PSA for Mac Reason users: Hold off on updating to macOS 10.15 Catalina

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IFR
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Post 05 Oct 2019

Bod wrote:
05 Oct 2019
I thought Macs "just work" right? ;)
Never had a problem.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 06 Oct 2019

Alright ... well anyways, as Enoch said hold off.

I've received emails from just about every major plugin/ daw companies on chill out about upgrading.

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Oct 2019

OMG the number of times using a work laptop that is running Windows and it wants to update WHEN I SHUT IT DOWN. What better time to update without an option to not update, then the moment I want the computer to turn off lol. I'm shutting the thing down! Now is exactly not the time! It's a laptop—I'm ready to go. Can't close the lid, because then the update breaks and the laptop overheats.

Speaking of, there is a very recent update to Windows 10 that killed most all the computers at my job—you can't even boot them now. It's confirmed by Microsoft. Never mind worrying about an optional upgrade to an OS which some of your software might not yet work 100% with if the developers weren't testing and building while it was in beta. Imagine not being able to even boot your computer. So be on the lookout for that.

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EnochLight
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Post 07 Oct 2019

joeyluck wrote:
07 Oct 2019
OMG the number of times using a work laptop that is running Windows and it wants to update WHEN I SHUT IT DOWN. What better time to update without an option to not update, then the moment I want the computer to turn off lol. I'm shutting the thing down! Now is exactly not the time! It's a laptop—I'm ready to go. Can't close the lid, because then the update breaks and the laptop overheats.

Speaking of, there is a very recent update to Windows 10 that killed most all the computers at my job—you can't even boot them now. It's confirmed by Microsoft. Never mind worrying about an optional upgrade to an OS which some of your software might not yet work 100% with if the developers weren't testing and building while it was in beta. Imagine not being able to even boot your computer. So be on the lookout for that.
Yeah but, we're talking about macOS 10.15 Catalina and how it breaks a shit ton of DAW and other software. Everything's working fine on Windows, to my knowledge. :thumbs_up: :D :) :P
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Oct 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 Oct 2019
joeyluck wrote:
07 Oct 2019
OMG the number of times using a work laptop that is running Windows and it wants to update WHEN I SHUT IT DOWN. What better time to update without an option to not update, then the moment I want the computer to turn off lol. I'm shutting the thing down! Now is exactly not the time! It's a laptop—I'm ready to go. Can't close the lid, because then the update breaks and the laptop overheats.

Speaking of, there is a very recent update to Windows 10 that killed most all the computers at my job—you can't even boot them now. It's confirmed by Microsoft. Never mind worrying about an optional upgrade to an OS which some of your software might not yet work 100% with if the developers weren't testing and building while it was in beta. Imagine not being able to even boot your computer. So be on the lookout for that.
Yeah but, we're talking about macOS 10.15 Catalina and how it breaks a shit ton of DAW and other software. Everything's working fine on Windows, to my knowledge. :thumbs_up: :D :) :P
Point being is this is an upgrade to a new version. And while Apple makes them free, it is still something you have to choose to get from the App Store. I'm not sure why certain developers weren't more on top of this, it's been in beta for months.

Mojave supposedly didn't break anything, but the developers who hadn't yet tested still wisely put out disclaimers that they hadn't yet verified compatibility. Same with Windows 10. It was months after release before a huge list of developers gave the OK. So whether things are reported broken on day 1 or not, nobody who has countless plugins and pieces of software should update on day 1. So hopefully it serves as a lesson to any customer to not update an OS without checking first...and just wait a bit.

Now that I'm using VSTs and more software these days, I am not going to update macOS or Windows just because a new version is available. Years ago, I just had to check with a few developers. Now I need a spreadsheet. Sweetwater does a great job keeping track of developer compatibility announcements. I also found the auto-update feature on Windows and turned that off on the computers not yet broken, so hopefully that works. I think this is the update that affected some of the Windows computers at work: https://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkell ... 2c01b750c1

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EnochLight
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Post 07 Oct 2019

joeyluck wrote:
07 Oct 2019
EnochLight wrote:
07 Oct 2019


Yeah but, we're talking about macOS 10.15 Catalina and how it breaks a shit ton of DAW and other software. Everything's working fine on Windows, to my knowledge. :thumbs_up: :D :) :P
Point being is this is an upgrade to a new version. And while Apple makes them free, it is still something you have to choose to get from the App Store. I'm not sure why certain developers weren't more on top of this, it's been in beta for months.
You know us Apple users - we're a funny bunch. We often check for software updates, and just assume it's going to improve OSX/iOS/iPad OS, etc, and blindly upgrade. I think that's why the PSA was important.

Compare iPhone users - who generally upgrade iOS almost immediately with over 75% of users doing so, to (say for instance) Google Android - where user upgrades are so fragmented it's pretty much embarrassing (at less than 20%). I know Windows users get popped with random Windows 10 updates, though. I've just not heard of any widespread issues with any particular DAW or plugins on Windows. Have you?
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

BigPictureSound
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Joined: 25 Jun 2019

Post 07 Oct 2019

Catalina is almost done installing on my MacBook Pro, I’ll let ya’ll know how it goes. My iMac is my primary production machine, so am waiting a few months before I update that.

It’s a fairly substantial update, and sidecar is the most anticipated feature for me. Looking forward to native secondary display with my 12.9” iPad pro. RIP Duet, Luna display, and astro, lol. Duet and Astro I believe are both subscription only, so I don’t feel bad for them at all.

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wendylou
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Post 07 Oct 2019

If anyone does update to Catalina, you gotta room full of Reason users who would love to hear how things are working for you.
:PUF_balance: http://www.galxygirl.com -- :reason: user since 2002

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MattiasHG
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Post 08 Oct 2019

wendylou wrote:
07 Oct 2019
If anyone does update to Catalina, you gotta room full of Reason users who would love to hear how things are working for you.
I really should re-iterate that we don't recommend updating yet, regardless of a user report. There could be things that user isn't doing that doesn't work (like installing Reason or running plugins). We'll update our compatibility statement as soon as we have more information.

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QVprod
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Post 08 Oct 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 Oct 2019
joeyluck wrote:
07 Oct 2019


Point being is this is an upgrade to a new version. And while Apple makes them free, it is still something you have to choose to get from the App Store. I'm not sure why certain developers weren't more on top of this, it's been in beta for months.
You know us Apple users - we're a funny bunch. We often check for software updates, and just assume it's going to improve OSX/iOS/iPad OS, etc, and blindly upgrade. I think that's why the PSA was important.

Compare iPhone users - who generally upgrade iOS almost immediately with over 75% of users doing so, to (say for instance) Google Android - where user upgrades are so fragmented it's pretty much embarrassing (at less than 20%). I know Windows users get popped with random Windows 10 updates, though. I've just not heard of any widespread issues with any particular DAW or plugins on Windows. Have you?
If there was ever going to be a Windows 11, I'm sure the same PSA would've applied. It's a bit harder to do a PSA for updates that install automatically. There's no PSAs for minor and security Mac OS updates. Just new OS versions. For the sake of the less computer literate folk, I appreciate that breaking stuff is innately optional rather than something to opt out of.

Heater
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Post 08 Oct 2019

Just got home from work and updating now. I hope it installs before I’m due to go out (early evening).

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wendylou
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Location: Saint Joseph, MO

Post 08 Oct 2019

Well color me crazy, but I decided to take the leap and go Catalina with Reason Studio 11. I've always been a "pathfinder" and figured I'll deal with whatever bugs may crop up. So far, everything is working well, except for my old Line 6 "Pod Farm 2 Platinum" 32-bit VSTs that I only worked previously because I was using JBridgeM to keep 32-bit VSTs going in a 64-bit environment. But Catalina killed off 32-bit support, so that's now dead. But no worries since I have all the entire suite of Kuassa guitar amps and effects, which does most of what I want for guitar. There may be some minor issues with mouse clicks, not sure, but otherwise, it's working well for me. Tested with my previous device-heavy songs and it's rocking.
MattiasHG wrote:
08 Oct 2019
wendylou wrote:
07 Oct 2019
If anyone does update to Catalina, you gotta room full of Reason users who would love to hear how things are working for you.
I really should re-iterate that we don't recommend updating yet, regardless of a user report. There could be things that user isn't doing that doesn't work (like installing Reason or running plugins). We'll update our compatibility statement as soon as we have more information.
Thanks Mattias. This is the very first time I have not updated Mac OS due to all the concerns from many vendors.
Last edited by wendylou on 11 Oct 2019, edited 2 times in total.
:PUF_balance: http://www.galxygirl.com -- :reason: user since 2002

BigPictureSound
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Joined: 25 Jun 2019

Post 08 Oct 2019

wendylou wrote:
07 Oct 2019
If anyone does update to Catalina, you gotta room full of Reason users who would love to hear how things are working for you.
I only tested for about 30 minutes but it ran fine. In fact, I played around with Sidecar and displayed and controlled Reason on my iPad from across the room using the Apple Pencil to automate some parameters and tweak knobs. Running the mixer window on sidecar display and controlling faders with a pencil is pretty cool.

Installing Catalina was kind of a pain in the ass, so be prepared to be patient. The 8gb download timed-out about a dozen times, and when it finally finished, installing threw a “corrupt installer” warning (false positive) so I had to go to applications, open the installers folder, find some file and delete.

OS is running fine at the moment.

Heater
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 08 Oct 2019

Installed on my 2015 MacBook pro. Reason seems to run fine without issue. Tomorrow evening I will connect to my main interface (Behringer UMC1820 ) and test again.

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vondersulzburg
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Post 09 Oct 2019

Reason 10 and Bitwig with no problems on Catalina. No deep testing but basic functions are working as before.
MacBook Air 512GB SSD 16GB RAM, Reason 10, LogicProX, FL-Studio and now again StudioOne V4.5 maybe because of the price value (76€ from 2 to 4.5).

BigPictureSound
Posts: 40
Joined: 25 Jun 2019

Post 09 Oct 2019

I remember the Windows 7 to 10 update being a mess. I haven't been keeping up with Windows updates for the past two years since switching to Mac, but since 10's release in July of 2015, while it has undergone many small improvements, nothing exciting or interesting has really been added in four years.

On the other hand, in the same four years Apple has released El Capitan, Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave, and finally Catalina- all boasting some pretty awesome features to the OS and Apple ecosystem.

I'm not here to say Mac is better, but it's rapid development pace and forward-thinking is something that I enjoy, even though it may put a strain on 3rd party compatibility at times. For now, Catalina works great with my existing applications.

The only issue I run into that has been ongoing since Mojave is Reason failing to suspend in sleep and draining the battery to 0.

Jmax
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Joined: 03 Apr 2015

Post 09 Oct 2019

The only piece of Apple hardware I have is an iPad. A beautiful device. (Had the Samsung S2 Tablet which costs about the same but is terrible I must admit(
I used to have an iPhone 6 but switched to a Samsung S8 and never looked back.
I was over installing Microsoft Office on my moms 4 yr old Mac Book today. Subscribed to Office 360. Guess what, can't install it because we need to update to a slightly higher Catalina. No problem lets do that... Oops can't do that either (laptop is 4yrs old). Back to the Microsoft store to download an older version of office.
I just look at her Mac Book I think she paid close to $1400 for and think to myself. What a piece of s#$t A 128 GB SD, 8 gig ram dual core machine for how much???
Apple just blatantly rips people off. I'm sorry but it's the case.

I do like there iPad quite a lot, but that's literally their only device I think that's worth the money.

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reddust
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Post 10 Oct 2019

hurricane wrote:
05 Oct 2019
Bod wrote:
05 Oct 2019
I thought Macs "just work" right? ;)
They do. I have 8 Macs and not a single windows pc in the house. It's HEAVEN.
Weird, I have a single iMac at home that stopped working one year ago out of nothing, same with two of them at work.. It's HELL ;)

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MrFigg
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Post 10 Oct 2019

Just got this from Line 6...so it's not just Reason.

"Dear Line 6 Product Owner,

As you may be aware, Apple ® recently released macOS ® Catalina.

Although we are working closely with Apple to ensure our software and drivers are fully compatible with macOS Catalina, we caution you against upgrading until you confirm that your specific Line 6 product is compatible with the new operating system.

The latest information on macOS Catalina compatibility with Line 6 products may be found on our Knowledge Base.

Thanks,

The Line 6 Development Team "
丰2ॐ

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6502
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015

Post 10 Oct 2019

Jmax wrote:
09 Oct 2019
The only piece of Apple hardware I have is an iPad. A beautiful device. (Had the Samsung S2 Tablet which costs about the same but is terrible I must admit(
I used to have an iPhone 6 but switched to a Samsung S8 and never looked back.
I was over installing Microsoft Office on my moms 4 yr old Mac Book today. Subscribed to Office 360. Guess what, can't install it because we need to update to a slightly higher Catalina. No problem lets do that... Oops can't do that either (laptop is 4yrs old). Back to the Microsoft store to download an older version of office.
I just look at her Mac Book I think she paid close to $1400 for and think to myself. What a piece of s#$t A 128 GB SD, 8 gig ram dual core machine for how much???
Apple just blatantly rips people off. I'm sorry but it's the case.

I do like there iPad quite a lot, but that's literally their only device I think that's worth the money.
I hope you can get that all sorted. A 2015 Macbook should be compatible with Catalina according to Apple.

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ScuzzyEye
Posts: 1311
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Post 10 Oct 2019

MrFigg wrote:
10 Oct 2019
Just got this from Line 6...so it's not just Reason.
I got that from Line 6 too. It seems like Celemony is on the ball though.
Free update for your Melodyne 4 studio
Melodyne – Version 4.2.4

The reason for the update is the new Mac operating system macOS 10.15 Catalina, which brings far-reaching technical changes requiring adjustments to the software.

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wendylou
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Location: Saint Joseph, MO

Post 11 Oct 2019

Well color me crazy, but I decided to take the leap and go Catalina with Reason Studio 11. I've always been a "pathfinder" and figured I'll deal with whatever bugs may crop up. So far, everything is working well, except for my old Line 6 "Pod Farm 2 Platinum" 32-bit VSTs that I only worked previously because I was using JBridgeM to keep 32-bit VSTs going in a 64-bit environment. But Catalina killed off 32-bit support, so that's now dead. But no worries since I have all the entire suite of Kuassa guitar amps and effects, which does most of what I want for guitar. There may be some minor issues with mouse clicks, not sure, but otherwise, it's working well for me. Tested with my previous device-heavy songs and it's rocking.
MattiasHG wrote:
08 Oct 2019
wendylou wrote:
07 Oct 2019
If anyone does update to Catalina, you gotta room full of Reason users who would love to hear how things are working for you.
I really should re-iterate that we don't recommend updating yet, regardless of a user report. There could be things that user isn't doing that doesn't work (like installing Reason or running plugins). We'll update our compatibility statement as soon as we have more information.
Thanks Mattias. This is the very first time I have not updated Mac OS due to all the concerns from many vendors.
:PUF_balance: http://www.galxygirl.com -- :reason: user since 2002

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tronam
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Joined: 04 Mar 2015

Post 14 Oct 2019

My transition from Sierra (not HS) to Mojave was very smooth with no compatibility issues and this has generally been my experience over the years with only occasional hiccups; It always seems to take Steinberg a month or two to update the device drivers for my audio interface. Catalina is different though. Not only does it officially kill off all 32-bit application support, but there are some deeper fundamental changes to the way the operating system handles security and even how it structures the system drive. It essentially fuses two separate partitions together into one user visible volume group using a new feature in APFS called firmlinks. This basically sandboxes the systems files from user data which could potentially break all sorts of older app installers that are accustomed to being able to copy files into the system folders. There could also be programs or plugins which may have been 64-bit for ages and yet still might fail to install because they've been using 3rd party installer tools with 32-bit components in them. SonicCharge is a good example of this; 64-bit plugins, but their installers and license authenticator is still 32-bit.

Catalina is the most wary I've ever felt about a macOS/OSX upgrade and I will be waiting a good long while for the dust to settle before installing it. I do like the new features, security improvements and early steps toward iPadOS/macOS crossplatform compatibility for developers, but users who depend on years of accumulated complex applications, utilities, tools and plugins should proceed with caution.
iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, 2019) | Intel 8-Core i9 9900K | Radeon Pro Vega 48 | 48GB RAM

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joeyluck
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Post 14 Oct 2019

Apple does tend to push progress.

Steinberg has killed off VST2. Plugin developers will have to move to making VST3 eventually. Reason will have to support VST3 because of it... Not a bad thing. Reason and other applications have been 64-bit only for a while now. Reason doesn't support 32-bit VSTs anyways. You have to do a workaround of using a bridge. So those other developers will get with it or fall by the wayside. Not the worst thing. I don't have any plugins or apps that are 32-bit only.

Sargie
Posts: 36
Joined: 09 Jun 2016

Post 14 Oct 2019

As others have written before... Catalina is a significant upgrade from Mojave for a number of reasons and can break things...

My mileage with upgrading has been pretty good. I already migrated to all 64 bit only software before so I was prepared for that.

My Reason installation is 11 Suite edition. I have myriad RE’s and VST’s and some hardware synths hooked up.

So far, everything seems to be performing flawlessly since upgrading to Catalina with the exception of a Waves Plugin (Abbey Road Vinyl) not functioning correctly. This maybe because I am on version 9 of this plugin and not the latest version 10.

I’ve probably tried 50-60% of the various plugins so I might be in for more pain later.

For a giggle, I deleted Reason and re-installed it. This worked well but it was necessary to give permissions to certain plugins to access the external disk my audio files live on.

Performance seems to be comparable to what it was before.

Probably the worst part of the upgrade for me is using Crossover (a WINE shell) is off the cards until they update it. Nothing to do with Reason but it means I have to launch a Virtual Machine to load my Windows stuff...

Your mileage may vary, if course, but so far Catalina has been mostly harmless to my productivity.

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