Where did the Propellerheads I/ we loved disappear to?

[EnochLight]

The Eurorack changed what people think about as modular today. Reason was created to recreate the experience of hardware in a way that no one under 40 cares about anymore. I have been using it since version 2 and have updated each time because I still like it, though it has never been my main DAW.

I just don't know who their new audience will be. It is really not as powerful as a DAW as other DAWs, and it is not as fun as a modular as other setups. Again, I like it personally, I just have trouble visualizing a young person finding it exciting. It is not really cheap, either, though I do think it is fairly priced.

Reason just feels very nostalgic to me now, which is fine because I am an old guy with memories of dying for the hardware it recreates. But what if no one shares that nostalgia?

My 12 year old thinks Reason is awesome. I tried to get her into Ableton Live, Bitwig, and Reaper - nope. She sort of liked Studio One, but Reason is her go-to.

[diminished]

<<Permalink>>

Well holy crap - what the hell are they working on??!

hardware combinator...?

[MrFigg]

Well holy crap - what the hell are they working on??!

hardware combinator...?

Yeah...wasn't that mentioned a while ago. Like you could load rack devices into hardware?

[guitfnky]

are you really trying to create an equivalency between someone’s relationship to a company (like it or not, we all have a relationship to Reason Studios—we use their products; we talk about them here) with their interpersonal relationships with actual human beings?

Er, no

I'm doing the exact opposite of that

oh, cool, except you are doing that though. you're drawing a direct comparison between one's relationship with a company, and one's family/friends. it's like comparing apples and spaceships.

I get that you're saying we should treat them differently, but your suggestion is that some of us are treating them the same--like we're using Props/RS as some sort of emotional stand-in for our families...that's...bizarre, at best.

[motuscott]

Apples are like spaceships in that both of them are red, but Trump has the sharpest brain, really sharp, you should see it, all red and all, talking like it was human and all
Here all week...
tips appreciated...

[reddust]

My 12 year old thinks Reason is awesome. I tried to get her into Ableton Live, Bitwig, and Reaper - nope. She sort of liked Studio One, but Reason is her go-to.

I'm by far not the youngest here but I started using Reason not so long ago, at least not really in depth, and I can understand young people liking it over other DAWs because I find it quite more inspiring than most of the (in my opinion) boring UI's other DAWs usually offer. I think that's one of the biggest strengths of Reason as a DAW, being both a good DAW and visually inspirational as well.

If you don't necessarily need the couple of features Reason hasn't still implemented and other DAWs already have, I think many users would prefer to use a DAW that also looks like having fun while writing music. Other companies might think using a more serious look let their product look more professional, but I personally find that rather boring and uninspiring. If Reason had those features that in my opinion are a must these days I would personally even doubt about moving to another DAW.

[Kalm]

The thing is, Reason is fast to make something. There's not a lot of menu commands and under the hood features you have to know about to do everything. Think Pro Tools and Logic. It just does too much.I think Props main and number 1 goal is to always figure out how to simplify workflow while still keeping a quality for professional sounding music. Reason 11 is in this what else is absolutely necessary to make music phase and everything is an 80/20 principle with them. Which is not a bad move. I think it will calm users nerves if we got a potential roadmap or focus for next releases so this big surprise thing isn't devastating to people.

The only company who I feel pays any attention to their users and a top priority level is Presonus with Studio One. Other than that Reason isn't doing bad and that's coming from a slightly disappointed suite owner.

[reddust]

The thing is, Reason is fast to make something. There's not a lot of menu commands and under the hood features you have to know about to do everything. Think Pro Tools and Logic. It just does too much.I think Props main and number 1 goal is to always figure out how to simplify workflow while still keeping a quality for professional sounding music. Reason 11 is in this what else is absolutely necessary to make music phase and everything is an 80/20 principle with them. Which is not a bad move. I think it will calm users nerves if we got a potential roadmap or focus for next releases so this big surprise thing isn't devastating to people.

The only company who I feel pays any attention to their users and a top priority level is Presonus with Studio One. Other than that Reason isn't doing bad and that's coming from a slightly disappointed suite owner.

Totally agree, that's one of the things I keep working with Reason, most things are relatively easy to find and to learn so you can start making music instead of wasting time searching for a function hidden behind some icon in a screen full of them.

Can I ask why are you slightly disappointed with the suite? I'm thinking of upgrading if there is some sale ever, as only getting two of the REs I want costs almost the same as the suite upgrade for me.

[Kalm]

The thing is, Reason is fast to make something. There's not a lot of menu commands and under the hood features you have to know about to do everything. Think Pro Tools and Logic. It just does too much.I think Props main and number 1 goal is to always figure out how to simplify workflow while still keeping a quality for professional sounding music. Reason 11 is in this what else is absolutely necessary to make music phase and everything is an 80/20 principle with them. Which is not a bad move. I think it will calm users nerves if we got a potential roadmap or focus for next releases so this big surprise thing isn't devastating to people.

The only company who I feel pays any attention to their users and a top priority level is Presonus with Studio One. Other than that Reason isn't doing bad and that's coming from a slightly disappointed suite owner.

Totally agree, that's one of the things I keep working with Reason, most things are relatively easy to find and to learn so you can start making music instead of wasting time searching for a function hidden behind some icon in a screen full of them.

Can I ask why are you slightly disappointed with the suite? I'm thinking of upgrading if there is some sale ever, as only getting two of the REs I want costs almost the same as the suite upgrade for me.

The suite is a 'sweet' deal. Seriously. But compared to what Reason 7-10 updates were, this was very small. Like many people said there's a NUMBER of small things they could do and work on to update Reason but the focus is always on something new. While I love new things like everyone else, I love upgrades also. The Reason Rack is a real amazing concept but unless you're on the recipient of that, that's the only target audience for this update. My biggest update was the SSL racks in the rack, but that's not a paid update feature value, that's more like a point update. I'm basically buying built in effects.

Now the Filter effect and chorus effect is awesome. But besides that we have updated, not 'new' workflow features. They can take one update of Reason and incorporate 20 updates worth of features and it'll generate a better 80/20 boost in productivity than new devices.

[reddust]

The Reason Rack is a real amazing concept but unless you're on the recipient of that, that's the only target audience for this update.

This is exactly the reason why I didn't upgrade yet. And now I'm thinking of upgrading only because there are already a couple of REs - not even new ones - that I would like to have and buying them separately would be almost as expensive as upgrading. It is kind of sad actually to buy an update only because it saves me money in order to get things that were already there long before the update itself.

As you said, the things that this update brings for users not interested in using the Plugin Rack are more like a point update.

[bxbrkrz]

[Ostermilk]

One word out of place and an entire life ruined!

Reason has refused to work on my machine since part of the corporate branding changed and I'm now being ridiculed by people that once used to turn to me for divine wisdom.

Did no one foresee my current plight when 'Reason Studios' was first put forward as an idea?

I haven't been as devastated since the 'Marathon' chocolate bar became known as 'Snickers'. It's worth noting that I never ate a single, peanuts in nougat, topped with caramel and wrapped in milk chocolate style confectionary bar since THAT tragic day.

There's the omen, right there.

[Oquasec]

This software is easy to use but impossible to master 100% cuz you need to know a lot more than you think.
The CV/Gate system, pages of features & other tidbits should keep you entertained & occupied.

[Flandersh]

I feel for once that the connection with Propelleheads is better, as the feature request that I have had for 8 years was responded to with the release of the Reason Rack Plugin. But, compared to the old days; when Propellerheads had their blog about coffee machines and ice cream in the HQ and promotions of Lego Star Wars set, we got xmas present every year, and the website was of the sort that looked more like a home than a commercial business, the state of Propellerheads is clearly different. However, this change away form the users happened, in my experience, many years ago, and as such I do not feel it any more special now, than before, and I am glad to see that Propellerheads still follow up on feature requests, even if it takes nearly 10 years to realize it on some of them.

[Kalm]

My soul felt this

[bxbrkrz]

My soul felt this

Yep!

[vondersulzburg]

The Eurorack changed what people think about as modular today. Reason was created to recreate the experience of hardware in a way that no one under 40 cares about anymore. I have been using it since version 2 and have updated each time because I still like it, though it has never been my main DAW.

I just don't know who their new audience will be. It is really not as powerful as a DAW as other DAWs, and it is not as fun as a modular as other setups. Again, I like it personally, I just have trouble visualizing a young person finding it exciting. It is not really cheap, either, though I do think it is fairly priced.

Reason just feels very nostalgic to me now, which is fine because I am an old guy with memories of dying for the hardware it recreates. But what if no one shares that nostalgia?

My 12 year old thinks Reason is awesome. I tried to get her into Ableton Live, Bitwig, and Reaper - nope. She sort of liked Studio One, but Reason is her go-to.

The same here. My 11 one who could choose from Logic, StudioOne, Live 8Track, Bitwig 8Track, and FL-Studio always uses Reason. It is so easy to get what I want he says.

[ShelLuser]

I'm a Reason User since 4 and I used my friend's Reason at his house since 1.0. To me, up until recently, Propellerheads always seemed like family. The user community lived in harmony with the company. A grassroots concern who genuinely cared. A place with people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage.

uuhhmm.... I think you picture things a bit too perfect. I still remember the official Reason forums and well, there was plenty of bickering and sometimes whining going on over there as well. I don't know the full details but I could imagine that this was a reason why it eventually got shut down. So if you want to talk about distancing.... that started years ago.

And just like today there were plenty of unhappy campers

But I do agree with you in general... I mean, anyone remember that stunt they pulled to promote Kong? It was awesome! => this one here.

Now, to me at least, it feels as though "Reason Studios" has taken on an anonymity and distanced itself from the users. Daily we read on ReasonTalk of failed downloads, authorizer crashes, mistakes in the shop and unresponsiveness of support.

And we usually don't read about the hundreds of times when things did work as normal. People tend not to share things like that because we take it for granted; it's normal behavior. Yet that also means that you can easily get a less subjective impression of the whole situation.

In the end though RS is still a company, just like the Props were, and a company has only 1 goal to survive: making a profit.

[dvdrtldg]

your suggestion is that some of us are treating them the same--like we're using Props/RS as some sort of emotional stand-in for our families...that's...bizarre, at best.

Well yes, I agree, it is bizarre. But it's not me making the suggestion, it's the OP. He explicitly said "Propellerheads always seemed like family... people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage". He also said "I feel as if I've lost something which I held dear". His words, not mine

My point is: software companies are not family, they're software companies. If you mistake them for family, or expect them to reciprocate some sort of deep sense of personal connection, then prepare to be disappointed. They can be nice people and all, but at the end of the day you're in a transactional relationship. They sell something, you buy it. Their joy is in the money, yours is in the product. Everything else is just fetishism (and here I mean feeling some sort of "love" for the company, but it also applies to people who hate Propellerheads and wage relentless jihad against them, there are a few of those guys out there too) or entitlement (boo hoo, I want things and they didn't give me things and I'm angry because I deserve things because I'm such a "loyal" customer)

So, bad news: these people are not your friends. But good news: they develop and sell excellent software, which you own. Go and make some fucking music with it

[jlgrimes]

I like how prop---reason studios handled reason 11.
The workflow stays the same, but can be moooooooooooved to any other daw.
We had rewire already I know I know

I’m not referring to the products. My focus is more on the disappearance of a closeness between the company and the users.

I think the biggest thing is getting rid of their forum.

Also going the RE/VST Route somewhat might have played a part.

Before REs/VSTs, every Reason user had the same synths effects. As a result I think alot of veteran Reason users know the stock devices waay better than any other program.

I think that also created a sense of community.

Now new users may decide to buy Reason and use either REs or VSTs and rarely touch the stock devices.

I also see Props doing less of their device tutorial videos which alot of times were very educational even for non Reason users as the tutorials were great, fun, and even humorous.

[jam-s]

MrFigg, as another seasoned user of Rebirth338/Reason I think these steps have been contributing to your feeling:

• There used to be much more community features offered by the Props themselves:
  • Reason song archive/exchange
  • Free/Community Refill section
  • the user forums
  • the remix platform (Allihoopa)
  • Rebirth338 + a ton of mods
• Imho the mode of communication was more geeky/nerdy (remember that Pulsar commercial?! or the giant Kong RL pad?) and less polished. That way the Props came other as a bunch of cracy music/software nerds from sweden (heck, even the name was geeky).

On the positive there is the now more open and direct communication (esp. from Matthias and other staffers) about future plans and the reassurance that our feature requests get read and taken into consideration. (Still I think a public and curated feature request tracker operated by the ex-props would be better. Especially if you could vote for features you'd like to see after you've logged in with your account.)

Also ignoring (not even a comment) on often requested features for the store like (complete my bundle or some changes to make the rewards points actually useful) come off as rather cold an indifferent instead of friendly and caring about (long term loyal) customers/users.

[orthodox]

How many verses are there in this song?

[MrFigg]

your suggestion is that some of us are treating them the same--like we're using Props/RS as some sort of emotional stand-in for our families...that's...bizarre, at best.

Well yes, I agree, it is bizarre. But it's not me making the suggestion, it's the OP. He explicitly said "Propellerheads always seemed like family... people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage". He also said "I feel as if I've lost something which I held dear". His words, not mine

My point is: software companies are not family, they're software companies. If you mistake them for family, or expect them to reciprocate some sort of deep sense of personal connection, then prepare to be disappointed. They can be nice people and all, but at the end of the day you're in a transactional relationship. They sell something, you buy it. Their joy is in the money, yours is in the product. Everything else is just fetishism (and here I mean feeling some sort of "love" for the company, but it also applies to people who hate Propellerheads and wage relentless jihad against them, there are a few of those guys out there too) or entitlement (boo hoo, I want things and they didn't give me things and I'm angry because I deserve things because I'm such a "loyal" customer)

So, bad news: these people are not your friends. But good news: they develop and sell excellent software, which you own. Go and make some fucking music with it

@ dvdrtldg, I was writing figuratively.

[Reasonable man]

your suggestion is that some of us are treating them the same--like we're using Props/RS as some sort of emotional stand-in for our families...that's...bizarre, at best.

Well yes, I agree, it is bizarre. But it's not me making the suggestion, it's the OP. He explicitly said "Propellerheads always seemed like family... people who could always be relied upon to help and encourage". He also said "I feel as if I've lost something which I held dear". His words, not mine

My point is: software companies are not family, they're software companies. If you mistake them for family, or expect them to reciprocate some sort of deep sense of personal connection, then prepare to be disappointed. They can be nice people and all, but at the end of the day you're in a transactional relationship. They sell something, you buy it. Their joy is in the money, yours is in the product. Everything else is just fetishism (and here I mean feeling some sort of "love" for the company, but it also applies to people who hate Propellerheads and wage relentless jihad against them, there are a few of those guys out there too) or entitlement (boo hoo, I want things and they didn't give me things and I'm angry because I deserve things because I'm such a "loyal" customer)

So, bad news: these people are not your friends. But good news: they develop and sell excellent software, which you own. Go and make some fucking music with it

Here we go again. Isn't this exactly what you should be doing ....'make some fucking music' . The point you have to understand is that as pointless as you may deem the original post to be ...yours is even more so. So rather than keep posting it again and agian ...take your own advice and make some music.

[orthodox]

Hope this track hits the top again