Noob Music Theory question that's been buggin me...

[StrokerX]

I've never even thought about this until Scales and Chords came out and I'll try and word it correctly even tho I'm sure to sound like a 4th grader.

So, for instance if I'm using scales and chords and throw down a bunch of D Minor chords. Does this now mean that my entire song has to be in D Minor now? Like, halfway thru a bar can I jump to a G Major chord thru automation or is that a no no? I guess I'm wondering if a song is in a certain key, does that leave out chords from other keys from being included in the song?
-Side note, when and if you do switch up keys for the song would you also want to tune your drums different for those parts?

Also, Octave doesn't have anything to do with octopuses right?
Thanks for holding my hand.
Adam

[Bes]

lots of good content on youtube. do a search for "what key is my song in" and you will find something.

[jam-s]

Octave and octopus have the same greeek/latin root octo which stands for 8 (whole notes/arms).

To answer your other question: no you're not limited to just chords of the given scale. There are quite a few songs with different keys (e.g. one key during the verse and another during the chorus). Additionally you can use chords of the corresponding parallel key.

[mcatalao]

Ok, so by parts...

With Scales and Chords, to make songs with different keys you can change it through automation. So if you want to go from D minor do D major, just press right button over the Scale and select Edit Automation. From now on if you edit any automation on the device, it will be recorded in a track.

You can also add the automation track by adding a track to the device, then you can add the automation you need and edit on the sequencer.

There are still 2 more ways to work with this... I find this quite interesting for using with my EWI, because i can control the scales and chords i'm generating with it... So imagine you're controlling some pads, you can put them i a combi. Now create a player, but put it also on the combi over the polyphinc device. Now on the combi, select the player device, and route button 4 to the key, and on the max and min, select the 2 keys you want to work with. Then route rotatary 4 to the scale and select a bunch of modes. If you select min = major and max = lydian, you can toggle from Major, Minor, Lydian.

This method is great to work live to turn monophonic controllers, like the EWI into poly.

There's also another interesting way to work wich is having 2 scales and chords working together. So you can stack them and have one on and other off, with their settings different.

Finally, you can customize the scale, you can print the notes to the sequencer and keep changing it along the song.
Notice we've been talking about scale and key, but every single button on it can be affected with the aforementioned methods.

The add Oct button ads one octave up and one octave down (an octave is the full scale, and the notes repeat on and on, like in A, B, C, D, E, F, G | A, B, C D E F G |... and the same note in to octaves, sounds the same but higher). On the chords and scales, basically makes the chord more open to the next octave where you play it.

[mcatalao]

Octave and octopus have the same greeek/latin root octo which stands for 8 (whole notes/arms).

To answer your other question: no you're not limited to just chords of the given scale. There are quite a few songs with different keys (e.g. one key during the verse and another during the chorus). Additionally you can use chords of the corresponding parallel key.

You mean working with C Major and A minor? That's called Relative keys. To work with Parallel keys you need to change the scale (C Major and C Lydian are Parallel keys).

So to work with relative keys (and modulating from C Major to A Minor, you don't have to do anything to Scales and chords. To work with paralels you change the scale (to any other scale or mode).

[jam-s]

You mean working with C Major and A minor? That's called Relative keys.

I was thinking about relative key, which in German is called "Paralleltonart", thus giving some additional confusion. (Like B being called h and a#/b-flat being called b.)

[Timmy Crowne]

There are no no-no's! I agree with all the above answers to your question, so I'll just add some stuff that I've learned over the years and hopefully some of this will be useful. It's not possible to cover all the ideas completely but I'll try to point out and bold the names of these ideas if you want to research more about them.

If you compose a song using strictly the chords from the D Minor scale, your song *could* be described as being in D Minor. However, depending on which chords in D Minor you choose, you could "trick" the listener into hearing the progression in another key. For example:

• B♭| F | Gm | F

This progression could technically be in D Minor, but it could sound to the listener like B♭ Major. If you then introduced an Am followed by a Dm, the mood would take a very somber turn unexpectedly as if the key changed, even though all the chords were from D Minor. Part of the fun is playing with the listener's expectations this way. If this idea interests you, it may be worthwhile to research harmonic ambiguity.

If you want to add some momentary color into a progression, you can do that by replacing one of your chords with one from another key. For example, I could play something like:

• C | Am | F | G

But maybe that's too boring, so I substitute the final G chord for Fm for that nostalgic Beatles vibe, or maybe Dm7♭5 for that nice jazzy mood, or A♭ to B♭ for that rising superhero inspirational thing. All these new chords are from C Minor, the parallel key to C Major. Replacing a chord this way is called chord substitution or using a borrowed chord. Note that the piece would still carry the sound of the original key because the deviations aren't long enough for the listener to hear a new key.

If you want to actually change the key at any point in your composition, you can shift your "home base" to a new key, just like picking up and moving into a new house. In music theory lingo, this is referred to as a modulation if you wanna search for more info about it. Usually, modulations are prepared by playing a chord or two from the new key before "landing" on the tonal center. For example, if I wanted to go from C Major to Ab Major I could play:

• C | F | D♭| E♭| A♭

The D♭ is the 4 of the new key, and the E♭ is the 5, which leads to the 1, A♭. This becomes our new home for as long as we want to stay there.

Also worth noting is that your composition never has to be in any key at all! When chords don't "lead" to each other in the traditional sense, the progression is an example of non-functional harmony. This kind of progression shows up a lot in late jazz, prog rock, early house, and even RPG games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy. Sometimes the chords share the same shape or quality even though they derive from differing scales. A related concept to non-functional harmony is called modal harmony, where the progression more or less leans heavily on one or two chords for a while and tends to avoid the strong "home" resolutions found in traditional functional harmony.

As far as tuning drums, it's really down to personal taste and intended style or genre. If you like the tension between the drums and the other instruments when the key changes around them, leave 'em. If the tension is undesirable, you can alter the pitch of the drums to match the new key, but watch out if drastically changing the pitch of the drums may also remove some of their impact. Clearly all of these ideas are rabbit holes that one could spend years exploring, but I hope this was useful to you, Adam. Wishing you the best.

[Yonatan]

There are no no-no's! I agree with all the above answers to your question, so I'll just add some stuff that I've learned over the years and hopefully some of this will be useful. It's not possible to cover all the ideas completely but I'll try to point out and bold the names of these ideas if you want to research more about them.

If you compose a song using strictly the chords from the D Minor scale, your song *could* be described as being in D Minor. However, depending on which chords in D Minor you choose, you could "trick" the listener into hearing the progression in another key. For example:

• B♭| F | Gm | F

This progression could technically be in D Minor, but it could sound to the listener like B♭ Major. If you then introduced an Am followed by a Dm, the mood would take a very somber turn unexpectedly as if the key changed, even though all the chords were from D Minor. Part of the fun is playing with the listener's expectations this way. If this idea interests you, it may be worthwhile to research harmonic ambiguity.

If you want to add some momentary color into a progression, you can do that by replacing one of your chords with one from another key. For example, I could play something like:

• C | Am | F | G

But maybe that's too boring, so I substitute the final G chord for Fm for that nostalgic Beatles vibe, or maybe Dm7♭5 for that nice jazzy mood, or A♭ to B♭ for that rising superhero inspirational thing. All these new chords are from C Minor, the parallel key to C Major. Replacing a chord this way is called chord substitution or using a borrowed chord. Note that the piece would still carry the sound of the original key because the deviations aren't long enough for the listener to hear a new key.

If you want to actually change the key at any point in your composition, you can shift your "home base" to a new key, just like picking up and moving into a new house. In music theory lingo, this is referred to as a modulation if you wanna search for more info about it. Usually, modulations are prepared by playing a chord or two from the new key before "landing" on the tonal center. For example, if I wanted to go from C Major to Ab Major I could play:

• C | F | D♭| E♭| A♭

The D♭ is the 4 of the new key, and the E♭ is the 5, which leads to the 1, A♭. This becomes our new home for as long as we want to stay there.

Also worth noting is that your composition never has to be in any key at all! When chords don't "lead" to each other in the traditional sense, the progression is an example of non-functional harmony. This kind of progression shows up a lot in late jazz, prog rock, early house, and even RPG games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy. Sometimes the chords share the same shape or quality even though they derive from differing scales. A related concept to non-functional harmony is called modal harmony, where the progression more or less leans heavily on one or two chords for a while and tends to avoid the strong "home" resolutions found in traditional functional harmony.

As far as tuning drums, it's really down to personal taste and intended style or genre. If you like the tension between the drums and the other instruments when the key changes around them, leave 'em. If the tension is undesirable, you can alter the pitch of the drums to match the new key, but watch out if drastically changing the pitch of the drums may also remove some of their impact. Clearly all of these ideas are rabbit holes that one could spend years exploring, but I hope this was useful to you, Adam. Wishing you the best.

What a great walkthrough!

[selig]

So, for instance if I'm using scales and chords and throw down a bunch of D Minor chords. Does this now mean that my entire song has to be in D Minor now? Like, halfway thru a bar can I jump to a G Major chord thru automation or is that a no no? I guess I'm wondering if a song is in a certain key, does that leave out chords from other keys from being included in the song?

Short answer, no. Plenty of songs include a minor and major version of the same chord (sometimes right after each other), which are DEFINITELY not in the same key. Always use your ears - "if it sounds good, it IS good" (D. Ellington).

As an extreme example, I've always been amazed by Sitting on the Dock of the Bay, which consists entirely of major chords (super easy to play in open tuning on a guitar!). Obviously the 2, 3, 6, and 7 chord SHOULD be minor in any key, but in this case they'er all major. But that doesn't change the key of the song…

[StrokerX]

There are no no-no's! I agree with all the above answers to your question, so I'll just add some stuff that I've learned over the years and hopefully some of this will be useful. It's not possible to cover all the ideas completely but I'll try to point out and bold the names of these ideas if you want to research more about them.

If you compose a song using strictly the chords from the D Minor scale, your song *could* be described as being in D Minor. However, depending on which chords in D Minor you choose, you could "trick" the listener into hearing the progression in another key. For example:

• B♭| F | Gm | F

This progression could technically be in D Minor, but it could sound to the listener like B♭ Major. If you then introduced an Am followed by a Dm, the mood would take a very somber turn unexpectedly as if the key changed, even though all the chords were from D Minor. Part of the fun is playing with the listener's expectations this way. If this idea interests you, it may be worthwhile to research harmonic ambiguity.

If you want to add some momentary color into a progression, you can do that by replacing one of your chords with one from another key. For example, I could play something like:

• C | Am | F | G

But maybe that's too boring, so I substitute the final G chord for Fm for that nostalgic Beatles vibe, or maybe Dm7♭5 for that nice jazzy mood, or A♭ to B♭ for that rising superhero inspirational thing. All these new chords are from C Minor, the parallel key to C Major. Replacing a chord this way is called chord substitution or using a borrowed chord. Note that the piece would still carry the sound of the original key because the deviations aren't long enough for the listener to hear a new key.

If you want to actually change the key at any point in your composition, you can shift your "home base" to a new key, just like picking up and moving into a new house. In music theory lingo, this is referred to as a modulation if you wanna search for more info about it. Usually, modulations are prepared by playing a chord or two from the new key before "landing" on the tonal center. For example, if I wanted to go from C Major to Ab Major I could play:

• C | F | D♭| E♭| A♭

The D♭ is the 4 of the new key, and the E♭ is the 5, which leads to the 1, A♭. This becomes our new home for as long as we want to stay there.

Also worth noting is that your composition never has to be in any key at all! When chords don't "lead" to each other in the traditional sense, the progression is an example of non-functional harmony. This kind of progression shows up a lot in late jazz, prog rock, early house, and even RPG games like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy. Sometimes the chords share the same shape or quality even though they derive from differing scales. A related concept to non-functional harmony is called modal harmony, where the progression more or less leans heavily on one or two chords for a while and tends to avoid the strong "home" resolutions found in traditional functional harmony.

As far as tuning drums, it's really down to personal taste and intended style or genre. If you like the tension between the drums and the other instruments when the key changes around them, leave 'em. If the tension is undesirable, you can alter the pitch of the drums to match the new key, but watch out if drastically changing the pitch of the drums may also remove some of their impact. Clearly all of these ideas are rabbit holes that one could spend years exploring, but I hope this was useful to you, Adam. Wishing you the best.

Digging all of this. I was always "no no-no" guy but then have been haphazardly trying to introduce technique and theory lately. I've definitely learned more but also can admit that not knowing too much and just listening can also be a good way to go. Def appreciate the feedback and have even been thinkin lots about The Beatles lately so it's funny you bring them up. I love how their compositions vary so much. Super inventive even today. Thanks for the tips everyone!

[chimp_spanner]

One thing I really wish had been implemented in Players from the get-go was a global key track. How cool would it be to have an extra root key setting on all scale quantising Player devices called "Global" and then you just draw in pattern clips on this one lane and your song will follow it? Don't get me wrong; I find players incredibly useful, but if you're doing more complicated progressions, you're not gonna stay in a key/mode for the entire section. It might shift around between many keys. ATM the only way I can think to do it is create automation lanes for all of the root keys for all of the scales/chords in a song.

[StrokerX]

One thing I really wish had been implemented in Players from the get-go was a global key track. How cool would it be to have an extra root key setting on all scale quantising Player devices called "Global" and then you just draw in pattern clips on this one lane and your song will follow it? Don't get me wrong; I find players incredibly useful, but if you're doing more complicated progressions, you're not gonna stay in a key/mode for the entire section. It might shift around between many keys. ATM the only way I can think to do it is create automation lanes for all of the root keys for all of the scales/chords in a song.

I half understood those words. But that half is gelling my friend. So thankyou! Music for me has been like building a big comfy house and moving in for a few years and then being like, "Hey, what if we had plumbing?! Or, oooo... lights! And I think it's finally time to get rid of that smell." It's fun tho!