Ryzen 3000 with Reason

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bigguy1
Posts: 41
Joined: 28 Sep 2018

Post 12 Sep 2019

Hello there,

i am planning to built a new PC (Windows) because my current machine is more than 10 years old. First generation i7 did well in the past but it is time for something new. About one year ago I bought Reason 10 after using Reason 1-3 15 years ago. I am really happy how Reason evolved and especially Version 10 is great in my opinion. But when using some VSTs or Kontakt Libraries my CPU really struggles, even after 10.3 release.

I read a lot about the new Ryzens 3000 and for my scenarios (Video Editing, h265 Rendering, Music Making, Gaming) they have a very good cost/performance ratio.

Some questions that run through my mind currently are:
  • Does Reason benefit from many (8+) cores?
  • Are CPUs like Ryzen 3900/3950 with two dies better than the Ryzens with just one die? I am not working with low buffer settings.
So I would very much appreciate if you guys could share some experience you have with the new Ryzens.

Cheers
Flo

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Lempface
Posts: 157
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 12 Sep 2019

I can't answer all of your questions but I recently upgraded from an FX-8300 to a Ryzen 5 2600X and the performance difference is HUGE! I imagine going w/ a high end Ryzen 3 series would be an even bigger boon.
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate Collector's | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2 | Maschine Jam

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Italophile
Posts: 35
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 12 Sep 2019

I can't answer your question about Reason performance but the following may be of some help.
I recently asked Pete Kaine of UK based DAW pc builders Scan to compare Core 19 9900k with Ryzen 3900X. This was his response:
"When testing the Ryzen 3000 series it was pretty much neck and neck at low latency settings, but once you move above a 128 buffer the Ryzen has it with ease.
There has been more than a few updates by AMD to the chipset since then too and performance seems to have improved a bit, so whilst I do need to retest, I'm fairly confident that its well worth looking at if you don't need super low latency."

From his testing it seems that installing PC3600 memory is key to getting the best results You can read about his testing here, and check the components Scan use in their Ryzen system here.

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esselfortium
Posts: 1248
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 12 Sep 2019

I don't have a Ryzen 3000, but if it helps any, my 8-core i9-9900k performs well on Reason 10.4 and is a significant improvement over the 4-core i7-4790k I had been using previously.

I've had to disable hyperthreading in Reason, though, as it hasn't improved performance on the i9-9900k and has just made it crackly and unstable. This was pretty disappointing to discover, and makes me imagine that some further work on Reason's thread handling could make it run even faster in the future.

bigguy1
Posts: 41
Joined: 28 Sep 2018

Post 12 Sep 2019

Thx a lot for your help. Getting PC3600 memory seems really boosting and is just 10% more cost.
How unfortunate that hyperthreading is of no help.

I'll share my expereince if I have bought. I'm just not sure if I should wait for the upcomming 3950 with 16 cores. This should arrive this month.

RealReasonHead
Posts: 33
Joined: 21 Jun 2019

Post 12 Sep 2019

Look here for DAW related benchmarks (they've already been mentioned by Italophile but not directly linked). The 3900X is at least on par with the 9900K and better in some scenarios.
Italophile wrote:
12 Sep 2019
"[...] There has been more than a few updates by AMD to the chipset since then too and performance seems to have improved a bit, so whilst I do need to retest, I'm fairly confident that its well worth looking at if you don't need super low latency."
While I know that it's not you that made this comment, I'd like to say that it's unlikely that performance has improved. AMD has recently published an AGESA update to address some boost clock issues but the performance gains are negligible.
Italophile wrote:
12 Sep 2019
From his testing it seems that installing PC3600 memory is key to getting the best results
A lot of people seem to think this but Steve from Gamers Nexus came to the conclusion that tighter timings are much more important. 3000 and 3200 kits with tweaked timings beat the stock 3600 kits every time. I would rather look for a good RAM kit with Samsung B-Dies where you can get tighter timings. This will take a while to configure but is definitely worth it, in my opinion. The performance difference was 15-20% on average, IIRC, up to 40% if you take into account one really bad RAM kit they used.

Yonatan
Posts: 831
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 13 Sep 2019

esselfortium wrote:
12 Sep 2019
I've had to disable hyperthreading in Reason, though, as it hasn't improved performance on the i9-9900k and has just made it crackly and unstable. This was pretty disappointing to discover, and makes me imagine that some further work on Reason's thread handling could make it run even faster in the future.
Yesterday I opened a project with lots of RE and 15 tracks. It cracked and could not play it at all.
Unchecked the "hyperthreading" box and now I could play it. I had quite high buffer size.
It was on a MacBook Pro 2013 (i7 quad core) OSX High Sierra, Reason 10.4. My conclusion is that this hyperthreading box seems to be causing more trouble than it solves. RS has to do something about it or inform us exactly why and when to use this option. Now It is as if it read "Hyper buggy crack". :)
Reason for all Seasons

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reddust
Posts: 509
Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 13 Sep 2019

This is an interesting question I'm about to build a new PC too and as I want it to work not only for music but for 3D modeling and animation my first thought was going for a Threadripper with 32 cores (more cores should be good for rendering purposes). But as I want to invest the most on the CPU I really want it to be a good choice for both music and 3D modeling/rendering.

So now I'm hesitating about waiting for the Threadripper 3000 Series (coming out at the end of this month) or taking a closer look at the Intel i9 Extreme Edition Processor. 64GB of RAM should be my minimum, and of course a good graphic card or maybe two of them linked, but I guess this isn't really important for making music.

future-bit
Posts: 158
Joined: 07 May 2017

Post 13 Sep 2019

My computer is also over 10 years old. This is the Xeon E5450 on the 775 chipset and DDR2 800 8 gb. I do not use VST in Reason, but this is not enough when working with Voltage Modular.

I think to take the server processor from the Chinese. For example Xeon 2689 or 2650 v2. This eight-core processors, still powerful at the moment. Motheboard X79 + 64 (16x4) DDR3 1866
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Ad0
Posts: 74
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

Post 14 Nov 2019

Now that 3950x is tested, would reason be able to manage 16 cores properly? I mean then I could disable hyperthreading in Reason too with no worries, since it's 16 *actual* cores.


zoidkirb
Posts: 207
Joined: 18 Nov 2018

Post 14 Nov 2019

Just got my new all amd system. Ryzen 3600, rx580, 16gb ram, m2 hdd, x570 mobo.
Reason is running super smooth here and I've touched no settings at all on Windows, Bios, or Reason. Hyperthreading is on.
My first gen focusrite Scarlett sits happily on 64 frames but won't go below 6ms input latency. Not any issue personally with my re's and vsti's and for guitar I always use direct monitoring anyway.

reggie1979
Posts: 1176
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 14 Nov 2019

Ad0 wrote:
14 Nov 2019
Now that 3950x is tested, would reason be able to manage 16 cores properly? I mean then I could disable hyperthreading in Reason too with no worries, since it's 16 *actual* cores.

I wanted to say, in case it has any bearing whatsoever, I get less than 6ms i/o with my Babyface RME pro with a an old 4770k at 44.1k (not overclocked) So I don't think that these chips have a bearing on that. The driver of your interface is far more important than the clock rate of you chip it seems.

The AMD chips have been known (please don't shoot the messenger) to perform poor at lower buffer/latancies.

As far as hyperthreading is concerned, Reason is "blissfully" underwhelming in this department. It doesn't surprise me at all that it performs better w/o in some cases.

RealReasonHead
Posts: 33
Joined: 21 Jun 2019

Post 15 Nov 2019

My new 3900X performs really well. I can turn down the buffer size to 64, where previously I struggled with it being at 2048 on my 3770.

reggie1979
Posts: 1176
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 15 Nov 2019

RealReasonHead wrote:
15 Nov 2019
My new 3900X performs really well. I can turn down the buffer size to 64, where previously I struggled with it being at 2048 on my 3770.
This is fascinating. Could you give the outside specs and what you did? I'm personally interested in Rynen so all info is welcome.

RealReasonHead
Posts: 33
Joined: 21 Jun 2019

Post 16 Nov 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
15 Nov 2019
This is fascinating. Could you give the outside specs and what you did? I'm personally interested in Rynen so all info is welcome.
What do you mean?

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EnochLight
Posts: 5917
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 17 Nov 2019

Ad0 wrote:
14 Nov 2019
Now that 3950x is tested, would reason be able to manage 16 cores properly? I mean then I could disable hyperthreading in Reason too with no worries, since it's 16 *actual* cores.

Reason handles as many physical cores as you can throw at it. That said, that video - as well as the recent Anandtech review of the Ryzen 9 3950X, do illustrate that single-thread performance still tends to be a category where Intel chips hold their own in many of those tests. But with that many physical cores available (16!), and the 3950X's multi-thread performance simply destroying anything even close to its price point, well... that just makes it super compelling. Just incredible.

I've long toyed with building an AMD machine next, but the Ryzen's were just never a contender for my needs, and Threadripper made too many sacrifices I wasn't willing to make. The Ryzen 9 3950X might be the one thing that makes me build an AMD machine for the first time in over 16 years, even though the memory bandwidth/speed might be a sacrifice I'd have to live with.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

Breach The Sky
Posts: 198
Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Location: Sweden

Post 17 Nov 2019

I remember reading that the Zen 2 (Ryzen 3000) architecture supposedly has a lot of improvements in areas directly related to real-time audio, like floating point operations, latency etc. I would choose Ryzen, more performance for he money.

Ad0
Posts: 74
Joined: 13 Jun 2017

Post 01 Dec 2019

Yeah thanks! A small update, I ended up buying 3950x. I have ordered a mainboard with a good VRM, and still shop around for good cooling.
I am toying with the idea of turning off 2 cores to boost clocks even more.

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EnochLight
Posts: 5917
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 01 Dec 2019

Ad0 wrote:
01 Dec 2019
Yeah thanks! A small update, I ended up buying 3950x. I have ordered a mainboard with a good VRM, and still shop around for good cooling..
The Kraken x64 closed loop cooler is my top contender.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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