking a longer time to do it? Robotic Bean is a great dev and there are more from RE land that could be given coding work, I think it's a good step in a good direction.

Surely updates to the sequencer are going to be the next big thing we see in Reason.

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Dogcat
Posts: 29
Joined: 21 Sep 2019

20 Feb 2020

joeyluck wrote:
20 Feb 2020


I've never understood the attack on player devices and those who use them.

Stop using arpeggiators. Stop editing in the sequencer—learn to play correctly and play exactly what you intended to play from your MIDI keyboard the first time. Stop quantizing. Stop using LFOs to modulate things and instead assign MIDI knobs and record automation for the whole song. Use a real piano. Play real drums. Stop using software altogether.
Stop using EQ... just sing/play using the correct frequencies, and stop compressing... just sing/play with the correct dynamics, dammit!!

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ShelLuser
Posts: 358
Joined: 25 Aug 2019

20 Feb 2020

So I figured I'd give this a try as well. Although my first impressions of the Reason rack plugin weren't that great I always try to keep an open mind, especially when new developments happen. After all, things don't have to stay bad and even if they do you might still end up learning a few new things... maybe stuff could even surprise you? And since I have an 11 license, I figured why not?


First impressions are quite nice. They finally added support for the <tab> key so that you can flip the rack around, this makes working with the plugin a lot less mediocre than it was. Although I don't necessarily like the wide browser (I usually keep the left side collapsed so that you only see the icons) I also don't think it's a problem; a quick double click is enough to hide the section again, although it would have been nice if there was some kind of hotkey which you could use to show/hide the browser (maybe there is one but I haven't found it).

In a way this reminds me of Reason 4 which was also a single rack. All in all this is definitely more enjoyable than the first rack VST release.

However it's definitely not perfect. For example: all instruments which are placed in the rack get triggered by incoming MIDI, and sometimes that's not what you want. After all; they added 'gate' and 'cv' inputs for a reason... Thor allows you to turn the trigger off but most other instruments don't provide this functionality. You can solve this though by using a Combinator and then simply turning off the devices in there, but... if you want to apply some more advanced signal processing this also means that you'll need to rely on external routing, which can get a bit messy.

Especially because you only have one rack. This is probably the one function I miss the most: you still can't place devices side by side anymore, which is an awesome way to make small 'sections' within a larger setup; it helps you to keep a good overview of things. Which means that working on more complex patches can easily become quite a chore. Once again you could rely on Combinators, but... I'm not exactly fond of having to break those open (= external routing).

And then there's the automation... this is definitely not good. When I use, say, Kontakt (I do a lot with Straylight) then I get to see the names of the parameters I assign within Live. For example: "G Lay Vol - Stray" and "S Lay Vol - Stray"; these refer to the volume of the Grain and Sample layers within Straylight.

When I try to map controls with the Reason rack plugin I only get obscure names like "Param 1219" or "Param 1008". One was a control from Thor and the other from Europa, but how the heck am I supposed to remember which does what?

So all in all I don't think the rack is very useful for complex setups.

Still... it's not all bad. The last time I tried the rack I also immediately deinstalled Reason 11 shortly after, that's not going to happen this time.

For example... I have Grain loaded, I reset the device and then I select a sample from my Live browser. I drag and drop the sample from Live into Grain and what do you know? It gets loaded! That's useful!

And although I'm definitely missing my audio channels and the mixer section I can still appreciate the new channel devices (dynamics, EQ & the master bus compressor). Sure, it's not the same, but it does manage to make up for "lost" functionality in my opinion, it's pretty well made. And well... there's always the line mixer and 14:2 mixer... No sarcasm, I'm quite serious. When I use Reason rewired into Live I mainly rely on a Combinator which has the 6:2 line mixer loaded, despite the fact that I really admire the mixer section and use it quite often as well (I love the fact that I can detach it and place it on my 2nd monitor).

Finally we have the rack extensions... The Rack VST definitely makes it easier to do some simple experimentations with devices such as the modular oscillators from Jiggery Pokery. That's quite good stuff!

All in all I still don't consider the rack to be a proper replacement for Reason stand alone, let alone Reason rewired into Live. Far from it even. But I definitely think that they're heading in the right direction here where basic functionality is concerned.


Finally... I'm well aware some people hope to get VST support within the rack but seriously... beware what you ask for.

Loading VST's within another VST may sound nice and all, depending on your DAW it could have quite some drastic results. Definitely don't expect to work on complex setups "just like that" (once again: depending on the DAW and the overal setup of course...).

Problem here is resource management. Simply put: your DAW gets allocated resources from the OS it runs on; it can usually access multiple CPU cores and plenty of memory. A VST within that DAW otoh has to rely on whatever the DAW provides it with, and obviously it won't give unrestricted access to all available resources because you don't want to risk your DAW becoming unresponsive as soon as the VST runs into problems; the DAW has to maintain control at all times.

So if you then run a VST within that VST it will get even less resources than the original VST, and depending on what you're planning to do that could easily become an issue when you're working on complex projects. This is also one of the reasons why I favor the setup of using Reason in a stand alone fashion (so it gets its resources assigned from the OS) but "linked" to Live through Rewire. This allows you to set up plenty of complex stuff within Reason and it won't become too much of a problem where load is concerned.

I base this conclusion on my experiences with using Maschine within Live. Maschine can use VST's despite it being used stand alone or within a DAW, and generally speaking this works quite well. But as soon as you start to use more complex or more resource hungry setups (Kontakt with Straylight, Thrill or maybe even the Symphony series) then you can easily run into issues.

Sure, I still use VST's within Maschine, but as soon as things become more complex I move all that stuff to a dedicated Live track. And that clearly helps to reduce the load here and there.

Alas... bedtime for me, thanks for reading :)
--- :reason:

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fieldframe
RE Developer
Posts: 1037
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

20 Feb 2020

This is a lot of fun to experiment with. I'd love to get a better sense of what the map actually means: I see the contours fading in and out with the density knobs, but what do their shapes and proximity represent?

I also have a feature suggestion: Auto-solo.

Auto-solo would set a threshold for density, beyond which all other channels are muted. So if the user set auto-solo at 75%, dialing the snare up past that would mute the kick, hat, and perc channels. Doing this live naturally creates fills!

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xboix
Posts: 281
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

21 Feb 2020

Proboscis wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Bring on V12, so I can pay my exit tax, obtain the Reason VST and be done with this shady crowd forever.
Wow! So you are going to spend another couple of years being bitter and unhappy?
Wow. Just wow. :lol:

madmacman
Posts: 786
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

21 Feb 2020

miscend wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Yes it seems quite steep for what looks like a very useful utility device. I think its priced to discourage people from buying it on its own. Even if you were super determined to continue using R10, buying the upgrade or the suite makes much more sense, and then using the new devices inside R10 since they are compatible with prior Reason releases.
Be careful: if I understand Mattias correctly, the standard devices are integrated part of the Reason core app. While it seems possible to use the Suite (because they simply add the RE licenses to your account), this doesn’t work with stock devices (SSL) or Players. If you upgrade, then you are probably forced to actually use the R11 in order to get the new toys.

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Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11175
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

21 Feb 2020

xboix wrote:
21 Feb 2020
Proboscis wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Bring on V12, so I can pay my exit tax, obtain the Reason VST and be done with this shady crowd forever.
Wow! So you are going to spend another couple of years being bitter and unhappy?
Wow. Just wow. :lol:
ezgif.com-optimize.gif
ezgif.com-optimize.gif (666.01 KiB) Viewed 4261 times
Reason12, Win10

Yonatan
Posts: 1556
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

21 Feb 2020

Loque wrote:
21 Feb 2020
xboix wrote:
21 Feb 2020


Wow! So you are going to spend another couple of years being bitter and unhappy?
Wow. Just wow. :lol:
ezgif.com-optimize.gif
Hilarious pic :)

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ljekio
Posts: 962
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

21 Feb 2020

buddard wrote:
20 Feb 2020
ljekio wrote:
20 Feb 2020
New player is great (Buddard, how about half/normal/double tempo switch?), but this upgrade not for me again.
You can set the rate from 1/4 up to 1/64. :)
Is this the same thing I wrote about?
For example, now it default 1/64 and this means that the minimum possible step will be 1/64. This means that you can’t do it 2 times faster.
Further, if I lower by 1/32 will it be half tempo? So far, in order to stretch or squeeze the pattern I like, I need to bounce it into notes and stretch / compress in the sequencer. Although I do not quite understand the rhythm selection algorithm and may be wrong.

p.s. sorry, 1/16 instead 1/64, my bad.

Ad0
Posts: 101
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

21 Feb 2020

Crumbfort wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Hmm, I'm using Reaper and the Rack plugin is just simply not sending CC messages out. Everything is hooked up properly in the plugin instance, and the MIDI out module shows the CV activity, but no dice.
Yeah seems like CC is simply not getting out. You can try sticking a CC generator in the FX chain where reason plugin is and see if that outputs something to be sure.

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LudvigC
Reason Studios
Posts: 93
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

21 Feb 2020

Catblack wrote:
20 Feb 2020
buddard wrote:
20 Feb 2020


No code from Mutable Instruments was used in the making of Beat Map.
Although there certainly are some functional similarities between the devices on the surface, they use completely different approaches.
Thanks for that clarification! You can understand how one could think that though.
Absolutely! We were inspired by Grids when we started sketching out the design, but then we found that we wanted it to work in a different way.

/ LudvigC (product designer)

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

21 Feb 2020

I'm trying to use Xfer's LFO tool to see if that works instead but I'm not sure I'm setting it up properly. I've made Massive. I've created an LFO Tool, and set Massive's MIDI input to LFO Tool, and then set that to output CC. Hit play so the LFO is moving and engaged MIDI learn in Massive. Nothing's happening. Is that even the right way to do it?

It definitely works in Cubase, no issues. But I've also got Studio One 4 Pro here as well. Also FL Studio 20. So it'd be good to get as much information as we can across multiple DAWs to establish which ones even allow CC control between plugins.

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LudvigC
Reason Studios
Posts: 93
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

21 Feb 2020

manisnotabird wrote:
20 Feb 2020
Do the features on the topographical map have any relationship to the drum groove created, or are they totally arbitrary eye candy?
No relationship to the drum grooves. Serves as a way to orient yourself ("I like the kick beat around that hill there") but yeah, pretty much eye candy!

/ LudvigC

JonJ
Posts: 10
Joined: 21 Mar 2019

21 Feb 2020

(Not) Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that theres an issue with midi CC. Note info works a treat driving other plugins but although device shows midi cc out being generated it doesn't result in changing value of assigned parameter. Is this really a known bug or my stupidity?? Shame as ability to use Reason Players and sequencers to drive plugins in another host DAW is rather satisfying. All my saved sequences etc. have been resurrected.

Just seen posts above - Daw in this case is Tracktion.
Reason 11, i7 8700 W10 PC, 16GB Ram, 240GB SSD, 2TB Hard Drive , RME Digiface, 4xAD8200, 3xArturia Origin, Virus TI2, Drumbrute, 2xNyborg, Touch Digital Controller, C15 and Moog Siren

Ad0
Posts: 101
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

21 Feb 2020

JonJ wrote:
21 Feb 2020
(Not) Glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that theres an issue with midi CC. Note info works a treat driving other plugins but although device shows midi cc out being generated it doesn't result in changing value of assigned parameter. Is this really a known bug or my stupidity?? Shame as ability to use Reason Players and sequencers to drive plugins in another host DAW is rather satisfying. All my saved sequences etc. have been resurrected.
Try to find another plugin that generates CC and compare. I will as fast as I get home from work.

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geronimo
Posts: 627
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: France

21 Feb 2020

Always ReasonRack mono version don't work in MOTU Digital Performer 10 (AU version) ! :(

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

21 Feb 2020

Edited as I think this is a VST 2 vs 3 thing. LFO Tool works because it’s VST2. From what I can gather this is a shortcoming of the current implementation of VST3. But i can’t say anything definitely has it’s beyond my knowledge!!
Last edited by chimp_spanner on 21 Feb 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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