How would you rate Reason in its current state?

[orthodox]

But if someone hate Reason (no trolls so far) , think it is horrible or that it is absolutely perfect (nothing is) then it is based on some strong bias against or to defend something fanatically.
Reason 11 is a lot for many but never horrible or perfect.

That's your opinion, which is just as objective as a vote you cast. I think people are entitled to speak of their ratings without being declared marginals or trolls. What Reason really is is another question.

[Yonatan]

But if someone hate Reason (no trolls so far) , think it is horrible or that it is absolutely perfect (nothing is) then it is based on some strong bias against or to defend something fanatically.
Reason 11 is a lot for many but never horrible or perfect.

That's your opinion, which is just as objective as a vote you cast. I think people are entitled to speak of their ratings without being declared marginals or trolls. What Reason really is is another question.

Off course it is my opinion. Still think it is far from truth to say R11 is either perfect or horrible. I mean, it is objectively not perfect. That needs no arguments. And I it is objectively not a horrible DAW. Opinions are free as a bird, but that does not make them any more sane.
Why being on a Reason forum and hate Reason? Then some kind of trolling is there, maybe not organized, but a trolling mindset (project ones bad mood onto outer things).

Rating R11 as 10/10 brings no negativity, but it is still a strange biased vote. So that user will never ever need anything improved in Reason, because it is Absolutely perfect? Dont believe it.

[orthodox]

Still think it is far from truth to say R11 is either perfect or horrible. I mean, it is objectively not perfect. That needs no arguments. And I it is objectively not a horrible DAW.

I don't think there can be objective truth here. The ground truth is how people rate it. I for one would not invoke some 'objective' identity to help me cast my vote, but base it on my own experience.

Rating R11 as 10/10 brings no negativity, but it is still a strange biased vote. So that user will never ever need anything improved in Reason, because it is Absolutely perfect? Dont believe it.

I would suppose it is absolutely perfect for them.

[Yonatan]

Still think it is far from truth to say R11 is either perfect or horrible. I mean, it is objectively not perfect. That needs no arguments. And I it is objectively not a horrible DAW.

I don't think there can be objective truth here. The ground truth is how people rate it. I for one would not invoke some 'objective' identity to help me cast my vote, but base it on my own experience.

Rating R11 as 10/10 brings no negativity, but it is still a strange biased vote. So that user will never ever need anything improved in Reason, because it is Absolutely perfect? Dont believe it.

I would suppose it is absolutely perfect for them.

You are totally right in that nothing in a poll like this is objectively true. But that does not mean there is nothing in it that can not be objectively false. There are always extreme points and quite often those are objectively false, without making the opinions inbetween being objective, but they are closer to being balanced (mixed with nuances) than the extremes are. That is why I rule out the extremes to being false but would never say that any of the other numbers is objectively true, because they cannot be. But now we have stepped into some kind of meta-philosophy. If voting by affect, then extremes might be legit in the moment one feels that Reason 11 is horrible (because maybe the computer gets a crash), but as emotional moods and reactions steadily changes throughout the day and week etc, that will become less objective anyway.

[chimp_spanner]

For me, personally, Reason is almost there. I was doing all my best (paid) work in it before VST was even an option, with Cubase installed on the same machine and for various reasons, I always went for orange over red

I'm literally waiting for about six things;

Folders
Browser improvements
Better sample handling (bpm detection/definition/slicing, send sample directly to sampler)
Sequencer tweaks (hear notes on arrow nudge, legato to end of note clip, )
Mixer improvements (dark mode, channel hiding)
Auto order devices when moving tracks in any of the three views

I'd also add native video support and a Combi II if we're in wishlist territory, plus a handful of other ideas I've had like tape mode time stretch algorithm, auto-create outputs on multi-out devices, fix behaviour of legato notes with ReGroove/shuffle applied, etc. but the six listed above would pretty much make Reason perfect for me.

[guitfnky]

Still think it is far from truth to say R11 is either perfect or horrible. I mean, it is objectively not perfect. That needs no arguments. And I it is objectively not a horrible DAW.

I don't think there can be objective truth here. The ground truth is how people rate it. I for one would not invoke some 'objective' identity to help me cast my vote, but base it on my own experience.

Rating R11 as 10/10 brings no negativity, but it is still a strange biased vote. So that user will never ever need anything improved in Reason, because it is Absolutely perfect? Dont believe it.

I would suppose it is absolutely perfect for them.

nothing is objectively perfect for everyone, therefore, nothing can be objectively perfect.

BUT, I have to agree that products can be subjectively perfect for a given individual. and since the question is about individual user opinions, it’s absolutely understandable (even expected) that some users would rate it as perfect for what they do.

the bottom line is, calling out people’s opinions/ratings for being somehow inaccurate is kind of a waste of time and energy.

so I guess that’s my roundabout way of endorsing your response.

[Yonatan]

For me, personally, Reason is almost there. I was doing all my best (paid) work in it before VST was even an option, with Cubase installed on the same machine and for various reasons, I always went for orange over red

I'm literally waiting for about six things;

Folders
Browser improvements
Better sample handling (bpm detection/definition/slicing, send sample directly to sampler)
Sequencer tweaks (hear notes on arrow nudge, legato to end of note clip, )
Mixer improvements (dark mode, channel hiding)
Auto order devices when moving tracks in any of the three views

I'd also add native video support and a Combi II if we're in wishlist territory, plus a handful of other ideas I've had like tape mode time stretch algorithm, auto-create outputs on multi-out devices, fix behaviour of legato notes with ReGroove/shuffle applied, etc. but the six listed above would pretty much make Reason perfect for me.

This is a great list of features. It better make it to the wall of RS headquarters room where they have their "fika".

[Yonatan]

I don't think there can be objective truth here. The ground truth is how people rate it. I for one would not invoke some 'objective' identity to help me cast my vote, but base it on my own experience.



I would suppose it is absolutely perfect for them.

nothing is objectively perfect for everyone, therefore, nothing can be objectively perfect.

BUT, I have to agree that products can be subjectively perfect for a given individual. and since the question is about individual user opinions, it’s absolutely understandable (even expected) that some users would rate it as perfect for what they do.

the bottom line is, calling out people’s opinions/ratings for being somehow inaccurate is kind of a waste of time and energy.

so I guess that’s my roundabout way of endorsing your response.

It glads me you care about my time and energy, so I waste a bit more while at it. I want to admit that you two are correct. I was honestly so stuck in my disbelief that anyone actual user in all honesty could do that, except maybe an RS employee (a joke cause I do not believe they partake in this) could rate R11 into a 10/10.
But I must make amend, I do now believe that was a wrong judgement from my side. Apologize. The "reason" of amend is the insight and remembering that I have seen quite a few users of Reason both here and on facebook, that actually still claims that Reason 3 or 5 is "perfect", so the mere thought of R11 must be like a spaceship landed in Washington. So yes, I do now convincingly believe that 10/10 is a legit rating. Some do see it as perfection, and I wish I could too.
And if rating is meant to be strictly "how I feel", then off course one have to accept even that for some R11 might be a hate affair if they bought it and nothing works as expected or not goes well with their computer setup. My judgement was based on that iif one is meant to take a step back and look at R11 as a product and DAW per se (as I misunderstood the poll).

[aeox]

Here's what a comprehensive EDM track looks like in Reason

what I really want to know is how that sounds.

The song was playing in the background

[aeox]

Here's what a comprehensive EDM track looks like in Reason

Looks fake. A lot of devices look like they are off or initialised.

Bounce in place would be my guess. All of his projects look like that though

[chimp_spanner]

Looks fake. A lot of devices look like they are off or initialised.

Bounce in place would be my guess. All of his projects look like that though

That gives me serious anxiety haha. I'm always trying to do as much as I can, with as little as I can. Perhaps...this is because I know big projects get way out of hand without folders or any means to hide parts of the rack/arrangement/mixer. Maybe if I had those features, I'd use more stuff? But I'd like to think I'd remain economical. The track sounds legit though so I'm not criticising how he works. Everyone's got a different flow. He even says in the description that a lot of that is automation. The fact that these aren't able to be nested or collapsed into the parent device track means that even a modest track count can result in a LOT of sequencer tracks with enough automation.

[guitfnky]

what I really want to know is how that sounds.

The song was playing in the background

wow, in that case, no offense to the person who did all that, but it looks like a lot more work than was necessary to make something like that.

[Oquasec]

I give every daw an 8.

[aeox]

The song was playing in the background

wow, in that case, no offense to the person who did all that, but it looks like a lot more work than was necessary to make something like that.

I wouldn't even know where to start if I tried to make those sounds. Do you? It's some really unique sound design , not like he's just chucking samples in there and putting effects on. It's a lot of synths, automation, and processing. Then bounce samples + more processing, etc etc.

[PhillipOrdonez]

Looks fake. A lot of devices look like they are off or initialised.

Bounce in place would be my guess. All of his projects look like that though

Those are a lot of devices. Imagine having to find that one little sound that's bothering you. Which of these hundreds of devices was it? Hehe

If I was bouncing in place all the time, I would save as a new project and delete the unused devices. Any changes needed (shouldn't be many, otherwise why did you bounce in place in the first place if you weren't satisfied?) Could be done by importing the device from the previous project. Bothersome? Yes. Making my life easier down the road? I think so. But that's just me. Different folk, different workflows

[guitfnky]

wow, in that case, no offense to the person who did all that, but it looks like a lot more work than was necessary to make something like that.

I wouldn't even know where to start if I tried to make those sounds. Do you? It's some really unique sound design , not like he's just chucking samples in there and putting effects on. It's a lot of synths, automation, and processing. Then bounce samples + more processing, etc etc.

it doesn’t sound all that unique to me, honestly. I’m not a synth expert, but there’s nothing in there that sounds so different or special that I would want to spend that amount of time creating it, personally.

anyone can create unique sounds by doing that much work. it would be more surprising if you didn’t end up with something unique by the time you’ve done that much.

seems almost like they’re looking to brag about how big their project is, but IMO, there’s nothing interesting enough to brag about. with that much stuff, I’d expect something more along the lines of Jacob Collier, in terms of complexity and arrangement. his music doesn’t resonate with me, on any level other than being extremely technically proficient, but you can clearly see why his projects are so dense. this one just seems too sparse to warrant such a high track count.

that’s not to say the music isn’t good, of course. it sounds just fine. in fact, I enjoy it more than I enjoy Jacob Collier.

[gullum]

Here's what a comprehensive EDM track looks like in Reason

seriously ? there are at least 50 instance of redrums in there and maybe 20 Dr.Rex it is surely not needed to make a song like that

[aeox]

I wouldn't even know where to start if I tried to make those sounds. Do you? It's some really unique sound design , not like he's just chucking samples in there and putting effects on. It's a lot of synths, automation, and processing. Then bounce samples + more processing, etc etc.

it doesn’t sound all that unique to me, honestly. I’m not a synth expert, but there’s nothing in there that sounds so different or special that I would want to spend that amount of time creating it, personally.

anyone can create unique sounds by doing that much work. it would be more surprising if you didn’t end up with something unique by the time you’ve done that much.

seems almost like they’re looking to brag about how big their project is, but IMO, there’s nothing interesting enough to brag about. with that much stuff, I’d expect something more along the lines of Jacob Collier, in terms of complexity and arrangement. his music doesn’t resonate with me, on any level other than being extremely technically proficient, but you can clearly see why his projects are so dense. this one just seems too sparse to warrant such a high track count.

that’s not to say the music isn’t good, of course. it sounds just fine. in fact, I enjoy it more than I enjoy Jacob Collier.

You're right, it's easy to make something unique but I always thought his music was very compelling as well. It's masterfully engineered, sound design that I've never heard from anyone before, not even close! Way before knowing he used Reason or seeing his project files, I could hear the intricate detail in his music.

His project file sort of shows how his brain works, everyone is different and I don't think I'd ever have something that "complex". Also, when I posted that video it was a bit of a joke because of how ridiculous it was. You could check out Protostar on twitch, not saying listen to his music because I don't think you'd be interested much Just another reference for what a project file might look like from a professional electronic music producer using Reason. Though, his music is way less intricate(not a bad thing ) so his project files reflect that IMO.

Electric Mantis posted the video because people kept asking to see a project file, not bragging. Well, I guess it's bragging either way right?

Also, since you can't really fold or collapse anything, it looks insane! I don't doubt that many other producers using DAWs like Ableton Live have equally massive project files hidden under all the great organization features. Just because a mix is "sparse" doesn't mean A LOT of work didn't go into all the sound design.

[aeox]

Here's what a comprehensive EDM track looks like in Reason

seriously ? there are at least 50 instance of redrums in there and maybe 20 Dr.Rex it is surely not needed to make a song like that

Who knows? Could be manipulating a lot of his sounds through Dr octo rex, using redrum for the gate cv outs or to trigger one shots.

You guys keep saying ""a song like that" I don't know why, but it just sounds like you're shrugging it off as something easy that you or anyone could do. Trust me I've tried to approach some of the sounds and textures he creates and have never gotten anywhere close. Surely you can't just say "Oh you don't need all that stuff to make a track like that" Without actually being able to make a track like that, ya know?

I'm not a huge fan of his music even. The respect is still there because I know how hard it is to have sound that can't be reproduced by anyone else.

But I want to be fair, he could have totally added a bunch of random shit to make it look stupid. He sometimes makes humorous videos from time to time, but I think his production videos aren't like that.

[joeyluck]

I don't think there can be objective truth here. The ground truth is how people rate it. I for one would not invoke some 'objective' identity to help me cast my vote, but base it on my own experience.



I would suppose it is absolutely perfect for them.

You are totally right in that nothing in a poll like this is objectively true. But that does not mean there is nothing in it that can not be objectively false. There are always extreme points and quite often those are objectively false, without making the opinions inbetween being objective, but they are closer to being balanced (mixed with nuances) than the extremes are. That is why I rule out the extremes to being false but would never say that any of the other numbers is objectively true, because they cannot be. But now we have stepped into some kind of meta-philosophy. If voting by affect, then extremes might be legit in the moment one feels that Reason 11 is horrible (because maybe the computer gets a crash), but as emotional moods and reactions steadily changes throughout the day and week etc, that will become less objective anyway.

I think maybe you've gotten a little tied up on the word 'perfect' at least in the one extreme? And maybe it's easier for some people to be more critical when it comes to software...because they expect updates and new features?

Think about hardware and acoustic instruments. Someone can feel that their vintage synth or their violin is perfect. And those aren't going to be receiving updates. Their features are frozen. They can take them for what they are and appreciate them for what they are.

I have lots of things I would like to see in Reason. I want MPE support so I can take full advantage of my Seaboard Block. So for me, it's not a perfect 10. But I can understand if Reason has everything that another person could ever want.

[Djstarski]

Here's what a comprehensive EDM track looks like in Reason

seriously ? there are at least 50 instance of redrums in there and maybe 20 Dr.Rex it is surely not needed to make a song like that

The play head is not moving . So i for one dont believe this to be real . The track does not feel like the kind of track that would need all that work . imo

[chimp_spanner]

I can only guess that he's making new instruments for variations on sounds and for every incidental sound/special effect. I can pick out maybe half a dozen core elements in the song. I tend to try to do as much as I can with automation. Which, while it does create a large number of automation tracks, at least keeps the mixer (and CPU load) sensible. For things that only happen once though I'd probably be inclined to just design it in the project, bounce to audio, save the preset, delete the device and then just have a couple or three audio tracks dedicated to spot fx at no CPU hit.

Again not crapping on how anyone works. I just can't deal with that much STUFF.

[guitfnky]

it doesn’t sound all that unique to me, honestly. I’m not a synth expert, but there’s nothing in there that sounds so different or special that I would want to spend that amount of time creating it, personally.

anyone can create unique sounds by doing that much work. it would be more surprising if you didn’t end up with something unique by the time you’ve done that much.

seems almost like they’re looking to brag about how big their project is, but IMO, there’s nothing interesting enough to brag about. with that much stuff, I’d expect something more along the lines of Jacob Collier, in terms of complexity and arrangement. his music doesn’t resonate with me, on any level other than being extremely technically proficient, but you can clearly see why his projects are so dense. this one just seems too sparse to warrant such a high track count.

that’s not to say the music isn’t good, of course. it sounds just fine. in fact, I enjoy it more than I enjoy Jacob Collier.

You're right, it's easy to make something unique but I always thought his music was very compelling as well. It's masterfully engineered, sound design that I've never heard from anyone before, not even close! Way before knowing he used Reason or seeing his project files, I could hear the intricate detail in his music.

His project file sort of shows how his brain works, everyone is different and I don't think I'd ever have something that "complex". Also, when I posted that video it was a bit of a joke because of how ridiculous it was. You could check out Protostar on twitch, not saying listen to his music because I don't think you'd be interested much Just another reference for what a project file might look like from a professional electronic music producer using Reason. Though, his music is way less intricate(not a bad thing ) so his project files reflect that IMO.

Electric Mantis posted the video because people kept asking to see a project file, not bragging. Well, I guess it's bragging either way right?

Also, since you can't really fold or collapse anything, it looks insane! I don't doubt that many other producers using DAWs like Ableton Live have equally massive project files hidden under all the great organization features. Just because a mix is "sparse" doesn't mean A LOT of work didn't go into all the sound design.

completely with you on that last point. sparse doesn't equal 'easy' or 'quick'. and your other insinuation--that you can't argue with results--I also agree with wholeheartedly.

personally, I'm not trying to dismiss the quality of the work--it's quite good. all I'm saying is that for me, that seems like a lot more work than would be strictly necessary to come up with something in the same ballpark as far as arrangement and quality, with the caveat that the actual sounds would likely be very different.

to put a finer point on it, quality sounds don't care how much work goes into them. you can pull out a Moog, and get a nice fat sound by tweaking a couple of knobs, without doing anything else to it. or you can take the sound of twelve raccoons fighting in a dumpster, and mangle it six ways to sunday until it sounds beautiful.

both paths are equally viable, and of course it comes down to personal preference and workflow, but for me, my time is better spent trying interesting musical ideas than on sound design (which I still spend plenty of time on anyway).

[Yonatan]

You are totally right in that nothing in a poll like this is objectively true. But that does not mean there is nothing in it that can not be objectively false. There are always extreme points and quite often those are objectively false, without making the opinions inbetween being objective, but they are closer to being balanced (mixed with nuances) than the extremes are. That is why I rule out the extremes to being false but would never say that any of the other numbers is objectively true, because they cannot be. But now we have stepped into some kind of meta-philosophy. If voting by affect, then extremes might be legit in the moment one feels that Reason 11 is horrible (because maybe the computer gets a crash), but as emotional moods and reactions steadily changes throughout the day and week etc, that will become less objective anyway.

I think maybe you've gotten a little tied up on the word 'perfect' at least in the one extreme? And maybe it's easier for some people to be more critical when it comes to software...because they expect updates and new features?

Think about hardware and acoustic instruments. Someone can feel that their vintage synth or their violin is perfect. And those aren't going to be receiving updates. Their features are frozen. They can take them for what they are and appreciate them for what they are.

I have lots of things I would like to see in Reason. I want MPE support so I can take full advantage of my Seaboard Block. So for me, it's not a perfect 10. But I can understand if Reason has everything that another person could ever want.

"Reason is absolutely perfect. I wouldn't change a thing. I love it."

Some see the glass as half empty, some as half full, and some see it as fullfilled. That is what I have learnt on this poll.
None seem to see it as completely empty though. I rate it a 7 as I today read about how the Rack plugin has same good update function that Reason standalone. Might come to eight if the coming updates brings a goodie bag.

[Brosefski]

I voted 8. I'm personally very happy with Reason in general. 11 is fine for me, I haven't had any glaring issues so far since I've dived back into this stuff.

I always think there's things to improve. It seems pretty CPU heavy, maybe there's room to improve that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Also I like the idea of hiding mixer channels maybe by a bus channel, that you can expand and collapse.