Rough review

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xboix
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 29 Nov 2019

Wow. Pretty rough review of Reason 11 in Computer Music magazine (UK).
They scored it 8/10 but the text that accompanies it is not good:

"Putting this lip service to progress aside"
"Project navigation that's idiosyncratic at best and frustrating at worst"
"Continues to play catchup"
"nostalgic item"
"No vst3 support"
"Two steps forward, three steps back"
"The DAW needs a rethink"

They like the new devices, they are middling on the rack VST and they end with the slightly more positive
"perhaps a resurgence for this historic software is on the cards".

In a magazine where reviewers are usually fairly generous to products that review is not exactly going to boost sales.

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Loque
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Post 29 Nov 2019

Every review is a matter of taste and never objective - and it cant be.

But i agree, that Reason's pain-point-list is growing. I think they have a foot in the door (as we say here ;-)) with VST rack, now they need to go through and deliver. As far from i have read the last months:
* GUI
* Modernize a few old devices
* Modernize the sequencer
* Modernize audio sample handling
* Remove limitations (like 4 macro knobs on a Combinator with 10 slots per device, which is now called out since a decade or more - just as an example)

Personally i can make music in Reason, since VST i have access to a lot different stuff, but i always wish i did not had the hassle with registration and dealing with 3 billion vendors and authorizations and crappy installations... For me the most pain points are the sequencer (grouping???) and audio editing is really pissing me off and some annoying sh!t here and there, like try to edit a note, which is longer than the display while playing back - horror! And all those little limitations, like no velocity in this little, quite nice, new drum thing (forget its name, because i did not touched it again, after i realized this...) or COmplex-1 in mono (I mean, wtf???)...I dont want to list all that crap again, and again, and again...but i can surely imagine, that ppl working in different sequencers (DAWs) expect more. And for a Rack-Only-VST they need to competit against Arturia Collection, Komplete, eXplorer Bundle, Tone2, Avanger, lot of new Modular systems, tagged databases for samples and patches and so on... The market is full with hard competition.

Last but not least, who cares about CM? Its just there to get a few cheap things. I never read anything inside it.
Last edited by Loque on 29 Nov 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

student9v
Posts: 46
Joined: 29 Sep 2018

Post 29 Nov 2019

No sequencer development and limited plugin. This is not enough for old users. Many suggestions are ignored.

Support may respond in a week, or may not respond in 2 months.

There are no discounts to upgrade. No discounts in bundles.

In general, there is no development.
No support
The version number is changing, but the same thing.
:reason: 5, 11 Lite, 7 x64

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Loque
Posts: 6327
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 29 Nov 2019

student9v wrote:
29 Nov 2019
No sequencer development and limited plugin. This is not enough for old users. Many suggestions are ignored.

Support may respond in a week, or may not respond in 2 months.

There are no discounts to upgrade. No discounts in bundles.

In general, there is no development.
No support
The version number is changing, but the same thing.
Well, that is not completely true.

The sequencer got improved - a ittle bit.

Support reacts between 1 day and never.

Yea, the discount thing is meehh, but not unusual to others. Is it fair, probably not. Do you need to accept this? Probably not.

And ofc, there IS development...I am not sure, why you say this. But it could be true, that they did not a lot in the last decade, but start now doing a bit more...
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

xboix
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 29 Nov 2019

Loque wrote:
29 Nov 2019

Last but not least, who cares about CM?
Quite a few people if their sales numbers are to be believed. The point is that this mag almost always reviews things on the positive side and tends to mention only one or two shortcomings. However you look at it, this is a pretty bad review in a best selling UK magazine.

It means that the RS PR folks have not been schmoozing the mag enough and/or have not been spending enough in adverts in the mag.

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Loque
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Post 29 Nov 2019

xboix wrote:
29 Nov 2019
It means that the RS PR folks have not been schmoozing the mag enough and/or have not been spending enough in adverts in the mag.
Yea, maybe someone p33d in their garden...
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

superpop
Posts: 112
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 29 Nov 2019

Everytime I think Reason needs this or that I look at the picture of George Martin just smiling...
Last edited by superpop on 29 Nov 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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bitley
Posts: 1286
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Location: sweden

Post 29 Nov 2019

Clearly a writer not educated in journalism.

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joeyluck
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Post 29 Nov 2019

A few things have changed since the review was written: AU support and hotkey support for the plugin.

They should include a disclaimer. I'm guessing they don't edit the online review since it already went to print.

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guitfnky
Posts: 1533
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Post 29 Nov 2019

Loque wrote:
29 Nov 2019
Last but not least, who cares about CM? Its just there to get a few cheap things. I never read anything inside it.
I dunno, the people who read it, probably? who cares whether *you* specifically read it? I sure don't. do you care that I don't? no? see how that works?

in all seriousness, anyone who sees a review from a well-known source is going to walk away with an impression, even if they're not consciously aware of it. you see those quotations, and sometime down the line, you start thinking about maybe picking up Reason 11, and all of a sudden you remember something you heard about it, and that it wasn't quite favorable. probably won't make much difference if you're gung-ho to buy it, but if you're on the fence, it could mean the difference between a purchase and a pass.

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Loque
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Post 29 Nov 2019

guitfnky wrote:
29 Nov 2019
I dunno, the people who read it, probably? who cares whether *you* specifically read it? I sure don't. do you care that I don't? no? see how that works?
I just wanted to point one thing out: The articles are crap. The reviews are crap. As long as the devs provide a cheap plugin for their crap magazin, the reviews are "good VST from the dev". It is a crap magazin, with cheap VST plugins to steal. Thats all. I guess RS did not wanted to provide a cheap Reason CM plugin for 3 bucks...

And yes, thats my opinion to this magazin. MY OPINION. Who cares? Nobody, probably. But it is my opinion. If someone cares about their reviews, its his/her thing. >>I<< dont care.
Last edited by Loque on 29 Nov 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

xboix
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 29 Nov 2019

Touched a bit of a nerve...

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miscend
Posts: 1414
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 29 Nov 2019

8/10 seems about right to me for Reason 11. In my opinion Reason reviews in magazines tend to be generous. The only DAWs I'd give 9/10 scores are Logic and maybe Cubase. Everything else gets no more than a 7/10.

groggy1
Posts: 349
Joined: 10 Jun 2015

Post 29 Nov 2019

Ouch. 8/10 in cm is like a 5/10 in Metacritic.

I think reason studios made a trade off: rack plugin brings in new customers and revenue. And next version they’ll invest (hopefully) in daw “catchup”.

They made this decision consciously. So shouldn’t be surprised that current customers are annoyed.

But, I’ll say that I love reasot workflow, so nothing is burning for me. But I am sad to not see the 100% investment in catchup work.

(Fixed typo)

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hurricane
Posts: 971
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Post 29 Nov 2019

So if the review was a 10 out of 10 would you guys be like "OMG SEE, CM MAG ROCKS AND REASON IS STILL THE BEST, YAY!" ?
https://soundcloud.com/hurricane-music
Mac mini (Late 2012) | Logic Pro X | Reason 10.4 | DX7 | DX7s | TX7 | CZ-1 | JP-8080 | Virus Classic | Roland XP-80/XP-30/RD-700 | Steinberg UR22mkII | Emagic AMT8 | Mackie SR24x4 | StudioLogic SL990 PRO

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guitfnky
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Post 29 Nov 2019

Loque wrote:
29 Nov 2019
guitfnky wrote:
29 Nov 2019
I dunno, the people who read it, probably? who cares whether *you* specifically read it? I sure don't. do you care that I don't? no? see how that works?
I just wanted to point one thing out: The articles are crap. The reviews are crap. As long as the devs provide a cheap plugin for their crap magazin, the reviews are "good VST from the dev". It is a crap magazin, with cheap VST plugins to steal. Thats all. I guess RS did not wanted to provide a cheap Reason CM plugin for 3 bucks...

And yes, thats my opinion to this magazin. MY OPINION. Who cares? Nobody, probably. But it is my opinion. If someone cares about their reviews, its his/her thing. >>I<< dont care.
cool. I’ve noticed you tend to pop into a lot of threads about plugins, features, or other stuff that you don’t really like, or is just not relevant to you. the format is often just like this one, and takes on the same sort of dismissive tone...“this thing is objectively worthless because I subjectively don’t like it”, which (on top of being completely illogical) seems kind of pointless to me. why bother commenting? some people obviously find the topics interesting, and worth talking about, or they wouldn’t be posting, but I don’t see how chiming in on something you’re not interested in furthers the discussion first those of us that are.

it’s a bit absurd to think a company would pay writers to write articles and reviews, knowing they’re throwing money out the door just to provide a vehicle to deliver ‘free’ stuff to people. that would be a ton of unnecessary overhead. that stuff gets read by plenty of people, or they’d just change their business model to charge a monthly fee in exchange for a few pieces of software. sort of like the Humble Monthly Bundle subscription model.

and I acknowledge that I’m also guilty of not adding any value to the discussion... 😆

xboix
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 29 Nov 2019

guitfnky wrote:
29 Nov 2019

and I acknowledge that I’m also guilty of not adding any value to the discussion... 😆
This is the internet. Pointless discussion is always the main objective. :D

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guitfnky
Posts: 1533
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Post 30 Nov 2019

xboix wrote:
29 Nov 2019
guitfnky wrote:
29 Nov 2019

and I acknowledge that I’m also guilty of not adding any value to the discussion... 😆
This is the internet. Pointless discussion is always the main objective. :D
haha, fair point!

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bitley
Posts: 1286
Joined: 03 Jul 2015
Location: sweden

Post 30 Nov 2019

I certainly face various areas in Reason daily that could be improved and redesigned but it's stable as a rock and generally extremely great.

Saying Reason is "old" like that makes Zilch sense to me in an electronic music area where the (1982) TB-303 (and that kind of sound) is still as sought after as ever. Has he ever seen a violin by the way?

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Loque
Posts: 6327
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 30 Nov 2019

bitley wrote:
30 Nov 2019
I certainly face various areas in Reason daily that could be improved and redesigned but it's stable as a rock and generally extremely great.

Saying Reason is "old" like that makes Zilch sense to me in an electronic music area where the (1982) TB-303 (and that kind of sound) is still as sought after as ever. Has he ever seen a violin by the way?
Well said...

Maybe Reason is pure analog vintage
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

xboix
Posts: 140
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 30 Nov 2019

The point is not how we feel about Reason or how we feel about that particular magazine or even that some of the issues raised in the review have been addressed since the review. The point is that many of the readers of that "best selling" magazine will get the impression that Reason 11 is a relic of the past struggling to stay relevant.

And, sadly, unlike vintage cars, vintage synths and vintage clothing, software does not age well. 16 bit Windows anyone?

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miyaru
Posts: 52
Joined: 28 Oct 2019
Location: Zaanstad, The Netherlands

Post 30 Nov 2019

I'm again involved in Reason , this time in 11 suite. I used to have Reason 4 standard - 10 yrs ago. A month ago I jumped in again after trying the demo. Personally I do not care about (bad) reviews, I always try myself, and see (hear) for myself. I guess that is the best way, and companies don't supply us with demo versions for no reason of course........

The opinion of a magazine can be harmfull for a vendor, but if it will ruin them......dunno........

That said, I'm a loyal reader of CM, but this time it's a bit strange what they did!
Greetings from Miyaru.
Prodaw i7-7700, 16Gb Ram, Focusrite Saffire Pro40, Reason Suite 11, Live Suit 10, Push2, Presonus Eris E8, Lexicon MPX1,
Korg N1, Korg R3, NI Massive, Rob Papen's Predator 2, Sonarworks Reference 4 and Scaler.

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thx
Posts: 21
Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Location: UK

Post 30 Nov 2019

joeyluck wrote:
29 Nov 2019
A few things have changed since the review was written: AU support and hotkey support for the plugin.

They should include a disclaimer. I'm guessing they don't edit the online review since it already went to print.
I guess these things mattered back in magazines' heyday, when reviews would be the main promotional gambit, set in stone. Perhaps that's why Props used to finish a version before releasing it.

In this digital age, it's now acceptable to under-deliver, slip up, play catchup, patch, whatever. Because if it sucks this week it's still *news*. And if it gets fixed next week, it's *news again*. I don't think anyone likes this, but once the drama passes, the end result is pretty much the same. Just look at how fast Bitwig has matured and progressed.

zoidkirb
Posts: 207
Joined: 18 Nov 2018

Post 30 Nov 2019

Looks like a fairly un controversial review. There's many , far worse complaints about the software on these very pages yet they are hopeful of a resurgence which also seems likely as there is a lot of interest in rack vst.

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joeyluck
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Post 30 Nov 2019

thx wrote:
30 Nov 2019
joeyluck wrote:
29 Nov 2019
A few things have changed since the review was written: AU support and hotkey support for the plugin.

They should include a disclaimer. I'm guessing they don't edit the online review since it already went to print.
I guess these things mattered back in magazines' heyday, when reviews would be the main promotional gambit, set in stone. Perhaps that's why Props used to finish a version before releasing it.

In this digital age, it's now acceptable to under-deliver, slip up, play catchup, patch, whatever. Because if it sucks this week it's still *news*. And if it gets fixed next week, it's *news again*. I don't think anyone likes this, but once the drama passes, the end result is pretty much the same. Just look at how fast Bitwig has matured and progressed.
Funny thing is they mention lack of an AU plugin in the review, but mention it being available as an AU in the image at the beginning. So either that note was added later, or that was an error... :? lol

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