440 +/- tuning per song

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WeLoveYouToo
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Location: portland, or

Post 10 Oct 2019

so, i am pretty sure there is no way around this, but has anyone experimented with alternate tunings?
in the "reason-->preferences-->audio-->master tune" there is a slider which lets you change where middle A is.
i have a couple different songs which all need different tuning.
the most annoying thing is booting reason up one day and starting work on a song, recording to a pitch and metronome, then realizing i just recorded sour notes becasue i had my master tune set to another song file.
i really need a way to save master tune on aper-song level, but since that's probbaly impossible, and hack ideas?
right now i can just tune the individual instruments to the correct "off" pitch, but that can be a headache in other ways.

and in case you are curious, the reason i need this feature is becasue i am working on some tracks with vintage instruments that cannot be tuned to concert A, and i want to capture their nuances but also add some electronic elements.

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BradfordMoeller
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Post 11 Oct 2019

There's a rack extension that might help you with this, MicroTune by Oshen K, slap it in the master section before composing, and off you go!
:reason:)))

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selig
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Post 11 Oct 2019

There may be some confusion using the term "Alternate Tuning", which suggests a scale that doesn't use equal tempered intervals, vs an overall tuning shift using the Master Tune control.
Assuming you're talking about the Master Tune control, and you're not wanting to use alternate tuning tables for an instrument, you are correct that the setting is not saved "per song". It is saved for the entire application, meaning it's saved even if you quit and re-launch Reason, and AFAIK there is no way to have this applied per song (same as sample rate etc. and other controls on the Audio tab of the Prefs). :(
Selig Audio, LLC

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BradfordMoeller
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Post 11 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
11 Oct 2019
There may be some confusion using the term "Alternate Tuning", which suggests a scale that doesn't use equal tempered intervals, vs an overall tuning shift using the Master Tune control.
Assuming you're talking about the Master Tune control, and you're not wanting to use alternate tuning tables for an instrument, you are correct that the setting is not saved "per song". It is saved for the entire application, meaning it's saved even if you quit and re-launch Reason, and AFAIK there is no way to have this applied per song (same as sample rate etc. and other controls on the Audio tab of the Prefs). :(
True; I should have been more clear as well- the rack extension I mentioned could be used for this, but you'd be tuning all of the notes in tandem, (I.e. each note tuned up 16 cents to get very close to A=444hz, or each note tuned down 32 cents to get very close to A=432hz), so you'd still maybe need to adjust per song, even if saved In the master section of a template.

I'm curious about the logistics of attaining the ability to tune a song/instrument by hz instead of cents within a DAW.
:reason:)))

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selig
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Post 12 Oct 2019

BradfordMoeller wrote:
11 Oct 2019
True; I should have been more clear as well- the rack extension I mentioned could be used for this, but you'd be tuning all of the notes in tandem, (I.e. each note tuned up 16 cents to get very close to A=444hz, or each note tuned down 32 cents to get very close to A=432hz), so you'd still maybe need to adjust per song, even if saved In the master section of a template.

I'm curious about the logistics of attaining the ability to tune a song/instrument by hz instead of cents within a DAW.
"MicroTune" is a monophonic CV device, so you couldn't use it in the master section or on instruments play chords as I understand it (or does it support "polyCV" and not mention it in the shop page?).

Also worth noting, adjusting Master Tune will affect all synths and drum machines (!) but not audio tracks. Plus you only have ±100 cents to work with, so maybe not enough range to accommodate some acoustic instruments if they are really out of tune (thinking old pianos etc, here).

What may be better in the long run is to record your external instruments and then adjust their tuning in the inspector (where you have a wider range to work with). The trade off here is your recorded instruments will be pitch shifted, which may or may not sound as "pristine" as desired (or it may not matter!). You'll may have to try a few different approaches to see which works best.

@WeLoveYouToo
Not knowing your workflow, but one problem with using any non-standard tuning overall is that any acoustic instruments that ARE tuned to A-440 will have to be recorded and tuned internally - in the end I would rather adjust the pitch of ONE instrument that is out of tune rather than "every instrument but one" in a song.
Selig Audio, LLC

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ljekio
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Post 12 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
12 Oct 2019

@WeLoveYouToo
Not knowing your workflow, but one problem with using any non-standard tuning overall is that any acoustic instruments that ARE tuned to A-440 will have to be recorded and tuned internally - in the end I would rather adjust the pitch of ONE instrument that is out of tune rather than "every instrument but one" in a song.
Theoretically it can shift audiotracks to master tune too. With embedded pitch shift.
Afair, Cubase can tune audiotrack follow to master tune.

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selig
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Post 12 Oct 2019

ljekio wrote:
12 Oct 2019

Theoretically it can shift audiotracks to master tune too. With embedded pitch shift.
Afair, Cubase can tune audiotrack follow to master tune.
Wait - do you mean "theoretically Reason Studios could ADD this ability with some future update", or is there some workaround you're aware of that could implement this?
Selig Audio, LLC

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ljekio
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Post 12 Oct 2019

No, of course I meant the first option. With hope for the future (although I personally do not need it).
I just wanted to say that if desired, this can be arranged not only for MIDI and synthesizers, but also for audio.

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BradfordMoeller
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Post 12 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
12 Oct 2019
BradfordMoeller wrote:
11 Oct 2019
True; I should have been more clear as well- the rack extension I mentioned could be used for this, but you'd be tuning all of the notes in tandem, (I.e. each note tuned up 16 cents to get very close to A=444hz, or each note tuned down 32 cents to get very close to A=432hz), so you'd still maybe need to adjust per song, even if saved In the master section of a template.

I'm curious about the logistics of attaining the ability to tune a song/instrument by hz instead of cents within a DAW.
"MicroTune" is a monophonic CV device, so you couldn't use it in the master section or on instruments play chords as I understand it (or does it support "polyCV" and not mention it in the shop page?).

Also worth noting, adjusting Master Tune will affect all synths and drum machines (!) but not audio tracks. Plus you only have ±100 cents to work with, so maybe not enough range to accommodate some acoustic instruments if they are really out of tune (thinking old pianos etc, here).

What may be better in the long run is to record your external instruments and then adjust their tuning in the inspector (where you have a wider range to work with). The trade off here is your recorded instruments will be pitch shifted, which may or may not sound as "pristine" as desired (or it may not matter!). You'll may have to try a few different approaches to see which works best.

@WeLoveYouToo
Not knowing your workflow, but one problem with using any non-standard tuning overall is that any acoustic instruments that ARE tuned to A-440 will have to be recorded and tuned internally - in the end I would rather adjust the pitch of ONE instrument that is out of tune rather than "every instrument but one" in a song.
Ah right! Thank you, its been so long since I've used it.
:reason:)))

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WeLoveYouToo
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Location: portland, or

Post 29 Oct 2019

selig wrote:
12 Oct 2019
BradfordMoeller wrote:
11 Oct 2019
True; I should have been more clear as well- the rack extension I mentioned could be used for this, but you'd be tuning all of the notes in tandem, (I.e. each note tuned up 16 cents to get very close to A=444hz, or each note tuned down 32 cents to get very close to A=432hz), so you'd still maybe need to adjust per song, even if saved In the master section of a template.

I'm curious about the logistics of attaining the ability to tune a song/instrument by hz instead of cents within a DAW.
"MicroTune" is a monophonic CV device, so you couldn't use it in the master section or on instruments play chords as I understand it (or does it support "polyCV" and not mention it in the shop page?).

Also worth noting, adjusting Master Tune will affect all synths and drum machines (!) but not audio tracks. Plus you only have ±100 cents to work with, so maybe not enough range to accommodate some acoustic instruments if they are really out of tune (thinking old pianos etc, here).

What may be better in the long run is to record your external instruments and then adjust their tuning in the inspector (where you have a wider range to work with). The trade off here is your recorded instruments will be pitch shifted, which may or may not sound as "pristine" as desired (or it may not matter!). You'll may have to try a few different approaches to see which works best.

@WeLoveYouToo
Not knowing your workflow, but one problem with using any non-standard tuning overall is that any acoustic instruments that ARE tuned to A-440 will have to be recorded and tuned internally - in the end I would rather adjust the pitch of ONE instrument that is out of tune rather than "every instrument but one" in a song.
specifically i have a wondwrful old harmonium that is almost exactly a half-note out of tune. it is entirely wooden, and can’t be tuned. since no note is *perfectly* in tune with middle A, it doesn’t really matter just vs equal temperment. i can get an ok sound in melodyne pitch shifting chords played on it, but the beat so,ution i found was this free reason rack device which allows you to type words. thats it. it has no musical function, it is essentially a post it note in rack form. i slapped that on top of the rack and wrote “change tuning to +28cents”.
and this reminds me to change it whenever i work on a song with the harmonium. the trick is to change it back, but like you said, when i load up a so g and the vocal line is hella out of tune, it reminds me that i need to change it back. also, thanks for pointing out that master tune applies to drum machines. never would have realized that without hearing a pitched drum probably.

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Reasonable man
Posts: 461
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Post 29 Oct 2019

WeLoveYouToo wrote:
29 Oct 2019
selig wrote:
12 Oct 2019


"MicroTune" is a monophonic CV device, so you couldn't use it in the master section or on instruments play chords as I understand it (or does it support "polyCV" and not mention it in the shop page?).

Also worth noting, adjusting Master Tune will affect all synths and drum machines (!) but not audio tracks. Plus you only have ±100 cents to work with, so maybe not enough range to accommodate some acoustic instruments if they are really out of tune (thinking old pianos etc, here).

What may be better in the long run is to record your external instruments and then adjust their tuning in the inspector (where you have a wider range to work with). The trade off here is your recorded instruments will be pitch shifted, which may or may not sound as "pristine" as desired (or it may not matter!). You'll may have to try a few different approaches to see which works best.

@WeLoveYouToo
Not knowing your workflow, but one problem with using any non-standard tuning overall is that any acoustic instruments that ARE tuned to A-440 will have to be recorded and tuned internally - in the end I would rather adjust the pitch of ONE instrument that is out of tune rather than "every instrument but one" in a song.
specifically i have a wondwrful old harmonium that is almost exactly a half-note out of tune. it is entirely wooden, and can’t be tuned. since no note is *perfectly* in tune with middle A, it doesn’t really matter just vs equal temperment. i can get an ok sound in melodyne pitch shifting chords played on it, but the beat so,ution i found was this free reason rack device which allows you to type words. thats it. it has no musical function, it is essentially a post it note in rack form. i slapped that on top of the rack and wrote “change tuning to +28cents”.
and this reminds me to change it whenever i work on a song with the harmonium. the trick is to change it back, but like you said, when i load up a so g and the vocal line is hella out of tune, it reminds me that i need to change it back. also, thanks for pointing out that master tune applies to drum machines. never would have realized that without hearing a pitched drum probably.
Did you 'find' the harmonium? :puf_bigsmile:

reggie1979
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Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 29 Oct 2019

Pfffft, everyone knows you should tune to 432 :roll:

xboix
Posts: 181
Joined: 22 Oct 2019

Post 30 Oct 2019

We're heading off topic but here are excellent snippets from Wikipedia on "Concert Pitch"

- A = 440 Hz is the only official standard and is widely used around the world. Many orchestras in the United Kingdom adhere to this standard as concert pitch.

- In the United States some orchestras use A = 440 Hz, while others, such as the New York Philharmonic, use A = 442 Hz.

- A = 442 Hz is also often used as a tuning frequency in Europe, especially in Denmark, France, Hungary, Italy, Norway and Switzerland.

- Nearly all modern symphony orchestras in Germany and Austria and many in other countries in continental Europe (such as Russia, Sweden and Spain) tune to A = 443 Hz.

- Many modern ensembles which specialize in the performance of Baroque music have agreed on a standard of A = 415 Hz

- Highland pipe bands continue to use an even sharper tuning, around A = 470–480 Hz, over a semitone higher than 440 Hz.

And my favourite:

- Orchestras in Cuba typically use A = 436 Hz so that strings, which are difficult to obtain, last longer!

reggie1979
Posts: 1181
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 30 Oct 2019

Mine was just a running joke.

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WeLoveYouToo
Posts: 179
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Location: portland, or

Post 31 Oct 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
29 Oct 2019
Pfffft, everyone knows you should tune to 432 :roll:
:thumbs_up:

440 is for amateurs.

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