Thoughts on reason Studios

[calebbrennan]

For the release of 11 they do something kind of brilliant responded to all batch that reason should do like Ableton or like this program Cubase or like logic

Instead they just created a module that can open up in any Daw
that's a creative way to solve the problem

[dezma]

Or they just admitted they really suck in evolving to a capable sequencer. It all depends on the way you look at things.

[antic604]

that's a creative way to solve the problem

Yeah, like a suicide to solve your life's problems.

[EdGrip]

"Propellerhead lawn mowers have great engines but they're shit at cutting grass"

Propellerhead: "You can now use our engines on your favourite lawn mower"

Us: "Hooray! The best of both worlds!"

I'm being facetious, of course - Reason Rack in Live is loadsa fun.

[kinkujin]

ProTools - You should use these scissors to cut your lawn.

[jlgrimes]

Or they just admitted they really suck in evolving to a capable sequencer. It all depends on the way you look at things.

I agree it is sort of a cop out. Rack VST would have been dope though for a 10.5 release though.

[VariableX]

I guess i don't know what im missing obviously, but,
i think the Reason sequencer is pretty damn good!

[EnochLight]

Yeah, like a suicide to solve your life's problems.

Come on now, seriously? How is releasing Reason's rack as a VST plugin - while still supporting the core DAW standalone - comparable to "suicide"?

I'll wait.

[aeox]

I guess i don't know what im missing obviously, but,
i think the Reason sequencer is pretty damn good!

Best sequencer I've used so far

[moneykube]

what is not to love?
so shiny and new

[Proboscis]

Yeah, like a suicide to solve your life's problems.

Come on now, seriously? How is releasing Reason's rack as a VST plugin - while still supporting the core DAW standalone - comparable to "suicide"?

I'll wait.

And he wrote this stupid comment on World Mental Health Day. What an asshole.

[ShelLuser]

For the release of 11 they do something kind of brilliant responded to all batch that reason should do like Ableton or like this program Cubase or like logic

Instead they just created a module that can open up in any Daw
that's a creative way to solve the problem

The main problem I have with this personally is that said module doesn't even come close to all the stuff I could do with Reason as a rewire slave. I've been using Reason as a heavily favored extension to Live for 9 years but now that the Props have dropped ReWire support (which basically means that I can on longer depend on future Reason releases to enhance my Live setup) I have ("had") a serious problem to address.

I honestly don't enjoy being so negative but to me the VST has been a serious step backwards. For starters the issue of only having 1 audio output channel vs. several. That is huge. Then there's a smaller issue of not being able to press tab to flip the rack or del to remove a device.

Therefor I ended up removing Reason 11 and jumping on the Komplete 12 bandwagon (something I had been considering for quite a while now) for the simple reason that as much as I hate saying this... I think you can rely on Native Instruments much more not to suddenly discontinue all they stood for (Reason has always been a ReWire slave, never a host...).

And I think this is a dangerous game. I can definitely see how the VST can appeal to people who haven't been using Reason all that much. But what about the community itself? You know; the already established Reason users?

Reason 10 added Europa (holy moly!), Grain and Klang, Pangea and Humana (personal favorite!!).

Reason 11 otoh decided to put most of their attention to the VST. Which I am sure will not impress people who have been working with Reason as their main DAW. Nor will it impress people who were already seriously using Reason to expand on their main DAW.

So the way I see it is that R.S. should hope that more people will be coming (back) in than those who will be leaving ship. Which is a very dangerous game if you ask me because... you can't be sure.

Think about it... I upgraded from Reason 6 to Reason 10 (and I loved every part of it!). This included a free upgrade to Reason 11. I also bought heavily into some RE's because despite all my criticism and negativity I still plan on using Reason (10) as my main mixing & mastering setup. But here's the problem: I'm pretty sure that Reason 10 (/11) will be the last version I purchased because the only way to use Reason with my DAW of choice is the VST which plain out doesn't weigh up against rewire. Sure; they may fix things eventually (the VST is honestly plain out bugged) but first impressions are huge. Good luck persuading someone to try your product again after they decided that it was shite for them.

That is a huge issue here which I believe should not be underestimated.

And then there's this small issue of "other companies" who honestly know how to VST "better". In the Rack VST I can press delete and nothing happens. In "other VST" I press delete and my component or device or whatever gets removed. If "other VST" can do this but the Props don't... then it becomes pretty difficult to become a believer.

(edit)

I guess i don't know what im missing obviously, but,
i think the Reason sequencer is pretty damn good!

^ THIS

I feel the same way.

[Proboscis]

I can definitely see how the VST can appeal to people who haven't been using Reason all that much. But what about the community itself? You know; the already established Reason users?

Three updates to the sequencer that should have been implemented a decade ago.

That's all that attracts me to Reason 11 as a long term user. And I'm not at all comfortable with paying for that.

I don't exactly see any long positive discussion threads around the chorus device and the modulator, so I take that to mean they're nothing special. And the SSL devices broken out as Rack Extensions... we already have all of these features built right in, don't we ?

Something makes me feel this might be the 'last hurrah' for many - it allows disgruntled users to finally pay a one-time exit fee and be free of Reason altogether. I'm not one of those, as there's no inclination to learn a new DAW, but one positive for me is that I've re-evaluated where I am, and it's compelled me to learn more about the tools I already own (both software and hardware). Reason Studios are unlikely to see another dollar from me for a very long time, save for the occasional commission they earn on a third-party Rack Extension here or there - there are two that I'm holding out for to see if Black Fridays brings a discount - but other than that I don't really feel compelled to buy anything else in the future

When somebody sits down at Reason Studios and says "right - let's fix all the poor design elements that have been abandoned, and address the sequencer shortcomings", then, and only then, will I reconsider my position on upgrading

Reason 11 seems to me like it's aimed at new customers who already use other DAWs. And for them, $399 is an incredible opportunity to purchase a 'mega-instrument'. Let's just hope they hire an outside digital marketing firm to generate interest, because so far that too has fallen way short of what a business should be doing to promote a product like this.

[Jackjackdaw]

I think the strategy behind R11 and the rebrand is all about attracting new users. Existing users on 10.4 dont have much to get excited about but I expect RS are getting a lot more $399 sales from this release. I expect after a year or so of point updates there will be some good incentives for existing users to upgrade.

[soroc sosta]

This...Right Here.

Something makes me feel this might be the 'last hurrah' for many - it allows disgruntled users to finally pay a one-time exit fee and be free of Reason altogether. I'm not one of those, as there's no inclination to learn a new DAW, but one positive for me is that I've re-evaluated where I am, and it's compelled me to learn more about the tools I already own (both software and hardware). Reason Studios are unlikely to see another dollar from me for a very long time, save for the occasional commission they earn on a third-party Rack Extension here or there - there are two that I'm holding out for to see if Black Fridays brings a discount - but other than that I don't really feel compelled to buy anything else in the future

[moneykube]

I can definitely see how the VST can appeal to people who haven't been using Reason all that much. But what about the community itself? You know; the already established Reason users?

Three updates to the sequencer that should have been implemented a decade ago.

That's all that attracts me to Reason 11 as a long term user. And I'm not at all comfortable with paying for that.

I don't exactly see any long positive discussion threads around the chorus device and the modulator, so I take that to mean they're nothing special. And the SSL devices broken out as Rack Extensions... we already have all of these features built right in, don't we ?

Something makes me feel this might be the 'last hurrah' for many - it allows disgruntled users to finally pay a one-time exit fee and be free of Reason altogether. I'm not one of those, as there's no inclination to learn a new DAW, but one positive for me is that I've re-evaluated where I am, and it's compelled me to learn more about the tools I already own (both software and hardware). Reason Studios are unlikely to see another dollar from me for a very long time, save for the occasional commission they earn on a third-party Rack Extension here or there - there are two that I'm holding out for to see if Black Fridays brings a discount - but other than that I don't really feel compelled to buy anything else in the future

When somebody sits down at Reason Studios and says "right - let's fix all the poor design elements that have been abandoned, and address the sequencer shortcomings", then, and only then, will I reconsider my position on upgrading

Reason 11 seems to me like it's aimed at new customers who already use other DAWs. And for them, $399 is an incredible opportunity to purchase a 'mega-instrument'. Let's just hope they hire an outside digital marketing firm to generate interest, because so far that too has fallen way short of what a business should be doing to promote a product like this.

agreed... it is not shiny and new at all... stagnant and old instead imo... still unimpressed, and still waiting for fixes I have waited MANY years for

[guitfnky]

agree with most of this (except for that incredibly stupid/unwarranted comparison to suicide, of course). I think that’s one reason they needed to create a Suite bundle for this release. asking for people to pay $130 for seven improvements to the sequencer, and two new devices of questionable interest (yeah, I’m not counting the SSL stuff) is kind of a joke—you arguably need to want to use Reason as a VST in another DAW for that price to be worthwhile. but if you charge $250 for 16 devices, and throw in the other stuff above, it becomes a much more appealing price point. as long as you don’t already own too many of those devices.

[madmacman]

Therefor I ended up removing Reason 11 and jumping on the Komplete 12 bandwagon (something I had been considering for quite a while now) for the simple reason that as much as I hate saying this... I think you can rely on Native Instruments much more not to suddenly discontinue all they stood for (Reason has always been a ReWire slave, never a host...).

Well, regarding Native Instruments, you did the jump despite recent news? You're quite brave...

https://cdm.link/2019/09/native-instruments-cuts/

[ShelLuser]

Well, regarding Native Instruments, you did the jump despite recent news? You're quite brave...

Nah, I'm merely calculative.

It basically boils down to this: right now I have the best audio setup I could wish for, and even a little more. Live + Push gives me an immense amount of creative control (I can 'do' stuff without even bothering with my keyboard and/or mouse), Reason & ReWire heavily expands on this with both a different workflow and a massive amount of instruments & effects, Max (for Live), which is a programming language, allows me to customize and control pretty much everything I want in Live; it's actually a M4l device which I'm building that allows me more and better control over Reason through Live + Push. Right now Komplete basically fills in all the gaps for me.

Here's the thing: even if all 4 companies (Ableton, Reason Studios, Cycling '74 and Native Instruments) would go bankrupt over night it wouldn't change anything about my current setup. I'll still have what I consider the perfect collection of audio tools. Heck, thanks to Reaktor I can now even build stuff fully aimed at complementing Reason's instruments and/or effects. Sure, it would deprive me of any possible useful update from here on, but who cares?

2 months ago I was still heavily using (and enjoying) Live 9, Reason 6 and Max 5 using my APC40 as the main controller. My current setup has definitely improved a lot since then, but my point is: I've never had problems using "old" or "obsolete" software. Reason 6 may have been years old, it still worked perfectly for me.

So I don't see how that would change, even if N.I. would suddenly go broke.

[fullforce]

Yeah, like a suicide to solve your life's problems.

Come on now, seriously? How is releasing Reason's rack as a VST plugin - while still supporting the core DAW standalone - comparable to "suicide"?

I'll wait.

Oh yeah, if it's not the triggosaurus drama queen here to take everything out of context.

[fullforce]

Three updates to the sequencer that should have been implemented a decade ago.

Church! And there's more!

[EnochLight]

Oh yeah, if it's not the triggosaurus drama queen here to take everything out of context.

Keep your ad hominems to yourself, please - no need to start personal attacks. Let's try to keep the thread on topic.

[flightONE]

I guess i don't know what im missing obviously, but,
i think the Reason sequencer is pretty damn good!

Same here, I specially like Reason's Piano Roll.... I've tried all the major DAWs (except cubase) and I like the Reason the best, even before the 11 improvements...

I started on FL Studio a million years ago and have always been baffled by the step sequencer, later piano roll. they make no sense, specially the hotkeys \, \.for example reason has the sequencer tool keys all in a neat line just like they appear on the screen.. FL makes no sense, they are not in any order or logical arrangement... for example "e" is the select tool... "b" is the Paint tool and "p" is the Draw tool and there are a milion annoying things in FL... Automation clips are weird... undo is inconsistent... and so on...

Ableton sequencer is nice but i hate that it can't pop out to its own window so you have to be resizing the thing around or you have to keep pressing the shift-tab thing ... Session mode is nice and so are the resizable mixer meters, but I can work so much faster in Reason..

Also horizontal and vertical scrolling with Mice wheels is hit/miss depending on DAW / weird mouse drivers (specially on Windows) but reason seems to be the most consistent and the most logical to use.

But by far the thing I love the most about Reason is the stability ( i know some people have had bad luck, but Reason has always been really stable for me, even after VSTs.

What I really want for 11.1 is VST inside the plugin (so i can use my Combinator patches that have VSTs), a list that shows me which plugins/REs are missing when you open a song/plugin patch (like the missing samples window, i don;t want to go open all the rack and combis just to find the missing one) and PLEASSSSEE add hotkeys to the plugin (i keep hitting tab and k all the time and nothing happens.. then i remember I have to click the button thing with the mouse... so uncivilized)...

[Carpainter]

I prefer Reason as a Rewire slave to Reason as a VST. Shame Rewire will probably become legacy software that no DAW bothers to support.

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster. It's basically CF-101 and UN-16 on steroids. I suppose that's not such a big deal when every synth has decent built-in unison these days, but I feel like this device was made for those of us who still use Thor and/or Subtractor regularly. It's also a pretty big upgrade for guitarists.

[MrFigg]

I prefer Reason as a Rewire slave to Reason as a VST. Shame Rewire will probably become legacy software that no DAW bothers to support.

Quartet Chorus Ensemble is a pretty sweet device, though. I feel like the sweetness of this device has gotten lost in the shuffle because the rest of the upgrade is so lackluster. It's basically CF-101 and UN-16 on steroids. I suppose that's not such a big deal when every synth has decent built-in unison these days, but I feel like this device was made for those of us who still use Thor and/or Subtractor regularly. It's also a pretty big upgrade for guitarists.

Sorry. I missed that. What’s good for guitarists about the upgrade? Genuinely asking.