You also feeling ripped off upgrading?

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blaasvaer
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 Oct 2017

Post 12 Feb 2020

Now, I've bought various Rack Extensions and ReFills over time ... even paid for the Reason Drum Kits and Reason Electric Bass AGAIN in the form of a shiny new plugin.

Now, staring at the 'new' version ... I can't help feeling I get ripped of paying €249,- for getting basically just a few (I can count nine compared to what I already own) extra things of which I would never use most of anyway (especially Umpf and Layers Waves Edition) ...

This would mean that I'd pay €249,- for the few new (minor) interface features and a few extra 'plugins' ... I don't get it. Maybe it's me ... but when my gut tells me somethings rotten – there usually is.

Could someone maybe shed some light of what I'm missing in this upgrade strategy being ok? Or are we all just happy supporters (blind religious people) and providing "artificial respiration" for a dying company trying to survive changing strategy – by not actually focusing on Reason (as stated arguing the brand change) by making Rack Extensions available to other DAWs? I can only see Reason itself becoming redundant this way ... unless you define Reason as only being the Rack Extensions of course.

Would like to hear your thoughts.

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moneykube
Posts: 2179
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

same boat ....same consensus.... you are not missing anything imo :exclamation:

Yonatan
Posts: 1024
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

Similar for me (R10} regarding Reason 11 Suite, so I wont pay for a third time on some quite newly released REs. So I surely skip Suite, but am looking at Standard upgrade at €129 (115 dollar at JRRshop), but need more features than hithereto been offered since release date some 6 months ago.

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Oquasec
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Rewire users & plugin users gonna look at most of the nonmodular standalone additions and be like "well I already had this in something else 10 years ago"
But that's not the point, it's nice seeing changes to reason that don't change the interface in a detrimental way because it works how it's supposed to :]
Producer/Sound Designer.

Yonatan
Posts: 1024
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

I would say that it is better to take a RE subsription if having interest in some RE included in the Suite, and/or get some of them at a sale or in some other bundle.
I would think a fair deal for the users would be to get various % off depending on which REs one already bought, that went into Suite. Or to give those who upgrade to Standard (owning many of the REs) a good % off on the ones included in Suite so one can choose to complete the bundle in another way.
Some good gesture. But they do not think that way it seems.
Last edited by Yonatan on 12 Feb 2020, edited 1 time in total.

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KarmaFunkarma
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Joined: 20 Jul 2018

Post 12 Feb 2020

"You also feeling ripped off upgrading?"

No - I've used Reason since 2.0 and loved the Rack, but I have GREATLY preferred Live as a DAW for years as well. This upgrade lets me use the Rack in my favorite DAW. Well worth it and looking forward to getting midi out functionality.

Will I upgrade next time? Totally depends on new features that are part of the Rack. I'd not upgrade next time if the changes focus on the Reason DAW.

That's my scenario. YMMV

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 745
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Location: Colombia

Post 12 Feb 2020

Nobody is forcing anyone to upgrade to suite. For some of us it was a bargain and we took it. Not for you? Ok. What's the issue?

blaasvaer
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 Oct 2017

Post 12 Feb 2020

Thanks a lot for your comments.

I know we all have different needs and arguments for choosing whether to upgrade or not. If you find it a bargain, good for you.

@PhillipOrdonez, my issue is what I tried to describe ... feeling ripped of for buying an upgrade of which I already own most, simple as that. I know I'm not forced to do anything, but the signal Reason is sending worries me. In my case, I think the best route would be to just wait, and see whatever new stuff they may or may not come up with in the future ... and then maybe chip in.

I just thought of an application that would calculate Your Reasonable Price based of on what you already own in the shop: the app scans your Rack Extensions and ReFills and spits out a Reasonable Price taylor made to you. Now, that feature would make all individuals feel 'treated fairly' – if that's even a thing.

Thanks anyway ... I'll hold my horses and see what the future brings.

And please notice how I managed to add both Reason and Able(ton) into the price pun ReasonAble Price ; )

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Social Exodus
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Location: The wilds of North Idaho

Post 12 Feb 2020

FWIW, I was in the same boat as you -- owning a large chunk of the Reason 11 Suite but I have chosen not to upgrade because of this. I am not a professional music studio, but a hobbyist with more money than talent and I've decided to start changing that. If I can't get decent music out of Reason 10 with a crapload f rack extensions, then there is (literally) no point in putting another dime into any DAW or plug-in until I actually hit some wall that necessitates it.

I can see though that people who do this for a living feel like Reason is somewhat adrift in this age of so many competitors in terms of stand alone studio usage. TBo be honest, much of the asks/complaints with Reason are above my knowledge. But correct me if I am wrong -- doesn't RS offer a 30 day money back guarantee?
To Reason is Divine! :reason:(v10) :re:(Too many to count) :refill:(A few choice items)

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Loque
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Post 12 Feb 2020

Yea, same. Thats live. I do not buy any RS RE anymore.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

kitekrazy
Posts: 775
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

I avoid most RE's because they clutter up the OS drive without the simple option LIKE OTHER DAWS to most extras to a different drive. The upgrade price to Suite seems like an attractive option for me but from my experience upgrading to Live's Suite seemed to be a waste of money for little improvements to what is already bundled.

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guitfnky
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Post 12 Feb 2020

I’ve been very critical of R11, but their upgrade strategy is perfectly fine (with an exception I’ll get to below). all of the devices available in the Suite are available for separate purchase, so if you already have many of them, simply buy the standard upgrade, and save yourself $120. it’s not difficult to do the math and figure out whether it’s worth it for you to upgrade to the Suite version. it was worth it to me, because I didn’t have many of those devices, and wanted them.

the gap they made with having two different full versions was in their pricing for those who upgrade to Standard, and then later decide they want Suite. those people would have to pay $130 for the Standard upgrade, but then get charged the full $250 price to get from Standard to Suite. not very well-thought out.

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Kalm
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Location: Austin

Post 12 Feb 2020

It's the same with me, but for me I bargained cause I didn't have most of those devices and I like having native tools sort of speak. And the fact that $130 upgrade was factored into the cost. It was more of a instead of forcing you to upgrade to make all these devices native in the DAW like Radical Piano, we'll give you an option for a discounted price.
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Oquasec
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Post 12 Feb 2020

I'm guessing the plugins are 3000$ when not bundled into there.
250$ for that seems a little too cheap.
Producer/Sound Designer.

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 745
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 12 Feb 2020

blaasvaer wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Thanks a lot for your comments.

I know we all have different needs and arguments for choosing whether to upgrade or not. If you find it a bargain, good for you.

@PhillipOrdonez, my issue is what I tried to describe ... feeling ripped of for buying an upgrade of which I already own most, simple as that. I know I'm not forced to do anything, but the signal Reason is sending worries me. In my case, I think the best route would be to just wait, and see whatever new stuff they may or may not come up with in the future ... and then maybe chip in.

I just thought of an application that would calculate Your Reasonable Price based of on what you already own in the shop: the app scans your Rack Extensions and ReFills and spits out a Reasonable Price taylor made to you. Now, that feature would make all individuals feel 'treated fairly' – if that's even a thing.

Thanks anyway ... I'll hold my horses and see what the future brings.

And please notice how I managed to add both Reason and Able(ton) into the price pun ReasonAble Price ; )
I get your point if you already own most of the devices and then the stuff included in the standard upgrade isn't vital to you, then there is no point in upgrading at all, blåsvær, but one needn't feel ripped off for something one does not need to and will not purchase. :)

blaasvaer
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 Oct 2017

Post 12 Feb 2020

Well, the problem is, that I'd like those minor updates to the interface. But the price tag for getting them seem ridiculously high in the context.

I'm well aware that I don't HAVE to do anything. But I do see a problem ... even if I'm the only one (which seems not to be the case) ... so, there you go.

I understand that people really need to wear the yellow hat ... but I'm not one of those – unfortunately.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
Posts: 517
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

I upgraded to RS 11 Suite at the beginning of February as a Birthday Present to Myself. I chose the Suite as I didn't purchase a majority of the RE's previously. I paid for Parsec 1 at full price a week before it went on sale ( whenever that was) and Club Drums for 50% off a lil while ago. I loved Complex-1 when i demoed it and I'm always a fan of players. Anyways I had an itching feeling something like this was gonna come along at some point, and spent money on other VST's that were going at crazy flash sales, as they usually do before the end of the year.

I'm happy with Reason 11 Suite, and I can crank out more DSP load while going thru the latest version of Logic, than otherwise the main program. I'm still trying to tame the Polystep Beast however. Complex-1 has become my new favorite synth to play with. I've made some Soundscapes with that puppy I otherwise would have never made.

Yeah, $249 is what it is. I could have easily spent that at the bar for a less fun time and had to worry about getting back home at the end of the night.

Sometimes just kicking it with Yourself and doing creative things is where its at

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joeyluck
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Post 12 Feb 2020

blaasvaer wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Now, I've bought various Rack Extensions and ReFills over time ... even paid for the Reason Drum Kits and Reason Electric Bass AGAIN in the form of a shiny new plugin.

Now, staring at the 'new' version ... I can't help feeling I get ripped of paying €249,- for getting basically just a few (I can count nine compared to what I already own) extra things of which I would never use most of anyway (especially Umpf and Layers Waves Edition) ...

This would mean that I'd pay €249,- for the few new (minor) interface features and a few extra 'plugins' ... I don't get it. Maybe it's me ... but when my gut tells me somethings rotten – there usually is.

Could someone maybe shed some light of what I'm missing in this upgrade strategy being ok? Or are we all just happy supporters (blind religious people) and providing "artificial respiration" for a dying company trying to survive changing strategy – by not actually focusing on Reason (as stated arguing the brand change) by making Rack Extensions available to other DAWs? I can only see Reason itself becoming redundant this way ... unless you define Reason as only being the Rack Extensions of course.

Would like to hear your thoughts.
What I'm gathering from this is that you should get the standard upgrade for $129. If the Suite upgrade for $249 doesn't add value in your opinion, or REs that you want, why are you considering it? You didn't get a bill in the mail from them telling you that you owed them $249 did you? That's the way this comes across. How are you being ripped off exactly?

I think they priced the Suite upgrade so low at $249 so that it would be beneficial to a vast majority of customers interested in the collection of REs

Reason Suite upgrade is $249. That is only $120 more on top of the standard upgrade price of $129. It's something like over $1300 worth of REs included with Suite upgrade. So you can potentially get that many REs for only $120 extra. You only have to not own two or three of the sixteen REs to still get a good deal out of it. And if beyond that you don't feel like it is a good deal to you or that it doesn't have anything you want ("extra things of which I would never use most of anyway")—then you don't have to buy it.

blaasvaer
Posts: 10
Joined: 11 Oct 2017

Post 12 Feb 2020

Ok, sorry if you didn’t get my point. We should just leave it at that. We all ride our horses differently. You think everything is fine ... that’s just as valid an opinion as mine. So no reason(!) to argue about that. Value is relative, and the price of a product is often just pulled out of any body opening based on a vague guess about how hard we can push this.

In my case going for the upgrade to ‘standard’ ... is what I’m on about in relation to paying a lot for minor interface updates.

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reddust
Posts: 618
Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 12 Feb 2020

I haven't upgraded basically because of this. The new features weren't interesting for me to spend the money this update costs.

Actually this update has moved me to go back to Ableton Live after some years using Reason. I might upgrade to R11 if there is a sale some time because I like some of the REs I already own and I prefer to work only in a single DAW - Reason 11 even dismissed ReWire if I remember correctly.

So my plan is to get the plugin rack so I can still use my REs in Ableton Live and say adieu to Reason for an undefined time, then I don't know if the future updates and Live or any other DAW development is going to lead me back to use Reason again as my main DAW.

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joeyluck
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Post 12 Feb 2020

blaasvaer wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Ok, sorry if you didn’t get my point. We should just leave it at that. We all ride our horses differently. You think everything is fine ... that’s just as valid an opinion as mine. So no reason(!) to argue about that. Value is relative, and the price of a product is often just pulled out of any body opening based on a vague guess about how hard we can push this.

In my case going for the upgrade to ‘standard’ ... is what I’m on about in relation to paying a lot for minor interface updates.
Just trying to understand your view as well as set you at ease and put things into perspective is all :puf_smile:

Sorped
Posts: 194
Joined: 29 Nov 2016
Location: Denmark

Post 12 Feb 2020

blaasvaer wrote:
12 Feb 2020
feeling ripped of for buying an upgrade of which I already own most, simple as that.
The why the heck did you buy it?
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zebbleganubi
Posts: 13
Joined: 15 Oct 2017

Post 12 Feb 2020

kitekrazy wrote:
12 Feb 2020
I avoid most RE's because they clutter up the OS drive without the simple option LIKE OTHER DAWS to most extras to a different drive.
i could be wrong but i think you can symlink the folder. i symlinked the soundbank files before and it worked but that was on the same drive. you could have all your reason stuff in one folder and then run a bash script after you install reason that would add links in all the different locations.

for creating one off symlinks "Link Shell Extension" is probably the quickest and easiest way ive found
https://schinagl.priv.at/nt/hardlinkshe ... nsion.html

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guitfnky
Posts: 1650
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

Sorped wrote:
12 Feb 2020
blaasvaer wrote:
12 Feb 2020
feeling ripped of for buying an upgrade of which I already own most, simple as that.
The why the heck did you buy it?
that’s what I’m wondering too. the features were very clearly outlined, so we knew what we were getting before buying anything.

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MrFigg
Posts: 3493
Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 12 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
12 Feb 2020
Sorped wrote:
12 Feb 2020


The why the heck did you buy it?
that’s what I’m wondering too. the features were very clearly outlined, so we knew what we were getting before buying anything.
Says also that he already had all the Props REs he wanted and the nine he got in Suite he didn’t really need and won’t use. So why buy Suite? Maybe I misunderstood.

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