Track Freeze Options

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Periwinkle
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Post 10 Feb 2020

As you probably know, Logic and most modern daws have had a freeze option for many years now. By hitting the freeze button on a track, all instruments and effects are deactivated and a bounced audio file is played back in their place. This all happens behind the scenes and the track sounds exactly the same. Obviously, this can reduce strain on the CPU enormously. If you need to make changes, clicking the freeze button returns the track to its 'live' editable format.

Okay, enough teaching my grandmothers to suck eggs. What's the best way to achieve a similar result in Reason? If I use Bounce in Place, will it be sufficient to simply mute the original track or should I individually mute each device on that track to reduce CPU usage?

Thanks in advance.
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.“Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.”

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Heater
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 10 Feb 2020

I have been asking for track freeze for years. No one else here seems to want it which has totally mystified me.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Bounce all Your Tracks/ Stems and make a new project. Keep the original project. 2020 meet 1999/2000 again

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Heater wrote:
10 Feb 2020
I have been asking for track freeze for years. No one else here seems to want it which has totally mystified me.
you literally posted that no one here seems to want it in response to a thread that someone else—who clearly wants it—started. 🙃

in all seriousness, I don’t think anyone would complain if we got track freeze functionality in Reason. but a lot of us have pretty good performance already, and there are more pressing concerns for us. I would love to see track freezing implemented—my vote would just be to have them work on that after we get a lot of the more basic shortcomings fixed first.

Heater
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Post 10 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
10 Feb 2020
in all seriousness, I don’t think anyone would complain if we got track freeze functionality in Reason. but a lot of us have pretty good performance already, and there are more pressing concerns for us. I would love to see track freezing implemented—my vote would just be to have them work on that after we get a lot of the more basic shortcomings fixed first.
I can understand that. I would say that performance wasn't always great for Reason. Especially with VSTs so track freeze would have really come in handy.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 Feb 2020

Heater wrote:
10 Feb 2020
guitfnky wrote:
10 Feb 2020
in all seriousness, I don’t think anyone would complain if we got track freeze functionality in Reason. but a lot of us have pretty good performance already, and there are more pressing concerns for us. I would love to see track freezing implemented—my vote would just be to have them work on that after we get a lot of the more basic shortcomings fixed first.
I can understand that. I would say that performance wasn't always great for Reason. Especially with VSTs so track freeze would have really come in handy.
I can also understand Your frustration. It isn't here however... commit to a bounce!

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Periwinkle
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Location: London England

Post 10 Feb 2020

To be honest, (and not meaning to sound like a prat) I'm running a pretty high spec machine, but this piece has an obscene number of tracks and a ridiculous number of VSTs. It wasn't until I started adding multiple instances of Amplitube that it started to glitch a little. The sad thing is that I know Logic could handle this. I'm really trying to keep the faith here, and although I don't think I'll go back to Logic, Studio One is starting to look mighty inviting. The thing is (and I don't know if this has occurred to the Props), but if I go the route of using Reason as a VST, it's unlikely that I'll ever buy another update from them. When making the decision to pursue the VST direction and neglect sequencer functionality Props seem to have forgotten that in the longterm people rarely shell out for paid update to their VSTs. The whole thing seems a bit like a short-term strategy.
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joeyluck
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Post 10 Feb 2020

I guess it comes down to differences in workflows.

For me, I think it would be beneficial to just have an Audio Settings snapshot toggle in the Transport. I have general settings I dial in for writing/performing versus mixing. I'd like to simply toggle those without opening the preferences and adjusting settings.

I simply increase the buffer size when I'm mixing a CPU heavy song. If I decide I need to write something additional to a CPU heavy song, I'll bypass some of those heavy mastering plugins. I use the bounce in place from time to time, but I have never had the need to bounce all tracks in place. So sure, I'm probably one of the people who least needs a true track freeze function. And I'm doing all of this on a MacBook Air.

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orthodox
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Post 10 Feb 2020

If you stop feeding notes to an instrument, it should significantly reduce the CPU time consumption. It will still get CPU cycles though. The similar thing with effects, they should stop their activity when there is silence on the input.
On the other hand, the throughput of simultaneous reading of many audio clips from disk is also limited.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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guitfnky
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Post 10 Feb 2020

one thing I’ve learned recently is that having too much RAM installed can cause audio glitches that otherwise wouldn’t be experienced. specifically, using all four RAM slots may not result in the best experience. I bought 64 GB of RAM recently to quadruple my system RAM, and found my sessions glitching out much sooner than when I’d only had 16 GB installed. same project, same processing, same buffer settings and hardware, but more RAM. I removed two of the cards from every other slot, and went to 32 GB, and now it runs like a dream again. I’m sure YMMV, but it’s still worth noting if you’re having issues, and you’re using all of your RAM slots. might be worth pulling a couple to see if that helps.

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Mmj85
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Post 11 Feb 2020

+1

Reason Studio's please give us the option to Freeze Tracks! Just like Hell Froze Over when audio recording come to Reason! 🥶
Please help us all that work in large setups and use multiple devices.

Yonatan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 11 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
10 Feb 2020
one thing I’ve learned recently is that having too much RAM installed can cause audio glitches that otherwise wouldn’t be experienced. specifically, using all four RAM slots may not result in the best experience. I bought 64 GB of RAM recently to quadruple my system RAM, and found my sessions glitching out much sooner than when I’d only had 16 GB installed. same project, same processing, same buffer settings and hardware, but more RAM. I removed two of the cards from every other slot, and went to 32 GB, and now it runs like a dream again. I’m sure YMMV, but it’s still worth noting if you’re having issues, and you’re using all of your RAM slots. might be worth pulling a couple to see if that helps.
So strange! But I dont want to get down to 8gb, but probably it would go smoother. Who's fault is this behavior? is it same in every DAW you use or is it something about how Reason handles things?

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reddust
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Post 11 Feb 2020

Periwinkle wrote:
10 Feb 2020
If I use Bounce in Place, will it be sufficient to simply mute the original track or should I individually mute each device on that track to reduce CPU usage?
If you are using VST instruments you will need to switch them off in order to save CPU usage, bounce in place alone doesn't really help much with VST's if these stay active. the way Reason has implemented this is not really the best choice and one of the reasons why I am going back to Ableton for the moment.

Yonatan
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Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 11 Feb 2020

reddust wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Periwinkle wrote:
10 Feb 2020
If I use Bounce in Place, will it be sufficient to simply mute the original track or should I individually mute each device on that track to reduce CPU usage?
If you are using VST instruments you will need to switch them off in order to save CPU usage, bounce in place alone doesn't really help much with VST's if these stay active. the way Reason has implemented this is not really the best choice and one of the reasons why I am going back to Ableton for the moment.
I must admit there is a bit confusion in Reason DAW what affects what. There are so many options regarding "mute" and/or bypass or to hide devices etc, but what saved cpu and what does not etc.

If someone from RS or someone else who tested out options, that could clarify.
Same with that preference box about hyperthreading. It seems just to worsen performance on a Mac.

And then we have the opening in lowres mode as something strange goes on with Reason and Retina displays.

Some sort of clarity needs how to best use Reason. Is this same with other DAWs or is it a specific thing with Reason making it a bit of a labyrinth...?

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Oquasec
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Post 11 Feb 2020

track freeze is missing in fl n reason.
Producer/Sound Designer.

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guitfnky
Posts: 1676
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 11 Feb 2020

Yonatan wrote:
11 Feb 2020
guitfnky wrote:
10 Feb 2020
one thing I’ve learned recently is that having too much RAM installed can cause audio glitches that otherwise wouldn’t be experienced. specifically, using all four RAM slots may not result in the best experience. I bought 64 GB of RAM recently to quadruple my system RAM, and found my sessions glitching out much sooner than when I’d only had 16 GB installed. same project, same processing, same buffer settings and hardware, but more RAM. I removed two of the cards from every other slot, and went to 32 GB, and now it runs like a dream again. I’m sure YMMV, but it’s still worth noting if you’re having issues, and you’re using all of your RAM slots. might be worth pulling a couple to see if that helps.
So strange! But I dont want to get down to 8gb, but probably it would go smoother. Who's fault is this behavior? is it same in every DAW you use or is it something about how Reason handles things?
I think it has something to do with how the data is handled between the two sets of slots. if you’re just using one set of slots, it doesn’t have to pass data from one set to the other, so it doesn’t get subjected to the same hiccups. I think it’s something that mainly happens with DAWs, so the rest of your system performance is likely very good with all four slots of RAM. but take what I say with a grain of salt. I know very little about RAM, or why that happens. I’m speaking from my own experience, and based on a cursory amount of information I’ve found online.

what I do know is that you want to make sure all of the RAM installed is the same, including from the same manufacturer, and that if you’re using only 2 of the RAM slots, most motherboards suggest installing in every other slot (i.e. in slots 1 and 3, or 2 and 4)—looking up your motherboard’s manual will tell you for sure.

it’s super easy to pull and replace a couple of sticks of RAM though to test it out. just watch a Youtube video or two on the process first. you could try it, and if you notice an improvement, you know that’s the culprit. you could then buy a couple of larger sticks of RAM to put in just those two slots. so if you’ve got 4GB sticks installed now, you could get two 8GB sticks, and keep your RAM at 16, which I’m assuming is what you have currently, and still enjoy the better performance. best of both worlds.

for me, it was definitely negatively impacting performance in most of the other DAWs I tried. Reason, Digital Performer, and Harrison Mixbus.

Yonatan
Posts: 1073
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 11 Feb 2020

guitfnky wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Yonatan wrote:
11 Feb 2020


So strange! But I dont want to get down to 8gb, but probably it would go smoother. Who's fault is this behavior? is it same in every DAW you use or is it something about how Reason handles things?
I think it has something to do with how the data is handled between the two sets of slots. if you’re just using one set of slots, it doesn’t have to pass data from one set to the other, so it doesn’t get subjected to the same hiccups. I think it’s something that mainly happens with DAWs, so the rest of your system performance is likely very good with all four slots of RAM. but take what I say with a grain of salt. I know very little about RAM, or why that happens. I’m speaking from my own experience, and based on a cursory amount of information I’ve found online.

what I do know is that you want to make sure all of the RAM installed is the same, including from the same manufacturer, and that if you’re using only 2 of the RAM slots, most motherboards suggest installing in every other slot (i.e. in slots 1 and 3, or 2 and 4)—looking up your motherboard’s manual will tell you for sure.

it’s super easy to pull and replace a couple of sticks of RAM though to test it out. just watch a Youtube video or two on the process first. you could try it, and if you notice an improvement, you know that’s the culprit. you could then buy a couple of larger sticks of RAM to put in just those two slots. so if you’ve got 4GB sticks installed now, you could get two 8GB sticks, and keep your RAM at 16, which I’m assuming is what you have currently, and still enjoy the better performance. best of both worlds.

for me, it was definitely negatively impacting performance in most of the other DAWs I tried. Reason, Digital Performer, and Harrison Mixbus.
Thanks for the observation, interesting enough to look into and try out. At least less expensive than thinking of having to buy a newer computer.

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sonicbyte
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Argentina

Post 11 Feb 2020

Hi,

Best two options so far:
1- Bounce in place + switch off each VST with the rack button / bypass RE
2- Create a copy of your main project with all bounced channels :/

Hope it helps

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reddust
Posts: 630
Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 11 Feb 2020

Yonatan wrote:
11 Feb 2020
reddust wrote:
11 Feb 2020


If you are using VST instruments you will need to switch them off in order to save CPU usage, bounce in place alone doesn't really help much with VST's if these stay active. the way Reason has implemented this is not really the best choice and one of the reasons why I am going back to Ableton for the moment.
I must admit there is a bit confusion in Reason DAW what affects what. There are so many options regarding "mute" and/or bypass or to hide devices etc, but what saved cpu and what does not etc.

If someone from RS or someone else who tested out options, that could clarify.
Same with that preference box about hyperthreading. It seems just to worsen performance on a Mac.

And then we have the opening in lowres mode as something strange goes on with Reason and Retina displays.

Some sort of clarity needs how to best use Reason. Is this same with other DAWs or is it a specific thing with Reason making it a bit of a labyrinth...?
Yeh I think that's the downside of having three different views (rack, mixer and sequencer). I think someone said there is reason why mute and solo buttons aren't linked between the sequencer view and the other two but I don't remember what it was and never could find a use for it in my workflow, I'd rather have all three of them linked so when I click mute or solo in any of these views, the other two will always have the same value as the one I clicked on.

Heater
Posts: 312
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 11 Feb 2020

sonicbyte wrote:
11 Feb 2020
Hi,

Best two options so far:
1- Bounce in place + switch off each VST with the rack button / bypass RE
2- Create a copy of your main project with all bounced channels :/

Hope it helps
Thanks for that.

jlgrimes
Posts: 422
Joined: 06 Jun 2017

Post 11 Feb 2020

Periwinkle wrote:
10 Feb 2020
As you probably know, Logic and most modern daws have had a freeze option for many years now. By hitting the freeze button on a track, all instruments and effects are deactivated and a bounced audio file is played back in their place. This all happens behind the scenes and the track sounds exactly the same. Obviously, this can reduce strain on the CPU enormously. If you need to make changes, clicking the freeze button returns the track to its 'live' editable format.

Okay, enough teaching my grandmothers to suck eggs. What's the best way to achieve a similar result in Reason? If I use Bounce in Place, will it be sufficient to simply mute the original track or should I individually mute each device on that track to reduce CPU usage?

Thanks in advance.
This has been a common request for years and has been somewhat unanswered.

Reason is alot more CPU efficient now but it would still help as a feature.

I'm guessing they are having to rewrite the whole engine as Reason as a DAW has more complex routing audio/CV options vs other DAWS.

Yonatan
Posts: 1073
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

When I come to the point when I find myself need to use the track freeze functions in Logic, it kind of reminds me that I need to do some cleaning up and rethinking in the whole project. I admit freeze function is handy and I would not mind having it in Reason. But, for me, it seldom solve the real issue at hand, as one constantly need to adjust things even in the mixing stage, with automation, effects etc. So, I feel very crippled when pushing the "freeze" on tracks. So I am not fully sure how essential it is. Handy yes indeed, can be a bit tough to do "bounce to track" every time throughout the mix. Would love to push on/off "freeze" instead.

I find that many functions that may be handy and that Reason may lack a direct way to do (but maybe a workaround) is of more importance when working at a deadline or some others project or for an artist that want to sit by and collaborate etc. I mean, Reason is enough candy to work with as to get by with many things and there are workarounds. But where Reason could progress is to fix some things that now slows workflow down when doing deadline work or having people you work with. Every minute and even 15-30 extra seconds in those cases just slows down the overall workflow. When its just me sitting and doing a few tracks and having no real pressure of the clock, I think that is when and where Reason shines the most. A few workflow betterments here and there in a steady pace, would let the DAW shine even more as it has a nice ground philosophy in it that would make many other DAWs not as compelling if having similar time savers.

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Periwinkle
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Location: London England

Post 12 Feb 2020

I eventually solved this by increasing the buffer size. Silly really - Should have thought of this before whining. Did I already post this? Who am I? Where's my tea? I remember when it was all fields around here.

On a supplementary note, Can anyone guess why Scuffham’s S-Gear (Demo)VST might not be showing up in Reason?
Oh yeah, and did I mention I increased the buffer size?
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.“Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.”

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orthodox
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Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 12 Feb 2020

I always change ASIO for DX drivers (Windows) and set large buffer size when I'm not recording, and I don't record most of the time.
Never imagine yourself not to be otherwise than what it might appear to others that what you were or might have been was not otherwise than what you had been would have appeared to them to be otherwise. -- L.Carroll

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