macOS 10.15 Catalina

[boingy]

It's been touched on a little bit in these forums but I'm getting a few emails from music companies warning about using their products with the forthcoming macOS 10.15 Catalina.

Steinberg, Waves, Presonus and IK Multimedia are all advising Mac owners not to upgrade just yet. I'm not clear on what the potential problems might be but I thought it was worth sharing with all you lovely Mac-heads.

[miscend]

From what I heard all applications will have to be notarized in order to even install on Catalina. OpenGL, which is what 99% of VST plug-ins use, is no longer supported. 32-bit is no longer supported. Some other APIs are also deprecated. Catalina itself is also buggy from what I've read on forums, its the buggiest MacOS beta in recent years they say.

[jlgrimes]

From what I heard all applications will have to be notarized in order to even install on Catalina. OpenGL, which is what 99% of VST plug-ins use, is no longer supported. 32-bit is no longer supported. Some other APIs are also deprecated. Catalina itself is also buggy from what I've read on forums, its the buggiest MacOS beta in recent years they say.

Wow. I'm probably going back to Windows on my next computer. My gaming Windows 10 laptop actually seems more stable than my iMac right now, even though the iMac has a better processor.

[gullum]

OpenGL, which is what 99% of VST plug-ins use, is no longer supported.

So then Reason as a stand alone (or any DAW) is screwed for everyone that wants to use VST in the new Catalina

[kuhliloach]

You'll know it's time to re-consider Apple once Tim Cook is gone.

[IFR]

OpenGL, which is what 99% of VST plug-ins use, is no longer supported.

So then Reason as a stand alone (or any DAW) is screwed for everyone that wants to use VST in the new Catalina

I dont think Reason is going to "stop working" overnight:
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"The OpenGL deprecation
Earlier this month, Apple's developer documentation advised that active development has ceased for OpenGL and OpenCL on the Mac, and that the APIs will only get "minor changes" going forward.

"Apps built using OpenGL and OpenCL will continue to run in macOS 10.14, but these legacy technologies are deprecated in macOS 10.14. Games and graphics-intensive apps that use OpenGL should now adopt Metal. Similarly, apps that use OpenCL for computational tasks should now adopt Metal and Metal Performance Shaders," the company noted.

In software, "deprecation" means that a feature has been superseded and that while the old version should still work for the time being, it's advised to stop using it moving forward and to prepare for a future where it is removed entirely.

This created a knee-jerk reaction of clickbait warning that "developers" were revolting and waving pitchforks about the announcement. However, the main uses of OpenGL and OpenCL (the GPU-computation framework that Apple originally developed and shared with the OpenGL community) are in porting low level code between Linux, Windows and Macs.

Most modern games with 3D graphics are not hard coded using low-level OpenGL. Instead, developers make use of higher-level graphics "engine" frameworks such as Epic Games' Unreal Engine 4; Blizzard's WoW and SC2 Engine; or Unity Engine. Like Apple's own higher level graphics frameworks such as SceneKit, SpriteKit and ARKit, these already make native use of Metal under the scenes.

That means the games you play today--and the new titles you'll look for in the future--won't really be impacted by the deprecation of OpenGL. They will, however, be greatly accelerated by Apple's latest advances in low-level silicon and the nearly as low-level Metal plated on top. Additionally, Metal is also supporting the deployment of advanced new applications including multiuser FaceTime in the macOS Mojave Public Beta."
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As with everything, check with the developers before making assumptions. Have we heard for a fact from Props? I dont know. I can't find any info on their site.

[boingy]

That was kinda my point. We haven't heard from Props but we have heard from some of the industry big players like Steinberg and Waves. Catalina has been available as Beta for a while so if there was an easy fix those companies would already have done it. Instead it sounds a bit like they are scratching their heads. The Steinberg announcement is not vague. It says Steinberg products are incompatible with Catalina and that they will provide more info by the end of October:

https://www.steinberg.net/en/newsandeve ... -5225.html

Note that they are not saying there will be a fix by the end of October, just that they might know more about the problem and have some sort of plan by then.

So in the case of Steinberg products it sounds like they *will* stop working overnight if you upgrade. Maybe Reason will be fine or maybe it won't. We won't know until Props say something or until someone tries it.

[IFR]

I would definitely not upgrade. Im still on High Sierra. Im a "if it ain't broke don't fix it kind of person.

I looked, but i haven't been able to find out when open GL is going to be dropped, not depreciated, from the os. So things should be okay for a while. In the meantime I'm not going to upgrade any OS until the vendor specifically says I have to.

never never never never never be an early adopter of an OS unless you're willing to pay the price (or unless you have a second computer)

You wait, the day after Cat drops, we're going to see that guy batch, whining, and complaining in another classic reasontalk "pitchfork post" that his stuff doesn't work. Don't be that guy

Honestly I'm not that worried about it. My stuff works today, and if I don't mess with it, it'll work tomorrow.

[miscend]

Whilst it may not break Reason, nothing official yet from Props, it will break plenty of other software. Especially drivers for audio interfaces. As ever RME are the first to announce new drivers for Catalina, even for older discontinued products. Other companies tend to take longer with new drivers and they won’t update older interfaces that are discontinued.


Your quote above is about 10.14, Catalina is 10.15. Moving to new APIs is not as trivial as you may believe especially for indie developers who are cross platform. Over 30 audio companies so far have told their users not to update.

https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/produc ... cc7e7b3a37

[IFR]

That's why I don't upgrade until i have to.