WHY are you thinking of changing DAW? (if you are)

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MrFigg
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Joined: 20 Apr 2018

Post 28 Aug 2019

I’m wondering why there’s so much talk just now of switching DAW. No judgement either way. I’m just interested as to why. What I mean is there we are (I’m assuming of course) happily plodding along with Reason 10 then suddenly when Reason 11 comes there’s quite a lot (not sure exactly how many) of people deciding to move. I’d really like to hear what reasons there might be for this. Thanks :).

EdGrip
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 28 Aug 2019

Not moving DAW, so much as finally getting a second DAW. I've wanted a non-linear clip-launcher like Live or Bitwig for ages, just in the interests of having a different playground with a different way of playing. I've put it off because I would want to use all my favourite RE synths and just didn't want to get into ReWire and so just never went for it.
Now I can have VK-2 in Live, I'm gonna be all over that.

fretshot7
Posts: 309
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 28 Aug 2019

Well I've gone from total fan boy to actively looking for a new DAW.

1. My main reason is I don't like Props selling stuff to us like we are mugs.

2. I don't like the fact I have to look at Ableton and FL or whatever else is there in the promotional videos, its like you are advertising the pace car at Indy whilst all your competitors are just waiting to blow past once the race starts. Fills me with no confidence for the future, like i have backed the wrong pony.

3. I can take the rack with me - sweet!

4. I can do all this and upgrade to Reason 12 if they come back with a win, cos don't get me wrong I really do enjoy using Reason 10, I love it.

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antic604
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 28 Aug 2019

EdGrip wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Now I can have VK-2 in Live, I'm gonna be all over that.
You meant in Bitwig ;)
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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antic604
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Post 28 Aug 2019

I look at v11 as a way to get my EUR1.5k+ of REs into my other DAWs for a measly EUR129. That's a great deal :)

The problem however is, I might stop using Reason alltogether, because so far I mainly used it because of the Rack and the devices - native & REs. Now I'll have it available in Bitwig and Cubase directly :(

Actually, yesterday when I got the Beta I spent like 5 minutes trying out Reason's workflow stuff (curved automation, new drawing mode, muting of notes, etc.) and then almost 2h in Bitwig building instrument & FX racks... I'm afraid I'm not the only one. I mean this might be great news for company's cashflow and P&L report, but not necessarily for Reason as a DAW :(
Last edited by antic604 on 28 Aug 2019, edited 2 times in total.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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gdm41
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Post 28 Aug 2019

MrFigg wrote:
28 Aug 2019
I’d really like to hear what reasons there might be for this. Thanks :).
No Sequencerupdate, no GUI overhaul. And the direction PH heading (mobile, reason as vst).
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

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MrFigg
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Post 28 Aug 2019

gdm41 wrote:
28 Aug 2019
MrFigg wrote:
28 Aug 2019
I’d really like to hear what reasons there might be for this. Thanks :).
No Sequencerupdate, no GUI overhaul. And the direction PH heading (mobile, reason as vst).
Again, just out of interest, how long have you been using Reason (without a Sequencer update, GUI overhaul etc) ? I’m just trying to get some sort of understanding of why Reason 11 has had such an influence.

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Raveshaper
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

For me, the reasons for moving on are basic.
  1. Less toxic culture
  2. Better return on investment
  3. Standardized best practices
  4. More results
  5. It fits my way of working better
Nothing fancy.

If I had to get specific beyond that, I simply don't have infinite time to waste on something that isn't working for me.
My time is valuable and I'm going to go where that is respected and honestly supported.

EDIT:
In response to OP's question on how long I've used Reason, etc., 11 has nothing to do with my decision. I have spent more time trying in vain to get Reason to work for me than against me, rather than making music with it. Over the past 2 years I haven't been able to bring myself to even open the app at all. It doesn't inspire me.
Last edited by Raveshaper on 28 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: :ignition: :re: :refillpacker: Enhanced by DataBridge v5

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gdm41
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Post 28 Aug 2019

MrFigg wrote:
28 Aug 2019
gdm41 wrote:
28 Aug 2019


No Sequencerupdate, no GUI overhaul. And the direction PH heading (mobile, reason as vst).
Again, just out of interest, how long have you been using Reason (without a Sequencer update, GUI overhaul etc) ? I’m just trying to get some sort of understanding of why Reason 11 has had such an influence.
Reason 3. And i still love the concept but jumped the sinking ship.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

PhillipOrdonez
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Location: Colombia

Post 28 Aug 2019

Om getting back to ableton after several years (actually, I got back on the lite version at the start of the year due to work) but bought 10 suite before Reason 11 was announced.

I'm still using Reason for work every day and my own music though, and the sequencer updates will come in handy for sure, but I'll just be dabbling in ableton more for my own music again and this update is perfect for me! So I guess I'm not the target for this question 😂 beklager 😂

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MrFigg
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Post 28 Aug 2019

gdm41 wrote:
28 Aug 2019
MrFigg wrote:
28 Aug 2019


Again, just out of interest, how long have you been using Reason (without a Sequencer update, GUI overhaul etc) ? I’m just trying to get some sort of understanding of why Reason 11 has had such an influence.
Reason 3. And i still love the concept but jumped the sinking ship.
Thanks for the answers man. That’s what I’m trying to understand. Why NOW. If they hadn’t announced Reason 11 would you still be doing it or would you still be happy using 10?

olive6741
Posts: 149
Joined: 11 May 2016

Post 28 Aug 2019

EdGrip wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Not moving DAW, so much as finally getting a second DAW. I've wanted a non-linear clip-launcher like Live or Bitwig for ages, just in the interests of having a different playground with a different way of playing. I've put it off because I would want to use all my favourite RE synths and just didn't want to get into ReWire and so just never went for it.
Now I can have VK-2 in Live, I'm gonna be all over that.
Exactly this!

I won't stop using Reason Daw primarily. But now I can try other Daw(s). Just because each of them have specificities and it is quite exciting to renew a bit the way I do music. Honestly I started to (seriously) use iPad, too. I want to try different horizons... The time has come. "Plus on est de fous, plus on rit".

(Note: I've read the whole "disappointment threat(s)" here... but in my case I'm not disappointed - I like this upgrade - the VST part. Even if I'm (was) a "Reason only" user since 2.0 ... - well It was until this happens ; Someone said the more disappointed are the more vocal - it's probably true - as I was thinking while reading all of this "what could I add to this?")

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guitfnky
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Post 28 Aug 2019

because Props are implying I should.

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gdm41
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Post 28 Aug 2019

MrFigg wrote:
28 Aug 2019
gdm41 wrote:
28 Aug 2019


Reason 3. And i still love the concept but jumped the sinking ship.
Thanks for the answers man. That’s what I’m trying to understand. Why NOW. If they hadn’t announced Reason 11 would you still be doing it or would you still be happy using 10?
I tell you why, because users demand the sequencer and ux changes for years and this update was the final straw. The company is heading in a complete opposite direction. It´s going mobile and want to attract other DAW users with VST plug in. I am not willing to wait any longer for sequencer changes so I switched to Studio One.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

dezma
Posts: 98
Joined: 02 Jun 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

gdm41 wrote:
28 Aug 2019
MrFigg wrote:
28 Aug 2019


Thanks for the answers man. That’s what I’m trying to understand. Why NOW. If they hadn’t announced Reason 11 would you still be doing it or would you still be happy using 10?
I tell you why, because users demand the sequencer and ux changes for years and this update was the final straw. The company is heading in a complete opposite direction. It´s going mobile and want to attract other DAW users with VST plug in. I am not willing to wait any longer for sequencer changes so I switched to Studio One.
My thoughts/feelings exactly. And also the DAW I'm going to trial first (Studio One).

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guitfnky
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Post 28 Aug 2019

the reason why now is because they’ve telegraphed that (at least for now) the focus of Reason is on being a VST, not a DAW.

in the past versions, they always felt like they were making the changes people were asking for the most (I may not have agreed with some of those features, but I can’t deny they were highly requested—even the ‘content drop’ of R10).

and as such, I’ve been a steady defender of Props for a very long time (to the point of having been called a fanboy on some occasions). this is the first release where they’re putting other DAWs before their own, and instead delivering stuff that their core users have not been asking for. this is the first time my confidence in Props has needed to be questioned.

electrofux
Posts: 638
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

Only because of the missing Clip Launcher.

But honestly i am a bit sceptical the VST Rack will serve my needs. EG if they leave out Midi Out then thats it for me already. If they make compromises with automation and remote controll aswell. It is the main feature of the Update it must be done very well.
Last edited by electrofux on 28 Aug 2019, edited 2 times in total.

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MattiasHG
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Post 28 Aug 2019

guitfnky wrote:
28 Aug 2019
the reason why now is because they’ve telegraphed that (at least for now) the focus of Reason is on being a VST, not a DAW.
This is really not true though. I tried my best to make that clear in my blog post and with the sequencer updates and devices in Reason 11 but it seems I probably failed. :)

We'll continue working really hard on Reason as a DAW for people who only use Reason, we have plenty of stuff we want to add. The workflow improvements in Reason 11 do focus on the sequencer and they were some of the top requested features, even here on ReasonTalk. The mixer devices are also highly requested, the half-rack effects complained about and requests for Europa's filters in a standalone module influenced the new effects. All these, I hope, should telegraph we care about the DAW. And we won't stop here.

electrofux
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Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

Matthias cant you give us a bit more specifics about how the plugin works? Like will there be Midi Out/Notes to Track, is Remote Present, how is automation handled with the myriad of parameters a Rack can have etc.
Last edited by electrofux on 28 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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MannequinRaces
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Post 28 Aug 2019

I don’t want to change DAWs at all but the slow pace of progress on workflow improvements while Reason catches up with seemingly basic stuff (curved automation, etc.) is excruciating. Sonically I freaking love Reason and all that it offers.
Last edited by MannequinRaces on 28 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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diminished
Posts: 1194
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Post 28 Aug 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
28 Aug 2019
guitfnky wrote:
28 Aug 2019
the reason why now is because they’ve telegraphed that (at least for now) the focus of Reason is on being a VST, not a DAW.
This is really not true though. I tried my best to make that clear in my blog post and with the sequencer updates and devices in Reason 11 but it seems I probably failed. :)

We'll continue working really hard on Reason as a DAW for people who only use Reason, we have plenty of stuff we want to add. The workflow improvements in Reason 11 do focus on the sequencer and they were some of the top requested features, even here on ReasonTalk. The mixer devices are also highly requested, the half-rack effects complained about and requests for Europa's filters in a standalone module influenced the new effects. All these, I hope, should telegraph we care about the DAW. And we won't stop here.
Mattias, thank you. I'll take your word for it.
Just two consecutive questions, you've probably read many opinions on R11.
Can you _understand_ why this is for the most part still not an attractive upgrade for Reason-only users and will this be discussed internally?

PhillipOrdonez
Posts: 516
Joined: 20 Oct 2017
Location: Colombia

Post 28 Aug 2019

antic604 wrote:
28 Aug 2019
I look at v11 as a way to get my EUR1.5k+ of REs into my other DAWs for a measly EUR129. That's a great deal :)

The problem however is, I might stop using Reason alltogether, because so far I mainly used it because of the Rack and the devices - native & REs. Now I'll have it available in Bitwig and Cubase directly :(

Actually, yesterday when I got the Beta I spent like 5 minutes trying out Reason's workflow stuff (curved automation, new drawing mode, muting of notes, etc.) and then almost 2h in Bitwig building instrument & FX racks... I'm afraid I'm not the only one. I mean this might be great news for company's cashflow and P&L report, but not necessarily for Reason as a DAW :(
Can't deny I'm salty you've gotten access to the beta and I haven't yet. 😑

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guitfnky
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Post 28 Aug 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
28 Aug 2019
guitfnky wrote:
28 Aug 2019
the reason why now is because they’ve telegraphed that (at least for now) the focus of Reason is on being a VST, not a DAW.
This is really not true though. I tried my best to make that clear in my blog post and with the sequencer updates and devices in Reason 11 but it seems I probably failed. :)

We'll continue working really hard on Reason as a DAW for people who only use Reason, we have plenty of stuff we want to add. The workflow improvements in Reason 11 do focus on the sequencer and they were some of the top requested features, even here on ReasonTalk. The mixer devices are also highly requested, the half-rack effects complained about and requests for Europa's filters in a standalone module influenced the new effects. All these, I hope, should telegraph we care about the DAW. And we won't stop here.
that’s fair, and I appreciate the response. I just hope you understand why people are seeing it in the light I do—the first thing you see on the R11 splash page is that it’s now available as a VST, and even in your blog post, it takes 5 paragraphs before you talk about Reason as a DAW. the optics of that are at best confusing, and at worst, cause for concern.

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antic604
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 28 Aug 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Can't deny I'm salty you've gotten access to the beta and I haven't yet. 😑
Sorry, but that's probably on you for sleeping when the announcement and beta sign-up went online ;) :P
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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antic604
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Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 28 Aug 2019

electrofux wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Matthias cant you give us a bit more specifics about how the plugin works? Like will there be Midi Out/Notes to Track, is Remote Present, how is automation handled with the myriad of parameters a Rack can have etc.
Hope I'm not breaking any NDA:
- Midi Out/Notes to Track - not available, so you can e.g. use QNG to drive a device INSIDE of the Rack VST, but can't drive a VST outside of it; at least for now
- I've no idea about Remote
- in Bitwig I saw about 4000 parameters exposed for automation and once you I started adding devices to Rack VST the slots were populated with actual parameter names & values; works great
- I was really surprised that Rack VST has 16 stereo outputs that you can route stuff within to, so for example you can send audio from Kong to separate tracks easily; Rack VST also has sidechaining input
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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