Announcing Reason 11

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
ShawnG
Posts: 115
Joined: 31 Aug 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

Goriila Texas wrote:
26 Aug 2019
I guess I can add Rewire on the failure list too
you could have added rewire to the failure list 18 years ago. It was a zombie feature that way outlived its usefulness.

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fieldframe
Posts: 759
Joined: 19 Apr 2016

Post 27 Aug 2019

Does Reason 11 add any options for storing REs on external media?

I'm starting to lean a little more toward Suite, but there's no way I'm fitting all those romplers on my SSD.
The Iron Law of Reason forums: All topics eventually turn into feature request threads; the only difference is how many posts it takes.

Looking for UI design? DM me for a portfolio.

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Jagwah
Posts: 1687
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

6502 wrote:
26 Aug 2019
P.S. been very busy, will get back to making music soon I hope :-)
Thanks and don't be too long, I had a big break and wouldn't recommend it to anyone, very happy to be back into it now.


Looking forward to seeing some work from you again :)
Last edited by Jagwah on 27 Aug 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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Jagwah
Posts: 1687
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Post 27 Aug 2019

So if I was to use Sony Vegas with Reason as a plug-in, I would need to use Sony Vegas' sequencer to control all my Reason devices, that doesn't sound that cool but I will need to try it out.

Would it have been unnecessary or silly to have Reason in its entirety as a plug-in, as in Rack / Mixer / Sequencer?

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boingy
Posts: 791
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 27 Aug 2019

Jagwah wrote:
27 Aug 2019
t.

Would it have been unnecessary or silly to have Reason in its entirety as a plug-in, as in Rack / Mixer / Sequencer?
Yes. Yes it would. :puf_smile:

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Arrant
Posts: 309
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Post 27 Aug 2019

Last Alternative wrote:
27 Aug 2019

but MAN after so many years of shelling out cashola waiting for the glory days to return I'm fkn pissed.
Dude you totally nailed the description of a mid-life crisis 😉

seqoi
Posts: 378
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 27 Aug 2019

I for once i am happy with the announcement. I use Reason 10.4 and even with all drawbacks to me it's a perfect music machine. I am coming from Cubase, Ableton and FL Studio. Still use them but navigating toward Reaon only. Reason (for me) have workflow done properly. What i mostly value is stability even with VST in Reason.

I will upgrade to Suite just for content and workflow enhancements.

I have some practical questions and one funny.

1. Authorization for VST rack? Now when Reason is a VST i see myself migrating reWire projects into VST ones. Great. So how exactly authorization is made when running Reason in Ableton?

Example: i still use online auth. I don't register my computer and i don't have dongles. Pure simple online auth. Run Reason, log in and work. Working for me for years. So when i run VST rack and i try to load Antidote do i get that "Login" screen where i can authorize Reason VST or how is online authorization handled now when you are in VST? Does that mean that now my "main" daw need to have access to internet ?

2. Reason VST rack automation. Can i still write down automation inside Reason sequencer when VST rack is running? Do i still get "green indicator" of Reason automated parameters?

3. Can i automate (example) Subtractor via it's default CC messages (stated in MIDI Manual) - from Ableton? Example Can i write down ModWheel CC data in ableton and send it to Reason VST Rack containing Subtractor? Assuming Reason VST rack is in the same Ableton channel. If answer is yes then my question is ok then what if i have two subtractors in the same VST Rack in the same Ableton channel - how i split MIDI data via 16 midi channels inside Reason rack VST?

4. Lastly i am buying Suite for Content. I am not complaining just asking - seeing PX7 is only their instrument not included i have to wonder why? All other Propellerheads synths, players and toys are included how so PX7 is left out? Coincidentally i am seeking for PX7 sale and when i saw Suite option i told myself great that's it. But reading list i see every Propellerhead instrument is there apart from PX7. Is it a licensing thing or?

JerrelTheKing
Posts: 218
Joined: 31 Aug 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

I went from Reason 4 to Reason 7, from Reason 7 to Reason 9.5, from 9.5 to 10.3. The point is Reason was never ever worth making the yearly update and always better getting on points.. If you have the patience to skip updates the update you do get becomes very fun and much more rewarding.. If 11 isnt your stop just wait for the pint update or 12 and continue making music in the process..

seqoi
Posts: 378
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 27 Aug 2019

parma wrote:
26 Aug 2019
As a long-time user and someone that desperately wants to do everything in Reason, this update is a huge disappointment.
I can honestly relate to people which see this underwhelming but why are you torturing yourself why don't you use products which have features you want? I will never understand that move. Why are you buying a product which does not meet your sensibilities? If you bought it when it was meeting that but now it doesn't still question remains - why don't you move on to something which can accommodate you?

I am not trying to be smart ass or sarcastic i am puzzled why people do that? Why you buy something and then feel bad about it when there are other options?

You say you desperately want to do everything in Reason. But you fail to do and you blame compny which is developing Reason. Really seems like it's your fault in the first place. You bought something and desperately want it to be your thing but it isn't. Why do you feel company owe you something ? There is a 30 day demo - shouldn't that be enough for you to test it under your workflow? If you bought it and "expected" it to be something else in the future but it isn't turned that way - again your fault. Why so much disappointment?
parma wrote:
26 Aug 2019
I've never seen a company with its own competing product essentially push users to use a different platform.
No one is forcing anyone to anything. What are you talking about? Reason VST rack is an option for people with multiple DAW. How is that forcing you to anything. I see it very useful option as ReWire is cumbersome.

Reason 11 will still be pretty similar to Reason 10. A fully capable DAW where you can make music.
parma wrote:
26 Aug 2019
The dearth of improvements to its own sequencer is sad. Same for the untouched and long-in-the-tooth instruments and effects.
But they literally have sequencer improvements. As for effects i use Cubase for more then 13 years. It still have it's own effects which are ancient old for today standard (two decades) but they are still there unremoved and used by people. How do you imagine keeping compatibility with older projects if you stop offering old plugins?

Again no disrespect intended. I can see why some of you can be disappointed but you have options to move on quite literally.

If i am really forced to see problem in this upgrade then i see it in their loyal program. Heavy hitters and people with all of their plugins gain almost nothing (one new instruments and modulation FX. Dynamics and EQ are old products). Propellerheads at least could develop a decent loyalty program. So people with all of their Racks for example could have some discount on upgrade to suite.

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boingy
Posts: 791
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 27 Aug 2019

seqoi wrote:
27 Aug 2019
I for once i am happy with the announcement. I use Reason 10.4 and even with all drawbacks to me it's a perfect music machine. I am coming from Cubase, Ableton and FL Studio. Still use them but navigating toward Reaon only. Reason (for me) have workflow done properly. What i mostly value is stability even with VST in Reason.

I will upgrade to Suite just for content and workflow enhancements.

I have some practical questions and one funny.

1. Authorization for VST rack? Now when Reason is a VST i see myself migrating reWire projects into VST ones. Great. So how exactly authorization is made when running Reason in Ableton?

Example: i still use online auth. I don't register my computer and i don't have dongles. Pure simple online auth. Run Reason, log in and work. Working for me for years. So when i run VST rack and i try to load Antidote do i get that "Login" screen where i can authorize Reason VST or how is online authorization handled now when you are in VST? Does that mean that now my "main" daw need to have access to internet ?

2. Reason VST rack automation. Can i still write down automation inside Reason sequencer when VST rack is running? Do i still get "green indicator" of Reason automated parameters?

3. Can i automate (example) Subtractor via it's default CC messages (stated in MIDI Manual) - from Ableton? Example Can i write down ModWheel CC data in ableton and send it to Reason VST Rack containing Subtractor? Assuming Reason VST rack is in the same Ableton channel. If answer is yes then my question is ok then what if i have two subtractors in the same VST Rack in the same Ableton channel - how i split MIDI data via 16 midi channels inside Reason rack VST?

4. Lastly i am buying Suite for Content. I am not complaining just asking - seeing PX7 is only their instrument not included i have to wonder why? All other Propellerheads synths, players and toys are included how so PX7 is left out? Coincidentally i am seeking for PX7 sale and when i saw Suite option i told myself great that's it. But reading list i see every Propellerhead instrument is there apart from PX7. Is it a licensing thing or?
1. We haven't got all the details yet but I also wondered about authorization for the plugin. I guess it will be the same as Reason. Either authorise the PC or login online each time.

2. There is no sequencer in the rack plugin. It's just a rack so the automation lane would be in the host DAW.

3. I think all MIDI will go to everything in the rack so if you want to drive two subtractors with different stuff they need to be in two separate racks (on two separate DAW tracks). In other words, each rack instance is like one "super instrument".

4. Can't help you. Prop's shop policies and pricing have always been a mystery to me. Never pay full price for anything because there will always be a sale at some point!

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Last Alternative
Posts: 1149
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Location: the lost desert

Post 27 Aug 2019

Arrant wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Dude you totally nailed the description of a mid-life crisis 😉
Haha totally but it’s a different context/meaning here. My life is going good otherwise!
I hope I never have a mid-life crisis.
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
:reason: 10.4 | iMac (27" Retina 5K, late 2015): OS Mojave, i7 Skylake @ 4GHz, 1TB SSD, 32 GB RAM, Radeon M395X | lots of sick gear

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parma
Posts: 29
Joined: 19 Feb 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

seqoi wrote:
27 Aug 2019
stuff
How hard is it to understand that it is 1. Possible to like a thing while 2. Being disappointed in the direction that thing is heading.

As for why I don't move on - I have invested a fair amount in Reason and RE. There was a time when I was happy with that but when I see the cool things being done with MaxForLive in terms of experimental and forward-thinking sound design and sequencing I get bummed that those things aren't available to me. I thought REs would be the answer but save for a handful of them, they are largely "traditional" offerings. I figured there would be a lot more experimental stuff but that never really happened. And now RE is a wasteland that barely any developer touches.

So, the answer for me then should be to move to Ableton Live Suite right? And I probably will. But it's not cheap and this is just a hobby for me. With kids and all the daily expenses it's hard for me to justify plonking down $800 for something new. Plus whatever it costs to get the MaxForLive devices that call my name. And because Propellerheads/Reason Studios has a crap (non-existent) license transfer policy for REs I can't even sell the old to help pay for the new (which is the time honored hobbyist musician way).

I don't feel that Propellerheads owe me anything. I know they don't. But I (and others) have every right to be disappointed in this update.

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Loque
Posts: 7280
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

parma wrote:
27 Aug 2019
seqoi wrote:
27 Aug 2019
stuff
How hard is it to understand that it is 1. Possible to like a thing while 2. Being disappointed in the direction that thing is heading.

As for why I don't move on - I have invested a fair amount in Reason and RE. There was a time when I was happy with that but when I see the cool things being done with MaxForLive in terms of experimental and forward-thinking sound design and sequencing I get bummed that those things aren't available to me. I thought REs would be the answer but save for a handful of them, they are largely "traditional" offerings. I figured there would be a lot more experimental stuff but that never really happened. And now RE is a wasteland that barely any developer touches.

So, the answer for me then should be to move to Ableton Live Suite right? And I probably will. But it's not cheap and this is just a hobby for me. With kids and all the daily expenses it's hard for me to justify plonking down $800 for something new. Plus whatever it costs to get the MaxForLive devices that call my name. And because Propellerheads/Reason Studios has a crap (non-existent) license transfer policy for REs I can't even sell the old to help pay for the new (which is the time honored hobbyist musician way).

I don't feel that Propellerheads owe me anything. I know they don't. But I (and others) have every right to be disappointed in this update.
Your invest is safe is not wasteland. Buy Ableton Live and you can use all Reason devices in Ableton Live. Easy as that. Perfect world. :D :thumbs_up:
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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Loque
Posts: 7280
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

Anyone tried the VST Rack yet? I am curious to know, if i can inter-modulate between Rack VSTs by using CV->Audio and route it to a channel and than back from Audio->CV?
:reason: 11, Win10 64Bit.

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boingy
Posts: 791
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 27 Aug 2019

Loque wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Anyone tried the VST Rack yet? I am curious to know, if i can inter-modulate between Rack VSTs by using CV->Audio and route it to a channel and than back from Audio->CV?
Sign up for the public Beta and you can try it (but you can't discuss it except with other beta testers)

fretshot7
Posts: 432
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 27 Aug 2019

parma wrote:
27 Aug 2019
seqoi wrote:
27 Aug 2019
stuff
How hard is it to understand that it is 1. Possible to like a thing while 2. Being disappointed in the direction that thing is heading.

As for why I don't move on - I have invested a fair amount in Reason and RE. There was a time when I was happy with that but when I see the cool things being done with MaxForLive in terms of experimental and forward-thinking sound design and sequencing I get bummed that those things aren't available to me. I thought REs would be the answer but save for a handful of them, they are largely "traditional" offerings. I figured there would be a lot more experimental stuff but that never really happened. And now RE is a wasteland that barely any developer touches.

So, the answer for me then should be to move to Ableton Live Suite right? And I probably will. But it's not cheap and this is just a hobby for me. With kids and all the daily expenses it's hard for me to justify plonking down $800 for something new. Plus whatever it costs to get the MaxForLive devices that call my name. And because Propellerheads/Reason Studios has a crap (non-existent) license transfer policy for REs I can't even sell the old to help pay for the new (which is the time honored hobbyist musician way).

I don't feel that Propellerheads owe me anything. I know they don't. But I (and others) have every right to be disappointed in this update.
Spot on! And the dubious way they push there REs on their customers, knowing full well what they will be doing. Its really put me off them ethically as a company.

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Faastwalker
Posts: 1676
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

Looking at everything on offer in Reason 11. I'm tempted to skip this one. The best thing for me is the ability to crossfade audio clips! I'm a Reason user so no interest in the ability to run the rack as a plug-in. The new devices look to me like they were tailor made for Reason Compact. I wonder if they will be crossing over to the mobile platform some time in the not to distant future. The workflow upgrades are nice. But not upgrade price nice. Reason 12 anybody?

PeterP
Posts: 76
Joined: 26 Apr 2016
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

Post 27 Aug 2019

I think this is the best thing that's ever happened to Reason. A dream come true for me. I've wanted this ever since I got Reason 2.5 in addition to my Cubase VST 5.0 back in the day.

Allowing FL Studio to work as a VST inside other DAWs didn't kill FL Studio, it just made it stronger. Same thing with Reason. I think we have a bright future ahead.

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Jagwah
Posts: 1687
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

Last Alternative wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Arrant wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Dude you totally nailed the description of a mid-life crisis 😉
Haha totally but it’s a different context/meaning here. My life is going good otherwise!
I hope I never have a mid-life crisis.
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Jagwah
Posts: 1687
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

boingy wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Jagwah wrote:
27 Aug 2019
t.

Would it have been unnecessary or silly to have Reason in its entirety as a plug-in, as in Rack / Mixer / Sequencer?
Yes. Yes it would. :puf_smile:

Well Sony Vegas' sequencer probably won't even understand how to add notes let alone chords and the rest of it. I'd say it isn't really going to work for me or come anywhere near solving my video support quest.

I doubt any time soon the features we receive in upgrades will be so bountiful - that requesting video support won't be such a waste of everyone's time. At this pace implementing video support is light years away, just like it always has been.

This upgrade is definitely a pass for me. Oh well hey ho only a few more years to see if 'less than ten new features' is enough to entice me next time. Luckily I am happy and progressing with Reason in its current state. The few features available to me here are just like noise right now, like a redundant new chorus device. Hate to be negative but that's what it is to me.

I did want to mention how different upgrading was back in the day when it was $129 every few years. Those upgrades were cool. Then when REs came I myself along with literally all my forum buddies and who knows who else started spending much, much more than that. Quite a lot of them like myself went from spending $129 every few years, to busting out thousands of dollars. No problem there, but my expectation was Reason advancing in leaps and bounds with this new found income that smashed the size of the old one. The updates never really got any bigger, just the trickle down of a few things at a time, with lots of quotes going around like 'they are a small company' etc, which I imagine still do the rounds. Rant over.

OverneathTheSkyBridg
Posts: 299
Joined: 15 Jan 2016

Post 27 Aug 2019

I've skimmed through all 18 pages of this thread after seeing the announcement and I see this update as a "come back home" call to former users who abandoned Reason versions ago for better workflow through other software, as well as those who've been relying on Rewire all these years. I share the same concerns of other Reason only users that this may be an exit step to selling the company, allowing users to take their products with them. The Native Instruments comparison was pretty apt...., it would be cool if Reason Studios came up with a Reason-centric device that was as awesome as the Maschine series.

Overall I'm going to wait a couple point releases to see what becomes of Reason's development before I drop any more money into this company. It's likely I'll buy it eventually, as will many of you that are complaining now. They'll offer some sort of incentive to lure us in.

seqoi
Posts: 378
Joined: 12 Aug 2017

Post 27 Aug 2019

parma wrote:
27 Aug 2019
How hard is it to understand that it is 1. Possible to like a thing while 2. Being disappointed in the direction that thing is heading.


I don't feel that Propellerheads owe me anything. I know they don't. But I (and others) have every right to be disappointed in this update.
Absolutely - you have every right to express your opinion and disappointment. Keep remembering that you bought Reason for what it was not for what it could be right?

It's just that i am finding it shocking and can't grasp that:
a: you like thing which disappoint you but keep posting about your disappointment
b: you are investing in something which is disappointing to you

If I were you (i know i ain't and your life is different) I would just move on or keep doing with what i have.

I know, trust me i know this is sounding cliche but how many times we whine or cry about something which seems like a problem to us only to realize how life is good and how good tools we have/had - which sadly happens only when our life is struck with big changes like a family or health problems and so on.

My point is - sometimes we need to step back, review our point of view and then - keep doing music perhaps.

I truly hope you and other people will find what they are looking for or Propellerhead in the future have some hidden aces under their sleeves which will please you.

Regards

electrofux
Posts: 682
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 27 Aug 2019

I really wonder how they implemented automation and remote control. I dont think it can be done with CCs as two of the same devices have the same CCs apart from the fact that the Midi implementation is totally inferior to the remote implemention. There can be Racks with huge amounts of Parameters and i am not sure if other DAWS can handle that amount. EG in Ableton to remote control a VST i just read you get 128 Parameters which is certainly not enough for a couple of devices.

The VST3 Spec (https://www.steinberg.net/en/company/te ... /vst3.html) offers alot to solve problems. I just hope they did it right and they means Props and the DAW manufacturers. But i sense headaches.

Goriila Texas
Posts: 573
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Houston TX

Post 27 Aug 2019

I liked Rewire why get rid of a feature that’s been in Reason since the beginning? It’s a scam they will bring it back and promote it with an update “Reason 12 now with Rewire legacy features!!) and charge $129 for it.
ShawnG wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Goriila Texas wrote:
26 Aug 2019
I guess I can add Rewire on the failure list too
you could have added rewire to the failure list 18 years ago. It was a zombie feature that way outlived its usefulness.

Goriila Texas
Posts: 573
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Location: Houston TX

Post 27 Aug 2019

Facts!!!

Last Alternative wrote:
27 Aug 2019
Goriila Texas wrote:
26 Aug 2019
Record failure, Balance failure, Allihoopla failure, REX loop format failure and Re, all half-ass done failures...
Too true. I'll add to your list:

*Propellerhead forums
*Line6
*Softube
*Crappre (April Fool's RE that cost money and ended up being total useless sh*t & PH actually allowed it) ironic huh?
*all the Mac bugs they let go for sooo long
*refusal to enhance the most basic things
*even their own CEO walked away
*half-ass tech support
*RARE tutorials anymore

No doubt there's more..

My point of view is for many moons I've been witnessing a once grateful company lose their vision and turn into money hungry thugs who come out of the woodwork acting nice as a car salesman when they have something new.

Remember all the excitement with R5 becoming a DAW? Pay what you want for R6? How so much used to be included in upgrades? How interactive PH used to be? That Joe Rogan dude with the 50 Reason Tips videos? And the recent videos with that Ryan guy? The happy days are over, it appears.

WHAT THE F HAPPEN?!?!?!?!?

This is like my 5th post today but MAN after so many years of shelling out cashola waiting for the glory days to return I'm fkn pissed.

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