Thoughts on reason Studios

[aeox]

I prefer Reason as a Rewire slave to Reason as a VST. Shame Rewire will probably become legacy software that no DAW bothers to support.

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster. It's basically CF-101 and UN-16 on steroids. I suppose that's not such a big deal when every synth has decent built-in unison these days, but I feel like this device was made for those of us who still use Thor and/or Subtractor regularly. It's also a pretty big upgrade for guitarists.

Sorry. I missed that. What’s good for guitarists about the upgrade? Genuinely asking.

He was talking about the Chorus effect

[MrFigg]

Sorry. I missed that. What’s good for guitarists about the upgrade? Genuinely asking.

He was talking about the Chorus effect

Hahaha. Ok. Well I’ve got enough of them already. . Thanks

[Proboscis]

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster.

In your opinion, what makes the Chorus special ? There's already an incredible Chorus Rack Extension in the store that's been available for a few years. Seems like a bit of a punch in the guts to a developer who have supported the format since the beginning.

Chenill_2_High_Resolution_Front_Shop_59n_sFckg5M.png.10000x10000_q85.jpg (174.75 KiB) Viewed 3570 times

[Carpainter]

I don't doubt that Cheneille is a great-sounding device, but it's not a stock device. I'm far from a Propellerhead shill (I generally shit on them pretty hard despite being a Reason user since version 1), but I won't fault them for improving existing functionality just because a rack extension developer did something similar. This is something that I wish they would do more often. I would kill for Scream 2.0 or an overhaul of RV7000.

[mcatalao]

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster.

In your opinion, what makes the Chorus special ? There's already an incredible Chorus Rack Extension in the store that's been available for a few years. Seems like a bit of a punch in the guts to a developer who have supported the format since the beginning.

Chenill_2_High_Resolution_Front_Shop_59n_sFckg5M.png.10000x10000_q85.jpg

While i really like Matt's work and i do understand his frustration, but releasing a more or less general purpose device is prone to have its competitors.

What i mean is the 30 or 40 compressors in the shop, can't take punches to their guts from each other nor Reason Studios can they? So why on hearth would it be different for a chorus?? Because they work with buckets? It's a design that's around for ages, so...

[guitfnky]

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster.

In your opinion, what makes the Chorus special ? There's already an incredible Chorus Rack Extension in the store that's been available for a few years. Seems like a bit of a punch in the guts to a developer who have supported the format since the beginning.

Chenill_2_High_Resolution_Front_Shop_59n_sFckg5M.png.10000x10000_q85.jpg

what makes it special, vs. the choruses in the shop? it’s included in v11. like mcatalao has pointed out, it’s a general-purpose effect, not something new and novel that RS decided they wanted to cash in on.

and Chenille and JP’s other similar devices are incredibly powerful, and sound fantastic, but they’re not exactly easy to understand. if you don’t need that insane level of tweakability, another good sounding chorus will serve just as well (or better).

[chimp_spanner]

Quartet and Sweeper are actually deceptively simple - the FFT and Grain modes on Quartet are way, way beyond anything you can do with the current chorus and unison devices (Grain in particular is unbelievably lush on clean guitar).

Sweeper's phaser can be pushed into resonator territory with 40 stages and tonnes of feedback. The filter section (taken from Europa right?) is great too - it's kind of understated but the drive knob changes character with different filter models, so it's capable of some really nice saturation and distortion especially when combined with high feedback rates. Plus its mod/envelope section is fantastic.

So yeah, initially these are the things I was less interested in but I actually find myself using them all the time in place of a stack of other devices because they cover so much ground.

[scratchnsnifff]

I prefer Reason as a Rewire slave to Reason as a VST. Shame Rewire will probably become legacy software that no DAW bothers to support.

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster. It's basically CF-101 and UN-16 on steroids. I suppose that's not such a big deal when every synth has decent built-in unison these days, but I feel like this device was made for those of us who still use Thor and/or Subtractor regularly. It's also a pretty big upgrade for guitarists.

I like this take in the new chorus, despite most talking about the rack vst, the chorus has become my most used chorus device.

The filter is amazing as well! I remember asking for a filter with FX filter modes. Definitely glad they listened. It’s awesome to have weird flanger/comb sounds as a stagnant effect. It makes everything very metallic.
The phaser isn’t my favorite though. I find that it’s a bit too intense of a effect. The synapse audio phaser is my favorite in the reason rack. The free T2 phaser is next in line.

But to be honest, I haven’t messed with the phaser settings all that much. I’m sure there’s a way to get the sweeper phaser to sound like the synapse audio.

I assume using negative polarity and a high bandwidth would help. Or I need to dial down the dry wet a bit.

Either way, the chorus unit is stellar
Set the mod amount to a lower value
Set the slider to 1 or 2

And add the synth and chorus in a combinator. Set the start and end points so you can have a knob that sweeps the frequency range.
Again it adds a variation on that crazy metallic sound. It’s subtle but adds such a unique texture. The chorus device really does add something that is new to production. Idk of any FFT chorus FX units or any granular chorus FX apart from grains jitter knob. One last note, the Chorus and ensemble modes are also nice and thiccccc

[Proboscis]

While i really like Matt's work and i do understand his frustration, but releasing a more or less general purpose device is prone to have its competitors.

What i mean is the 30 or 40 compressors in the shop, can't take punches to their guts from each other nor Reason Studios can they? So why on hearth would it be different for a chorus?? Because they work with buckets? It's a design that's around for ages, so...

There's a key point of difference between third party competitors, and what we might describe as a partnership. I'm not aware of the timeline on releases, but Jiggery Pokery seems to have been making Rack Extensions since the inception of the technology. A time when support for a closed ecosystem needed a whole lot of support for it's success, and for the whole DAW to have a future. Even when a lot of the early developers dropped out (sugarbytes, U-he, Korg, Ochen and others I can't recall at this time), JP's kept up with providing new and interesting content to keep things varied and exciting, and in my view is one of the 'big 4' mainstays of recent years.

For a 'partner' (in this case Propellerhead/Reason Studios) to turn around and release a stock product like this is sure to mean an abrupt end to (m)any future sales of that device. Everyone who already uses the platform as was in need of a powerful Chorus will have already bought it. Those who haven't but took the R11 upgrade won't be as likely to buy, nor will any buyers new to the platform.

Perhaps there might have been a better solution, rather than simply powering in to a new release and making a partner's product redundant. Perhaps they may have approached Jiggery Pokery and offered a buy-out based on the past few years sales, plus a little extra on top, and integrated Chenille as it is, into the stock device offerings. The precedent has already been set with third party contributions into the Reason ecosystem, first with Line6 (doomed as it became), then Soundiron for the Klang/Pangea/Humana trio, the Softube guitar & bass amps and even Lectric Panda coding a Propellerhead-branded player.

As a user in favor of Rack Extensions almost exclusively, I find myself wondering what the incentive is for developers to keep supporting the format.

[Chizmata]

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster. It's basically CF-101 and UN-16 on steroids. I suppose that's not such a big deal when every synth has decent built-in unison these days, but I feel like this device was made for those of us who still use Thor and/or Subtractor regularly.

Exactly my thoughts. It doesnt improve much over anything Grain/Europa does, but does a lot on old synths like Subtractor.

[Flandersh]

And I think this is a dangerous game. I can definitely see how the VST can appeal to people who haven't been using Reason all that much. But what about the community itself? You know; the already established Reason users?

I used Reason as my main production tool for nearly 10 years until it was converted from a virtual studio to a DAW, and to me Reason 11 gives back to the old established users what was once removed, the option to use Reason as a virtual studio that is being updated.

I find it then likely that the Reason Rack Plugin will become my main instrument in Presonus Studio One forward. As to the smaller problems, I miss the tab option to flip the rack and the delete option, but that is to live with and it is still a lesser problem than to develop NI Reaktor ensembles inside the VST version of it.

[Oquasec]

Loopmidi EMI is the only rewire workaround left now.
Which is crazy. So I'm guessing it's just gonna be like that from now on

[EnochLight]

Sorry. I missed that. What’s good for guitarists about the upgrade? Genuinely asking.

Guitarist here. The two new effect modules lend themselves to guitarists quite nicely. Otherwise, the sequencer changes with Crossfades comes in handy.

That’s about it for me as a guitarist though.

[MrFigg]

Sorry. I missed that. What’s good for guitarists about the upgrade? Genuinely asking.

Guitarist here. The two new effect modules lend themselves to guitarists quite nicely. Otherwise, the sequencer changes with Crossfades comes in handy.

That’s about it for me as a guitarist though.

Yeah...I’ve got so many effects already. These days I’m putting my guitars through stuff like Nostromo and Fritz. Stutter Edit and Glitchmachines stuff is also awesome. I certainly don’t need another chorus .

[guitfnky]

While i really like Matt's work and i do understand his frustration, but releasing a more or less general purpose device is prone to have its competitors.

What i mean is the 30 or 40 compressors in the shop, can't take punches to their guts from each other nor Reason Studios can they? So why on hearth would it be different for a chorus?? Because they work with buckets? It's a design that's around for ages, so...

There's a key point of difference between third party competitors, and what we might describe as a partnership. I'm not aware of the timeline on releases, but Jiggery Pokery seems to have been making Rack Extensions since the inception of the technology. A time when support for a closed ecosystem needed a whole lot of support for it's success, and for the whole DAW to have a future. Even when a lot of the early developers dropped out (sugarbytes, U-he, Korg, Ochen and others I can't recall at this time), JP's kept up with providing new and interesting content to keep things varied and exciting, and in my view is one of the 'big 4' mainstays of recent years.

For a 'partner' (in this case Propellerhead/Reason Studios) to turn around and release a stock product like this is sure to mean an abrupt end to (m)any future sales of that device. Everyone who already uses the platform as was in need of a powerful Chorus will have already bought it. Those who haven't but took the R11 upgrade won't be as likely to buy, nor will any buyers new to the platform.

Perhaps there might have been a better solution, rather than simply powering in to a new release and making a partner's product redundant. Perhaps they may have approached Jiggery Pokery and offered a buy-out based on the past few years sales, plus a little extra on top, and integrated Chenille as it is, into the stock device offerings. The precedent has already been set with third party contributions into the Reason ecosystem, first with Line6 (doomed as it became), then Soundiron for the Klang/Pangea/Humana trio, the Softube guitar & bass amps and even Lectric Panda coding a Propellerhead-branded player.

As a user in favor of Rack Extensions almost exclusively, I find myself wondering what the incentive is for developers to keep supporting the format.

how is this any different than any other product? new stuff comes out that's better, rendering older stuff less appealing. the idea that a software company should be constantly trying to make sure they never step on any toes isn't at all practical.

the flip side is that RE devs have the ability to update their devices, and can even charge more for them after doing so. sure, certain Reason stock devices could replace the need for some users to buy existing Rack Extensions, as they are today, but that doesn't preclude those devs from improving their offerings to make them more appealing.

the Rack Extension vs. VST thing is a different question, but I agree, it's something they'll probably need to do something about, to keep new devices coming, otherwise, we're likely to see more Players than anything else.

[mcatalao]

While i really like Matt's work and i do understand his frustration, but releasing a more or less general purpose device is prone to have its competitors.

What i mean is the 30 or 40 compressors in the shop, can't take punches to their guts from each other nor Reason Studios can they? So why on hearth would it be different for a chorus?? Because they work with buckets? It's a design that's around for ages, so...

There's a key point of difference between third party competitors, and what we might describe as a partnership. I'm not aware of the timeline on releases, but Jiggery Pokery seems to have been making Rack Extensions since the inception of the technology. A time when support for a closed ecosystem needed a whole lot of support for it's success, and for the whole DAW to have a future. Even when a lot of the early developers dropped out (sugarbytes, U-he, Korg, Ochen and others I can't recall at this time), JP's kept up with providing new and interesting content to keep things varied and exciting, and in my view is one of the 'big 4' mainstays of recent years.

For a 'partner' (in this case Propellerhead/Reason Studios) to turn around and release a stock product like this is sure to mean an abrupt end to (m)any future sales of that device. Everyone who already uses the platform as was in need of a powerful Chorus will have already bought it. Those who haven't but took the R11 upgrade won't be as likely to buy, nor will any buyers new to the platform.

Perhaps there might have been a better solution, rather than simply powering in to a new release and making a partner's product redundant. Perhaps they may have approached Jiggery Pokery and offered a buy-out based on the past few years sales, plus a little extra on top, and integrated Chenille as it is, into the stock device offerings. The precedent has already been set with third party contributions into the Reason ecosystem, first with Line6 (doomed as it became), then Soundiron for the Klang/Pangea/Humana trio, the Softube guitar & bass amps and even Lectric Panda coding a Propellerhead-branded player.

As a user in favor of Rack Extensions almost exclusively, I find myself wondering what the incentive is for developers to keep supporting the format.

I'm sorry i can't agree with this. Not only IMHO Quartet Chorus Ensemble is different than Chenille as it is a 4 function device, and Chenille is a device that creates a multitude of more exquisite and lusher chorus... Oh and its unison function is great. So, having both I'd say they both have place for my stuff as it seems i always get more aggressive results from Quartet and it has the additional functions, but for straight choruses and unison, chenille it is.

Of course someone who has a chorus in Reason will think twice before buying Chenille, but that didn't detained me from buying Tsar-1 and Uhbik A having RV7000, or 3 compressors from McDsp, another one from Cakewalk, and another one from Softube having the mixer compressor, plus the rest of the lot. What i mean is the fact that you create a device, doesn't mean another one can't build a device with the same function no matter who they are. If Ikea does furniture and builds a chair, another brand makes a chair and they shouldn't pick a fight.

I understand the partnership idea, BUT.... The things have already happened the way around. Propellerheads clearly made a stand creating their own Re's from the start, i remember they Released PX7 and a bunch of other stuff right in the beginning. Some time later, Blamsoft created Zero, and primal audio created FM4. Nobody came out saying they were going against RS themselves (and then Blamsoft created Expanse, then RS created Europa, and so on and on)...

I'm not defending anyone. This is something that happened since the inception of plugins of any form. Steinberg has done VST's since they released them, they had a lot of products, like Virtual Guitarrist, Halion and so on. And vice versa.

What i mean is no matter what you do, a lot of stuff has overlapped since then and will keep overlapping between whoever keeps doing plugins. And RS clearly has some kind of division to keep doing Re's, add devices to new releases, and keep evolving the app and the rack as a plugin.

Is it fair for developers? I don't know. A lot of people are not willing to upgrade to Reason 11, but the price of chenille and something similar to the other phaser might get you to the same price tag, so it sure seems fair for users. For developers, I really don't know.

The market is free, and to my knowledge Reason Studios/Propellerheads agreement with the developers does not have a non aggression agreement (commercially speaking i mean).

[Proboscis]

Do you guys really need to quote entire posts, and the ones prior, especially when they have a high word count ? We're all in the same thread, there's nothing to lose track of. Making a thread 20x more mobile screens longer than it needs to be is not conducive to good user experience.

Anyway, I've stated my opinion on the Chorus, and y'all have stated yours. I maintain that Reason Studios are not supporting the continued success of those who contributed to Reason's success in the first place.

[miscend]

Perhaps there might have been a better solution, rather than simply powering in to a new release and making a partner's product redundant. Perhaps they may have approached Jiggery Pokery and offered a buy-out based on the past few years sales, plus a little extra on top, and integrated Chenille as it is, into the stock device offerings. The precedent has already been set with third party contributions into the Reason ecosystem, first with Line6 (doomed as it became), then Soundiron for the Klang/Pangea/Humana trio, the Softube guitar & bass amps and even Lectric Panda coding a Propellerhead-branded player.

How would that be a solution? Chenille was not the first and is not the only chorus effect in the shop, in fact there are many of them. How about Red Rock Sound or Synapse Audio - why Jiggery Pokery get bought out before the others? In any case Quartet is different to Chenille, having one does not suddenly make the other redundant. That's like suggesting we shouldn't have any other EQs or reverbs. There's a good case for having a variety of chorus modulation devices.

[EnochLight]

Do you guys really need to quote entire posts, and the ones prior, especially when they have a high word count ? We're all in the same thread, there's nothing to lose track of. Making a thread 20x more mobile screens longer than it needs to be is not conducive to good user experience.

Anyway, I've stated my opinion on the Chorus, and y'all have stated yours. I maintain that Reason Studios are not supporting the continued success of those who contributed to Reason's success in the first place.

Well, I guess it might make things easier (for mobile readers, anyway).

[antic604]

Yeah, like a suicide to solve your life's problems.

Come on now, seriously? How is releasing Reason's rack as a VST plugin - while still supporting the core DAW standalone - comparable to "suicide"?

I'll wait.

I'm not equating releasing Rack VST to suicide! I'm merely commenting on the fact that RS chose an "easy" (seemingly, not saying suisice is easy!) way out from the tough situation, that'd require lots of work to properly resolve. Instead of working towards making Reason a DAW of choice for new users, they chose to insert piece of Reason into other DAWs. It's probably a good decision financially especially in short term, but going forward it can determine the future of Reason as a full-fledged DAW, which - I guess - we all care for to exist?

[guitfnky]

Do you guys really need to quote entire posts, and the ones prior, especially when they have a high word count ? We're all in the same thread, there's nothing to lose track of. Making a thread 20x more mobile screens longer than it needs to be is not conducive to good user experience.

well, quoting on mobile is easier if you quote the entire post. editing so you have just the section you're responding to is really a pain in the ass on an iPhone, for example. sorry to abuse your scrolling fingers. I've long wished they'd limit the number of replies per page to 15, which would help a ton.

[antic604]

And he wrote this stupid comment on World Mental Health Day. What an asshole.

Wow, really? You're one of those snowlfake people? I can't talk about gay people in Pride Month or black people in Black History Month? Or look at cars on public transport day?!

And also, in my family (on wife's side) we had two suicides and one unsuccesful attempt and - much closer to home - we fought and won for almost 2 years with a severe depression and suicidal thoughts of our son. So believe me, suicide is a not light subject here, but it also is not a taboo and we can joke about it, too. Stop living in a fantasy world, where not saying something makes the problem go away...

[EnochLight]

I'm not equating releasing Rack VST to suicide! I'm merely commenting on the fact that RS chose an "easy" (seemingly, not saying suisice is easy!) way out from the tough situation, that'd require lots of work to properly resolve. Instead of working towards making Reason a DAW of choice for new users, they chose to insert piece of Reason into other DAWs. It's probably a good decision financially especially in short term, but going forward it can determine the future of Reason as a full-fledged DAW, which - I guess - we all care for to exist?

I hear you. Yes, I’d say we all do.

[Proboscis]

Wow, really? You're one of those snowlfake people? I can't talk about gay people in Pride Month or black people in Black History Month? Or look at cars on public transport day?!

A snowflake, hey ? You've been called out by three people - either humbly accept the criticism (which you're not), or ignore it and keep being a bonehead (which you are), it's up to you. If you'd have said "Reason Studio's release decision is commercial suicide", the context would be entirely different.

[guitfnky]

Wow, really? You're one of those snowlfake people?

good god, man...