Reason 11 is dropping ReWire completely.

[enossified]

I'm actually more concerned about Rewire used without Reason. I use it today to connect Live to Logic. Eventually other DAW mfrs will choose to drop support and I'll have to reassess my whole setup...yuck.

[Goriila Texas]

Yeah I figured we would need multiple Racks in a host DAW. But another issue I see coming is losing the power of the Run button connected to the play button in Reason. Rewire is still better in that hitting play starts Redrum when I do drums in Reason which I can play different loops in S1. How will the Rack plugin deal with devices that link Run and the play button?

Then there’s which instrument get focused on in a DAWs piano roll? For instance,if you choose an nnxt,redrum or Thor which will be controlled in the host piano roll?

I might be misunderstanding you (or maybe I myself misunderstand the VST rack) but I think the point is that you will create multiple Racks as VSTs - almost like each rack is its own combinator. So you don’t have to worry about which instrument in *the* rack a piano roll track is pointing to - each piano roll track will point to its own, separate rack instantiation. At least, that’s how I’ve interpreted what I’ve seen so far.

Mark

[JdA57]

I'm in the same boat as you, and I agree totally. I also won't be updating (ever, probably)

same here.

using rewire very often. Don't understand why props remove it

Maybe, if the new Reason-VST has the complete Sequencer inside, then it will be ok, because it is (only!) like a little bit a usable workaround for me. But the VST-Rack miss the sequencer, I think missing MIDI-Multimode too ... ...

So, yes same here: Cannot understand why ReWire will be removed (and sorry, some persons here talking about Ableton Link is the same. For shure, it is'nt!)

So I'll thinking a long time about, if I'll go to Version 11 or not. Actually I don't think so (because some other reasons too).
Maybe V. 12 with ReWire back

The new version is really a big deal for users which prefering another sequencer (DAW) and don't need ReWire. For them props did really an amazing job. But sorry, not for users like me (Reason since V. 1). That's ok.

But I'm not as so unhappy with this Update, because nothing changes to my Version 10. And this version is really amazing too, more the ok. So maybe updating ends here for me now and I'll use Version 10 next years / for the future.

BUT PLEASE PROPS: FIX THE BUGS IN VERSION 10.x. IT WILL BE FAIR! WE / I'm WAITING NOW AS SO LONG FOR THE FIXES.

[Goriila Texas]

Agreed,in Rewire midi is bi-directional if I remember correctly. You rest assured the Rack Won’t have midi out watch.

The people who say Rewire is bad just didn’t understand it or chose a host DAW that didn’t handle Rewire well imo. My workflow with Reason and Studio 1 was flawless. I would often do drums in Reason which I could send any sound to a direct out to an input in S1. You can hit play/stop/rewind and chose a loop point which shows in Reason and Studio One while Rewired together. I can do drums in S1 and load up a dr Rex and let the loop adjust to tempo. Dr Rex tempo adjustment will be lost as a plug-in. Regrooved drums with MPC settings is lost with Reason as a plugin.

Rewire is the only reason I used and stayed with Reason this long. Without rewire I will no longer upgrade period. I’m still not sure how they will handle multiple outs as a plugin. Then there’s which instrument get focused on in a DAWs piano roll? For instance,if you choose an nnxt,redrum or Thor which will be controlled in the host piano roll?

Big mistake killing Rewire!!!!

The Video shows 16 pairs of Stereo Outs in the I/O device. Lets just hope they do it properly and dont leave out things like Midi Out.

[Goriila Texas]

What bug fixes are you referring too?

same here.

using rewire very often. Don't understand why props remove it

Maybe, if the new Reason-VST has the complete Sequencer inside, then it will be ok, because it is (only!) like a little bit a usable workaround for me. But the VST-Rack miss the sequencer, I think missing MIDI-Multimode too ... ...

So, yes same here: Cannot understand why ReWire will be removed (and sorry, some persons here talking about Ableton Link is the same. For shure, it is'nt!)

So I'll thinking a long time about, if I'll go to Version 11 or not. Actually I don't think so (because some other reasons too).
Maybe V. 12 with ReWire back

The new version is really a big deal for users which prefering another sequencer (DAW) and don't need ReWire. For them props did really an amazing job. But sorry, not for users like me (Reason since V. 1). That's ok.

But I'm not as so unhappy with this Update, because nothing changes to my Version 10. And this version is really amazing too, more the ok. So maybe updating ends here for me now and I'll use Version 10 next years / for the future.

BUT PLEASE PROPS: FIX THE BUGS IN VERSION 10.x. IT WILL BE FAIR! WE / I'm WAITING NOW AS SO LONG FOR THE FIXES.

[QVprod]

Agreed,in Rewire midi is bi-directional if I remember correctly. You rest assured the Rack Won’t have midi out watch.

The Video shows 16 pairs of Stereo Outs in the I/O device. Lets just hope they do it properly and dont leave out things like Midi Out.

It doesn’t have midi out, though I imagine they’ll probably add it at some point. But neither did Rewire in Reason. You had to use a workaround with the EMI and external midi. We’ll see once more info gets out, but I’m thinking most things will function the same as they do in Reason aside from anything sequencer dependent like Regroove. Run buttons included.

[seqoi]

Yet there are other Rewire entities that don't have this artificial restriction. And not 'since ever' but since R9.5 IIRC when Reason could host vst's.

You are (partly) mistaken. ReWire Slave is not allowed to host VST plugins. In any Rewire entity or version.

The "problem" (if you want to call it like that) is that if you run Reason rewired to Ableton then Reson is Slave.

But i really don't see a point in arguing now when it's a VST thing.

[ShelLuser]

Agreed,in Rewire midi is bi-directional if I remember correctly. You rest assured the Rack Won’t have midi out watch.

Unfortunately not; ReWire works with midi in and audio out only.

But there is a neat trick: You can (ab)use Thor to send out midi data over an audio channel. Then all you need is a custom effect in your ReWire host to extract the midi data from the noise. On the Reaper & Ableton forums someone shared a snipper of javascript code to do just that using the ReaJS VST plugin (= a plugin which basically contains a javascript engine, thus allowing you to program your own instruments & effects (best part: it's free!)).

I've also done some experimentation using a Max for Live patch but that was quite some time ago...

[miscend]

According to CDM rewire won't work in future version of MacOS because of new security features.

[JdA57]

According to CDM rewire won't work in future version of MacOS because of new security features.

a) Do you have some more informations about this?

b) maybe if so, so it's no problem, because I & I think some other users too, have not to change to a newer MacOS (stopped by 'Sierra', because some other Soft- and Hardware too, and because not interested in newer OSX) .
Some users, using a little bit older MACs, cannot do anyway. -

So, for me this last argement is'nt 'the one'.

[musicman691]

According to CDM rewire won't work in future version of MacOS because of new security features.

What is 'CDM'?

[Italophile]

What is 'CDM'?

CDM = Create Digital Music

[BigPictureSound]

It's not that Rewire doesn't work. It absolutely does work and is a good idea. It's just that it requires you to simultaneously run two DAWs, which costs precious CPU cycles and It has the hassle of maintaining two projects rather than one. If the host DAW is set to autosave a project then you can get the situation where the two projects on disk are out of step with each other. It just adds to the admin burden for the user and it's easy to mess it up.

However, I am very surprised that they are dropping it. I would have expected them to deprecate it but leave it in there for backward compatibility.

Exactly. These points you make are why I’ve never heavily incorporated it into my setup. I get that for some ReWire is part of their workflow, but workflow means an individual’s preferred way of working. It doesn’t mean the best or most efficient way, and ReWire is definitely inefficient. Besides the problem of maintaining two projects as you’ve said, you’ve also got the added headache of dealing with routing, etc.

But absolutely, deprecation makes more sense than dropping it. I can only imagine they are trying to lean-up development time to get updates out faster. I have no idea how well their current business model is doing, but it is easy to see they are making some bold changes and being proactive about something on the horizon.

[Boombastix]

It feels a bit hasty though. Considering the users who use Rewire for live use. If they want to upgrade then they are forced to rebuild every setup. If you just used it for song productions, I suppose it is easier, you can just keep v10 around if you need to open an old song. It would have made sense to do Rack VST in v11, keep Rewire, then drop rewire in v12. And announce it will be dropped in v12 so people have time to transition. Also, whatever bugs come up in the Rack VST will make people scream extra loud since they cannot use Rewire while the bugs are fixed. But maybe there are also behind the scene code updates that is too cumbersome to spend time on to move the Reason engine forward.

[miscend]

According to CDM rewire won't work in future version of MacOS because of new security features.

a) Do you have some more informations about this?

b) maybe if so, so it's no problem, because I & I think some other users too, have not to change to a newer MacOS (stopped by 'Sierra', because some other Soft- and Hardware too, and because not interested in newer OSX) .
Some users, using a little bit older MACs, cannot do anyway. -

So, for me this last argement is'nt 'the one'.

Unfortunately I have no additional info apart from what Peter wrote in his piece. But I know Apple have been tightening up security in Catalina.

https://cdm.link/2019/08/reason-11-new-plugin/

[boingy]

I can understand them not wanting to spend any more dev time on Rewire but for them to drop it so suddenly there must be some technical reason, either with some "under the hood" changes to Reason facilitate future developments or with something that is outside of their control like forthcoming Apple changes or similar. Otherwise they would have just left it in there.

Here is a wild speculative guess. Maybe they are revamping the internals to support VST3 and/or VST Midi and it clashes with the way Rewire works.

Interesting that they are keeping Ableton Link.

[Goriila Texas]

REWIRE590About this chapterThis chapter describes how to use Reason as a ReWire Device; that is with Reason delivering audio to another Re-Wire compatible application.Why use Reason with ReWire?While Reason is a complete music tool in its own right, you might want to use other elements in your music, such as special software synthesizers and effect plug-ins.Connecting Reason to another application allows you to integrate your Reason devices and songs with other type of music and recordings, etc. By recording Reason tracks onto audio tracks in another audio sequencer, you can also continue processing your Reason tracks with other software plug-ins.Introducing ReWire!To make this integration between two audio programs possible, Propellerhead Software has developed ReWire. This technology provides the following possibilities and features:In ReWire version 1• Real time streaming of separate audio channels, at full bandwidth, into another audio program.• Automatic, sample accurate, synchronization between the audio in the two programs.• The possibility to have the two programs share one audio card.• Linked transport controls that allows you to play, rewind etc., from either program.• Less total system requirements than when using the programs together in the conventional way.In ReWire 2A number of features were added in ReWire version 2. The following are the most important:• Up to 256 audio channels (previously 64).• Bi-directional MIDI communication of up to 4080 MIDI channels (255 devices with 16 channels each)• Automatic querying and linking features that (among other things) allow a host to display the Device’s instru-ments, controllers, drum sounds etc. by name.



It's true ReWire is bi-directional I tried it yesterday and got midi into S1but couldn't stop the doulble notes when switched to loopmidi. In Reason choose a combinator,select an instrument I choose radical pianos. Select chord player and midi out instrument, on the midi out instrument select loopmidi,select loopmidi in host DAW as midi control and boom midi comes in. I can't figure out why the notes keep playing even when you stop playing though.

Agreed,in Rewire midi is bi-directional if I remember correctly. You rest assured the Rack Won’t have midi out watch.

Unfortunately not; ReWire works with midi in and audio out only.

But there is a neat trick: You can (ab)use Thor to send out midi data over an audio channel. Then all you need is a custom effect in your ReWire host to extract the midi data from the noise. On the Reaper & Ableton forums someone shared a snipper of javascript code to do just that using the ReaJS VST plugin (= a plugin which basically contains a javascript engine, thus allowing you to program your own instruments & effects (best part: it's free!)).

I've also done some experimentation using a Max for Live patch but that was quite some time ago...

[Data_Shrine]

It feels a bit hasty though. Considering the users who use Rewire for live use. If they want to upgrade then they are forced to rebuild every setup. If you just used it for song productions, I suppose it is easier, you can just keep v10 around if you need to open an old song. It would have made sense to do Rack VST in v11, keep Rewire, then drop rewire in v12. And announce it will be dropped in v12 so people have time to transition. Also, whatever bugs come up in the Rack VST will make people scream extra loud since they cannot use Rewire while the bugs are fixed. But maybe there are also behind the scene code updates that is too cumbersome to spend time on to move the Reason engine forward.

I will have to rebuild everything if I ever want one of my band to play live again (we're been working on a 2nd album for a while now). It is definitely impossible for me to update beyond R10. I don't have a solution as of yet, and there are too many uncertainties for the Rack VST. It will probably be half-baked, at least for a (very long) while.

I'm not surprised it could be because of something Apple has done. We've seen this with Nvidia and Mojave. There is no Nvidia driver support for Mojave, and forward. No one is sure who's fault it really is. I'm saying, both, and the same for Rewire.

[boingy]

Reason 11 and subsequent versions will not support the Rewire protocol.

Good idea? Bad idea?

I've never been a huge fan but I've used it and I think that taking away a connectivity option is a bad idea, especially as it has been adopted by so many other DAWs.

Regardless of what you think we'll have the daft situation that one of the two original developers of the protocol no longer supports it. That's just odd, that is. We want more choice not less.

[Skimrok]

ive never used rewire so no problem my end

[Loque]

I never really liked it, but removing will break compatibility with old projects.

[reggie1979]

I feel nostalgic about it. I think dropping it is kinda weird.

Also weird is that Reason doesn't support VST3 but REQUIRES VST3 to run the rack.

?

[boingy]

Also weird is that Reason doesn't support VST3 but REQUIRES VST3 to run the rack.

?

Amen to that.
A marketing nightmare.
Random potential customer: "Wait, so you do Reason as a VST3 (but not a VST2) and that won't load any VSTs at all and then you do Reason as a standalone that will load VST2s but not VST3s, even though you yourselves don't produce any VST2s except Europa, which is not available as a VST3. <scratches head>

[Oquasec]

Because Reason vst was made after the vst 2 license expired, last year :]
In October. So making a vst 2 version would be stupid right now.

[boingy]

I hate thread merges. Over zealous moderation again. Little people with too much power..