Converting Unipolar CV to Bipolar

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
User avatar
Lempface
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 26 Aug 2019

Is there any technique or device that can convert a unipolar CV into a bipolar CV? For instance synchronous outputs 0 to +5v, which means it can only modulate up or down from the control value point where as pulsar outputs -5v to 5v and is able to modulate up and down over a control value point. If I'm using a sine shape in synchronous, I'd like it to behave in a bipolar manner.

EDIT: I figured it out, shoulda known Lectric Panda woulda had something for me! Janitor CV Shaper w/ offset and scale did the trick. I knew there was a reason Lectric is my favorite RE dev :D
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2

User avatar
Loque
Posts: 5975
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

I use this one for such tasks:
https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... -analyzer/

Just look at the back...
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
Lempface
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 27 Aug 2019

Thanks Loque, that looks pretty good too!
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2

User avatar
pongasoft
Posts: 182
Joined: 21 Apr 2016
Location: Las Vegas

Post 27 Aug 2019

As Loque said it is built-in. You can check the features section on my website https://pongasoft.com/rack-extensions/C ... l#features (scroll down to CV-OUT).

Yan

User avatar
ljekio
Posts: 680
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

Uni to Bi
2019-08-27_19-33-46.jpg
Bi to Uni
2019-08-27_19-31-10.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
selig
Moderator
Posts: 8002
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

ljekio wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Uni to Bi

2019-08-27_19-33-46.jpg

Bi to Uni

2019-08-27_19-31-10.jpg
Or this also works for Bi to Uni (Rotary is @ 124):
Selig Audio, LLC

User avatar
ljekio
Posts: 680
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

I have deja vu, Selig :)
It seems that we once answered together in a similar way.

User avatar
Lempface
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 27 Aug 2019

Interesting, I managed to find a solution outside of Reason first.

In preparation for Rack VST but no VST hosting, I wanted to be able to modulate parameters of VSTs w/ the modulators in Reason. I converted Synchronous CV to audio w/ Thor and then Rewired into Bitwig Studio w/ Bidule. Using BWS DC Offset effect into a gain utility and into an oscilloscope I was able to adjust the gain of the signal once offset to produce a similar effect. Then sent that signal to an audio rate modulator and it worked a charm!

I really do appreciate everyone's input, things w/ CV are not always easy to discern.
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

QUESTION:

Without modification, is there a device in REASON that emits a strictly UNIpolar wave?
NOT a CONVERSION. Not an ENVELOPE.

If not, Offsetting and Scaling is OK and may be Practical, but it's not the best Mathematical approach, if you get my meaning.

-

Sterioevo
Posts: 90
Joined: 02 Apr 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

O1B wrote:
27 Aug 2019
QUESTION:

Without modification, is there a device in REASON that emits a strictly UNIpolar wave?
NOT a CONVERSION. Not an ENVELOPE.

If not, Offsetting and Scaling is OK and may be Practical, but it's not the best Mathematical approach, if you get my meaning.

-
In this case do you mean to send Thors Mod Wheel (Unipolar)?

Or do you mean a LFO type mod? In this case https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... phase-lfo/ has a unipolar switch for the loo (on the back).

pongasoft wrote:
27 Aug 2019
As Loque said it is built-in. You can check the features section on my website https://pongasoft.com/rack-extensions/C ... l#features (scroll down to CV-OUT).

Yan
Excellent information - thanks!
The interpretation formulas got me thinking about thor's scaling (in what appears to be a trig function - eg. sine)... I guess this is along the lines in some ways as the ARCUS User Knobs RE (Alien Seeds). Made me wonder if you can use trig function formulas in Remote...

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

Thors Mod Wheel (Unipolar) is not an LFO. Sorry.

4 Phase LFO is a Good One. Nice.
But - NO.

Switching the 4P LFO to bipolar is more like offsetting it to 5..
Truly unipolar is ZERO to.... whatever.... not a new Center of CV=5/64/whatever.

Nice try, though!

....so.... no Native UNI-Polar LFO....? or, otherwise.... ? Interesting.
....so much for....." Converting Unipolar CV to Bipolar "


Sterioevo wrote:
28 Aug 2019
O1B wrote:
27 Aug 2019
QUESTION:

Without modification, is there a device in REASON that emits a strictly UNIpolar wave?
NOT a CONVERSION. Not an ENVELOPE.

If not, Offsetting and Scaling is OK and may be Practical, but it's not the best Mathematical approach, if you get my meaning.

-
In this case do you mean to send Thors Mod Wheel (Unipolar)?

Or do you mean a LFO type mod? In this case https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... phase-lfo/ has a unipolar switch for the loo (on the back).

User avatar
Lempface
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 28 Aug 2019

O1B wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Thors Mod Wheel (Unipolar) is not an LFO. Sorry.

4 Phase LFO is a Good One. Nice.
But - NO.

Switching the 4P LFO to bipolar is more like offsetting it to 5..
Truly unipolar is ZERO to.... whatever.... not a new Center of CV=5/64/whatever.

Nice try, though!

....so.... no Native UNI-Polar LFO....? or, otherwise.... ? Interesting.
....so much for....." Converting Unipolar CV to Bipolar "


Sterioevo wrote:
28 Aug 2019


In this case do you mean to send Thors Mod Wheel (Unipolar)?

Or do you mean a LFO type mod? In this case https://www.propellerheads.com/shop/rac ... phase-lfo/ has a unipolar switch for the loo (on the back).
Not sure if I'm understanding but Synchronous emits strictly unipolar, and is the reason behind the question of the OP.
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

Not sure if I'm understanding but Synchronous emits strictly unipolar, and is the reason behind the question of the OP.

ImageImage
Synchronous emits a only an INVERTED copy of the CURVE. There is no LFO that I am aware of.
If I'm wrong, I apologize, but - Please, indicate unipolar LFO pls, if you can.

but, if .... "Synchronous emits strictly unipolar [WRONG], and is the reason behind the question of the OP"... then - I'll bow out of this thread.

Lempface, there are a lot of awesome uses for a truly uni to bi-polar switch. FX-wise.
I use a Scaler Polarizer Offseter (SPO) so the effects are not new to me.
Image
- but, FINDING a TRULY UNI- to BIPOLAR CV TOOL would ALSO be quite useful........ for me.

Lempface wrote:
28 Aug 2019
O1B wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Thors Mod Wheel (Unipolar) is not an LFO. Sorry.

4 Phase LFO is a Good One. Nice.
But - NO.

Switching the 4P LFO to bipolar is more like offsetting it to 5..
Truly unipolar is ZERO to.... whatever.... not a new Center of CV=5/64/whatever.

Nice try, though!

....so.... no Native UNI-Polar LFO....? or, otherwise.... ? Interesting.
....so much for....." Converting Unipolar CV to Bipolar "



Not sure if I'm understanding but Synchronous emits strictly unipolar, and is the reason behind the question of the OP.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

See Mutable Instruments KINKS...

SIGN section ....( the Arches.... Top Section... Bottom Right ... or LEFT, if that's what's needed)

Image
This section consists of a precision signal inverter, and half- and full- wave rectifiers (which respectively clips to 0V, and inverts the negative half of the signal).

They can help in creating new LFO shapes, add overtones to audio signals or even transform CV melodies.
Last edited by O1B on 28 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Lempface
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 28 Aug 2019

Synchronous does not have an LFO if that is what you were looking for, but it does emit only Unipolar. Standard CV out is 0 to +5v and inverted CV out is 0 to -5v.
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

But, about the OP...
"Is there any technique or device that can convert a unipolar CV into a bipolar CV?"
I want to go Bi to Uni, Lempface. (I have my reasons)... but try the following to see the results:

1. LOAD A SYNCHRONOUS and a SKOPE M4.
First, SEE that without RUNNING the sequencer, there is no WAVE, BI/UNI/Inverted - or, otherwise.
NOW, RUN the SEQUENCER and then... STOP.

What do you see? You see that the SKOPE is stuck on CV=between 0 and 5.
It's really OFFSET at 2.5.., not BIPOLAR, and not RECTIFIED to UNIPOLAR.

2. For PROOF of it being OFFSET and not BIPOLAR nor RECTIFIED to UNIPOLAR:
Load a PULSAR and PASS the SIGNAL through SYNCHRONOUS and INTO LP's SKOPE M4.
You will see that the wave is NOT Bipolar at the 0 crossing, but is BIPOLAR around CV=2.5...

No bueno.

That's just the way it is, I'm afraid. UNIPOLAR seems to MEAN BIPOLAR around CV=2.5

Selig is here. Perhaps he can speak to this phenomena.
Lempface wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Synchronous does not have an LFO if that is what you were looking for, but it does emit only Unipolar. Standard CV out is 0 to +5v and inverted CV out is 0 to -5v.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

I'm guessing that you tried by now, Lempface.


This is what Reason Does, I believe.. but, it's really OFFSET..... less useful.
Image
This is what OP would give us [""Is there any technique or device that can convert a unipolar CV into a bipolar CV?"]
Image

Big up to the first ever Reason Scope, btw. I still cherish it, like a C64.
without it.... we'd be Lost.
Image

User avatar
ljekio
Posts: 680
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

O1B wrote:
27 Aug 2019

If not, Offsetting and Scaling is OK and may be Practical, but it's not the best Mathematical approach, if you get my meaning.

-
So why?

User avatar
Lempface
Posts: 149
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 28 Aug 2019

Are you wanting a rectified LFO? Synchronous is unipolar as far as I'm concerned because it does not cross below the 0 point, staying to one pole....
Reason 11 Suite | Bitwig Studio 3 | Native Instruments Komplete 12 Ultimate | Komplete Kontrol M32 | Maschine Mikro MK2

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

Sorry, Dude... see the image ... INVERTED is TOP RIGHT.

" it does not cross below the 0 point, staying to one pole...."... FALSE
The Top left is PULSAR straight
Bottom Left is CURVE. Top RIGHT is INVERTED.
InvertedvsUNIPolar.png
Lempface wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Are you wanting a rectified LFO? Synchronous is unipolar as far as I'm concerned because it does not cross below the 0 point, staying to one pole....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Last edited by O1B on 28 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

From Mutable Instruments...

It's easier to access the reasonings in Eurorack. I can explain my specific, personal uses, if you'd like.
This section consists of a precision signal inverter, and half- and full- wave rectifiers (which respectively clips to 0V, and inverts the negative half of the signal).

They can help in creating new LFO shapes, add overtones to audio signals or even transform CV melodies.
ljekio wrote:
28 Aug 2019
O1B wrote:
27 Aug 2019

If not, Offsetting and Scaling is OK and may be Practical, but it's not the best Mathematical approach, if you get my meaning.

-
So why?

User avatar
ljekio
Posts: 680
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

O1B wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Sorry, Dude... see the image ... INVERTED is TOP RIGHT.

" it does not cross below the 0 point, staying to one pole...."... FALSE
The Top left is PULSAR straight
Bottom Left is CURVE. Top RIGHT is INVERTED.

InvertedvsUNIPolar.png

2019-08-28_20-34-48.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Timmy Crowne
Posts: 189
Joined: 06 Apr 2017
Location: California, United States

Post 28 Aug 2019

Little LFO by Little IO offers unipolar LFO. I believe it actually generates a wave from true zero. So I can scale the wave’s amplitude and the “floor” is fixed at zero.

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

We were on about SYNCHRONOUS, Ijekio. Thanks, though.

I hooked up a Pulsar to Thor... CV IN and OUT... other than that, you might want to explain your image.
I don't own that RE, but I suppose I could download it. Is it doing something I should be aware of?

Again, OP was talking about SYNCHRONOUS in our DIALOGUE.

O1B
ljekio wrote:
28 Aug 2019
O1B wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Sorry, Dude... see the image ... INVERTED is TOP RIGHT.

" it does not cross below the 0 point, staying to one pole...."... FALSE
The Top left is PULSAR straight
Bottom Left is CURVE. Top RIGHT is INVERTED.

InvertedvsUNIPolar.png

2019-08-28_20-34-48.jpg

User avatar
O1B
Posts: 1652
Joined: 26 Jan 2015

Post 28 Aug 2019

FINALLY! Little LFO by Little IO does do TRUE UNIPOLAR cv...

1/2 way there..... there is no CV IN/THROUGH so we are dependent on it's CV-able WAVES.
Again... we can't use Little IO for the "CONVERTing... as per OP.

now.. can Thor/anything covert UNIPOLAR to BIPOLAR?
Then, the functionality (CONVERT UNI to BI/vice versa) is TRULY in REASON.

NOT... OFFSET, again, pls.. and NOT SCALING.

Nice on on Little IO, Timmy Crowne! We do bet BOTH with Little IO.
Timmy Crowne wrote:
28 Aug 2019
Little LFO by Little IO offers unipolar LFO. I believe it actually generates a wave from true zero. So I can scale the wave’s amplitude and the “floor” is fixed at zero.

  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], CommonCrawl [Bot] and 0 guests