This new "thing" RS working on, will it be included in R11?

[Ottostrom]

This thread is starting to remind me why I mostly stay away from these type of forums

[Busta US]

Well, at least now it is as clear as clean water, Reason is officially a plugin, not a DAW. I'm going back to Logic and might use 11.2 (just bc I paid for it) but my guess is Ill spend more time in Komplete 12.

[Yonatan]

I must say I am seeing a very useful fun creative tool here. Can see this being a good live tool or while arranging a track on the go with "live" automations or for jamming. And it spices up all the older devices and instruments already in Reason. Really nice work.

As some point out, R11 has mainly been about the Rack and its Plugin, but that is another discussion thread. This thread has gotten its answer; A Beat Map Player device that comes free for R11 users. Thanks for all speculation and humour.

[Electric-Metal]

Well, at least now it is as clear as clean water, Reason is officially a plugin, not a DAW.

Errm, ...no.

[chimp_spanner]

Generative tools will not make good music without musical intent. If you don't know what sounds good, it's not gonna do all the work for you. It's a tool for discovery, accidental inspiration, unexpected results. You might just use it to trigger hats and program your own kicks and snares in Drum SEQ. Totally fine if it's not something that interests you but people who can (and do) program their own beats can still find interesting, imaginative ways to use something like this.

[Busta US]

Well, at least now it is as clear as clean water, Reason is officially a plugin, not a DAW.

Errm, ...no.

What's new in 11.2 for DAW users ?

[dusan.cani]

Reminds me of:

I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all.

This debate is as old as time itself. My personal opinion is that people are free to make music in whichever way they want, it's all valid. You do you.

Putting pre-made loop is not making music. Compose your own beat from individual samples to fit your idea in your head is.

As active Reason user I would appreciate updates that fixes major problems when working with sequencer and browser. I don't want plenty of new automatic generative tools. I want to create the music, and my primary tools are browser and main sequencer.

It's sad to see that Reason as the DAW is really going to end.

[MrFigg]

How long do you think it’s going to be until someone writes the immortal “if you don’t like it don’t buy it” ? I’m guessing not too long. Ech!!

[Busta US]

My personal opinion is that people are free to make music in whichever way they want, it's all valid. You do you.

So you are the Product Manager, huh ? Dude, why are you neglecting the Reason DAW ? Yes clap clap clap for the plugin and the little Ableton tutorial, but what about all those Reason DAW core users ? F%#!k em or what ? Do you read the Feature Requests ? What about that whole huge list you made of the REALLY necessary features for Reason 11 ?

Care to be more expressive ?

[Yonatan]

Generative tools will not make good music without musical intent. If you don't know what sounds good, it's not gonna do all the work for you. It's a tool for discovery, accidental inspiration, unexpected results. You might just use it to trigger hats and program your own kicks and snares in Drum SEQ. Totally fine if it's not something that interests you but people who can (and do) program their own beats can still find interesting, imaginative ways to use something like this.

I think the Players are a quite interesting middle way to go about things. Not all Players appeal to me, but I think these kind of tools gives just enough tweak-ability to still make you being the Captain of the ship with enough control but also with the spice of meeting waves out in the sea. If I control everything, it can get too sterile, and if I control nothing, that everything is done for me without any knobs to experiment etc, then equally it is not satisfying. I think that the Players when they are at its best, strike a good balance in between. I mean, there is still so much work one have to do to lay down a track arrangement, mix and make all the choices of sounds etc.

[Rackman]

@Mr Fig I'll put the canned responses here so repliers can just copy / paste:

- if you don’t like it don’t buy it
- Just use another DAW
- Why are you so negative, this is a FREE update.

[Steedus]

Looks really fun, I’m glad it’s included as a free update, though personally I’m still sitting this version out.

To the people crying about the sanctity of ‘I only want to make the beat as I hear it in my head’, I’m sorry but stop being so pretentious and go have some fun like the rest of us.

[chimp_spanner]

I really cannot stand the gatekeeping around what constitutes creating music or not. I'll say it again; assistive/generative tools, loops, helpers, etc. will not produce good music without an idea or some musical intent. I feel like some people want a cookie because they can do all the parts themselves. And if you can, great. Someone might be an AMAZING top line writer, but not a great drum programmer. Someone might be awesome at mixing but not a keyboardist. I have absolutely no issue if Players help those people realise their ideas faster.

Me? I love drum programming, and I still personally find value in devices or programs that can spit out new or unexpected ideas. I play guitar but I still use Shreddage when I wanna try things out. I play keyboard but I still use Chords and Scales when I'm in a hurry.

It's not a pissing contest. Make something that tickles my ear just right, and I really couldn't care less how it was made.

[aeox]

Yes, why compose the beats by your own imagination, skills and creativity ? Just let the work to be done by automatic generative tools. This is the future.

Reminds me of:

I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all.

This debate is as old as time itself. My personal opinion is that people are free to make music in whichever way they want, it's all valid. You do you.

I agree with that comment for the most part. For me, a line is drawn. I'm probably not going to build my own RE(don't quote me on this, I might ) but I'll use synths to craft my sounds prior to digging into samples. In the same way that I would build the foundation of a track with init patch+ processing before supplementing with modified/processed presets. It's a personal thing for me, I feel more connected to my music and more proud of it. Even if i'm limiting myself in some ways by not exploring certain avenues. Most people couldn't care less where the sounds come from, they just want an acceptable result in the end.

There will always be intangibles that make artists stand out from the rest. Even with all these generative tools we have.. interesting, unique, and compelling sounds/ideas are still a rarity in the music world and always will be.

Ultimately, it's about having fun. I think everyone can agree with that! We just all have different ways of having fun.

[VariableX]

just watched the video, gotta say I like it!
will it make me upgrade from 10 to 11?
dun, dun duuuuuuu...... tempted

gonna sleep on it

[Rackman]

To be fair, I think the reason people are pissed off isn't that they built this toy, but that they opted to spend development time on this rather than sorting out the sequencer / DAW aspects of Reason or address any of the longstanding feature requests and issues.

Look on their last Facebook post and you'll see the same thing. Users don't want toys. They want some love given to the DAW.

I really cannot stand the gatekeeping around what constitutes creating music or not. I'll say it again; assistive/generative tools, loops, helpers, etc. will not produce good music without an idea or some musical intent. I feel like some people want a cookie because they can do all the parts themselves. And if you can, great. Someone might be an AMAZING top line writer, but not a great drum programmer. Someone might be awesome at mixing but not a keyboardist. I have absolutely no issue if Players help those people realise their ideas faster.

Me? I love drum programming, and I still personally find value in devices or programs that can spit out new or unexpected ideas. I play guitar but I still use Shreddage when I wanna try things out. I play keyboard but I still use Chords and Scales when I'm in a hurry.

It's not a pissing contest. Make something that tickles my ear just right, and I really couldn't care less how it was made.

[Yonatan]

I can see some frustration about priority and I understand it, as it is a bit hard to see how much more of things they now can include in R11 before they have to go for a R12. At least no more devices will probably come (that gets included), so there might be some room left for some things to do with the core DAW. But that aside I still think this is a welcome release.

[VariableX]

To be fair, I think the reason people are pissed off isn't that they built this toy, but that they opted to spend development time on this rather than sorting out the sequencer / DAW aspects of Reason or address any of the longstanding feature requests and issues.

Look on their last Facebook post and you'll see the same thing. Users don't want toys. They want some love given to the DAW.

I really cannot stand the gatekeeping around what constitutes creating music or not. I'll say it again; assistive/generative tools, loops, helpers, etc. will not produce good music without an idea or some musical intent. I feel like some people want a cookie because they can do all the parts themselves. And if you can, great. Someone might be an AMAZING top line writer, but not a great drum programmer. Someone might be awesome at mixing but not a keyboardist. I have absolutely no issue if Players help those people realise their ideas faster.

Me? I love drum programming, and I still personally find value in devices or programs that can spit out new or unexpected ideas. I play guitar but I still use Shreddage when I wanna try things out. I play keyboard but I still use Chords and Scales when I'm in a hurry.

It's not a pissing contest. Make something that tickles my ear just right, and I really couldn't care less how it was made.

it has Robotic Bean on the back so I guess they developed it? whilst the core dev team do other stuff...

[Yonatan]

To be fair, I think the reason people are pissed off isn't that they built this toy, but that they opted to spend development time on this rather than sorting out the sequencer / DAW aspects of Reason or address any of the longstanding feature requests and issues.

Look on their last Facebook post and you'll see the same thing. Users don't want toys. They want some love given to the DAW.

it has Robotic Bean on the back so I guess they developed it? whilst the core dev team do other stuff...

Good move that they cooperate with other developers.

[dusan.cani]

To be fair, I think the reason people are pissed off isn't that they built this toy, but that they opted to spend development time on this rather than sorting out the sequencer / DAW aspects of Reason or address any of the longstanding feature requests and issues.

Look on their last Facebook post and you'll see the same thing. Users don't want toys. They want some love given to the DAW.

Exactly, this is the point.

Mattias, why Reason Studios ignores us, the users, so long ?

Check this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7512272&p=446846#p446846

Do you still consider that all the users need now are the new generative players ?

[MrFigg]

it has Robotic Bean on the back so I guess they developed it? whilst the core dev team do other stuff...

Good move that they cooperate with other developers.

I guess they maybe thought it’d be the right thing to do after fucking him with his last player. Oh...sorry. Is that too controversial?

[chimp_spanner]

To be fair, I think the reason people are pissed off isn't that they built this toy, but that they opted to spend development time on this rather than sorting out the sequencer / DAW aspects of Reason or address any of the longstanding feature requests and issues.

Look on their last Facebook post and you'll see the same thing. Users don't want toys. They want some love given to the DAW.

I really cannot stand the gatekeeping around what constitutes creating music or not. I'll say it again; assistive/generative tools, loops, helpers, etc. will not produce good music without an idea or some musical intent. I feel like some people want a cookie because they can do all the parts themselves. And if you can, great. Someone might be an AMAZING top line writer, but not a great drum programmer. Someone might be awesome at mixing but not a keyboardist. I have absolutely no issue if Players help those people realise their ideas faster.

Me? I love drum programming, and I still personally find value in devices or programs that can spit out new or unexpected ideas. I play guitar but I still use Shreddage when I wanna try things out. I play keyboard but I still use Chords and Scales when I'm in a hurry.

It's not a pissing contest. Make something that tickles my ear just right, and I really couldn't care less how it was made.

Hey I'm still 90% Reason DAW, even with RRP. I have my own wishlist and I whip it out at every possible opportunity But as RRP is the newest, biggest thing to shout about it makes sense that they have to address that. I saw a lot of people who straight up would not invest until they could use Players with VSTs in their host or drag patterns from OctoRex into the sequencer. They absolutely needed to add those features. Plus with MIDI out they can push the Rack as a MIDI toolbox even for users who don't use any rack instruments at all, although really, they'd be missing a trick right?

Beyond that, I know more producers who have some potential interest in buying the Rack as a plugin than they ever would in ditching Logic, Ableton, FL, etc. for a different DAW with a totally different paradigm. RRP was a necessary step. Sadly not everyone knows/loves the DAW as much as us long-timers, although not for lack of my trying to convert them haha. I think/believe/hope that the success of the plugin will funnel back into the DAW as I do like working in it more than anything else, even with the things it's missing. Still, I guess considering how much music and sound design I've made in this thing over the last few years I'd probably keep using it in some capacity even if nothing changed. But I highly doubt that's gonna be the case.

[reddust]

I really cannot stand the gatekeeping around what constitutes creating music or not. I'll say it again; assistive/generative tools, loops, helpers, etc. will not produce good music without an idea or some musical intent. I feel like some people want a cookie because they can do all the parts themselves. And if you can, great. Someone might be an AMAZING top line writer, but not a great drum programmer. Someone might be awesome at mixing but not a keyboardist. I have absolutely no issue if Players help those people realise their ideas faster.

Me? I love drum programming, and I still personally find value in devices or programs that can spit out new or unexpected ideas. I play guitar but I still use Shreddage when I wanna try things out. I play keyboard but I still use Chords and Scales when I'm in a hurry.

It's not a pissing contest. Make something that tickles my ear just right, and I really couldn't care less how it was made.

Let's just not take different opinions as offenses, No one wants a cookie here and of course it's not a contest, it's just a personal preference. I can understand why other people might prefer tools like this but for me it is not fun if a software devices does the work I like doing myself, that would be for me like purchasing a computer game and let the computer play while I watch.

For some people that might be fun, but not for me. Not to tell about how this kind of devices make a lot of people sound all the same because if we like it or not these devices have their limits too. I am the type of guy who likes to listen to the human component in music, even in electronic music. With some devices it is very common to end up recognizing the device when you listen a song but not recognizing who the artist is.

[madmacman]

I’m quite happy that they finally added Midi Out for Players. Was my “final“ feature request until I move 100% to Studio One. Now I can complete my transition.

[reddust]

To be fair, I think the reason people are pissed off isn't that they built this toy, but that they opted to spend development time on this rather than sorting out the sequencer / DAW aspects of Reason or address any of the longstanding feature requests and issues.

Look on their last Facebook post and you'll see the same thing. Users don't want toys. They want some love given to the DAW.

Totally agree with this