Announcing Reason 11

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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EnochLight
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Post 07 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
07 Sep 2019
does anyone really think Ernst would have sold his life’s work to a company if he thought they would just cash in and let it fail? (not sure how that would work, exactly, but I’ll set that aside.)

I don’t know anyone who would leave their legacy in hands like that.

seriously, the logical leaps being taken by some of these doomsayers...it’s entertaining, at least, I guess. :lol:
You're not wrong. What's more disturbing is the ad hominems some seem to fall back to. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
miscend wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Ernst said he handpicked a successor himself from outside the company. He even said he would have gone earlier but they were waiting for the right candidate.
Don't go sharing facts; the doomsayers will just say they're lying. :o :shock: :? :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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miscend
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Post 07 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Reason 11 may not have the biggest things from my wishlist, but for every feature included, you can easily find tons of requests for those features made by other users. And I'll be pretty happy to make use of what is there now.

I presented this math in another thread... But Reason 10 will have spanned 23 months from its release to the release of Reason 11. At $129 to upgrade, that is $5.61/month. That includes all the features we got when Reason 10 was released and all of the point updates along the way. People seem way too emotionally invested in something that (A) Does in fact have things users requested, just not what they personally wanted (B) is just the initial release and (C) will equate to about a few dollars a month over its lifetime. Seriously.
Indeed they do listen to users, most requests do eventually get implemented. The Combinator and VST support were all user requests. But these improvements come at a glacial pace. They had working VST code, they sat on it for years until version 9.5. Part of what slowed them down in previous years was working on the rack extension SDK & ecosystem, then the forays into building smartphone apps and social networks.

CrunkNationEnt
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Post 07 Sep 2019

Greetings

Not sure if this has been asked before...but why is the Drum Sequencer included with the "Suites" REs?
Is it not already included with R10? Was it a gift?
Wonder why the PX7 is not included in the Suite? :question:

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tc13
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Post 07 Sep 2019

miscend wrote:
07 Sep 2019
they do listen to users, most requests do eventually get implemented. The Combinator and VST support were all user requests. But these improvements come at a glacial pace. They had working VST code, they sat on it for years until version 9.5. Part of what slowed them down in previous years was working on the rack extension SDK & ecosystem, then the forays into building smartphone apps and social networks.
This is a lie! When the Combinator was introduced in Reason the user forum was more or less in uproar and ”all” agreed that is was a waste of resources and you could do everything whitout the combinator....



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guitfnky
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Post 07 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Image
that’s...that’s not what he said... 😔

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
07 Sep 2019
joeyluck wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Image
that’s...that’s not what he said... 😔
It's a joke. Used to be that people would always say, "You can do that with a Combinator." Or "You can do that with Thor." Regardless of what the other device or feature was. So often that I forget what people said before we had those.

And the main point being, it doesn't matter what features you add, there will always be people complaining that they didn't need it.

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MrFigg
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Post 07 Sep 2019

CrunkNationEnt wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Greetings

Not sure if this has been asked before...but why is the Drum Sequencer included with the "Suites" REs?
Is it not already included with R10? Was it a gift?
Wonder why the PX7 is not included in the Suite? :question:
I’m guessing Drum Sequencer is included because you get it “free” with Umpf!
PX7 is probably not included because they need to keep something to put in Suite 2. Mäh!!!

Proboscis
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Post 08 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
07 Sep 2019
does anyone really think Ernst would have sold his life’s work to a company if he thought they would just cash in and let it fail? (not sure how that would work, exactly, but I’ll set that aside.)

I don’t know anyone who would leave their legacy in hands like that.
Wasn't the business was sold to a private equity firm entirely unconnected to the music-making industry ? Ultimately the founder will have no say as to who buys the business, and the CEO gets installed for the purpose of making it more profitable. The old CEO usually stay on for two reasons, first as a token gesture to reassure other shareholder, and to also remain stable to existing customers. But also to do a 'handover' of the role. Whoever owns Propellerhead now are only the middle men in a transaction to make them money. In turn, the founder has already made his money. He will be long gone when it gets sold off. It has nothing to do with his 'legacy', it's just a business transaction. Regardless, it's not a sign that the business is in trouble - the guys who fronted the capital would have gone through the books, projected that future success is likely, and the wheels of commerce roll on.

The only thing we might be concerned about is if they sell it to Apple, and it becomes Mac only :lol: :lol: :lol:

CrunkNationEnt
Posts: 118
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Post 08 Sep 2019

MrFigg wrote:
07 Sep 2019
CrunkNationEnt wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Greetings

Not sure if this has been asked before...but why is the Drum Sequencer included with the "Suites" REs?
Is it not already included with R10? Was it a gift?
Wonder why the PX7 is not included in the Suite? :question:
I’m guessing Drum Sequencer is included because you get it “free” with Umpf!
PX7 is probably not included because they need to keep something to put in Suite 2. Mäh!!!
Ah makes sense, thanks

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Last Alternative
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Post 08 Sep 2019

I love Reason 11. I made amazing things. I am very proud of my work. Reason 11 increased and improved my work. I love Reason 11 now. I will: OBEY THE MACHINE
Haha jk
https://lastalternative.bandcamp.com
:reason: 10.4 | iMac (27" Retina 5K, late 2015): OS Mojave, i7 Skylake @ 4GHz, 1TB SSD, 32 GB RAM, Radeon M395X | lots of sick gear

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Creativemind
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Post 08 Sep 2019

tc13 wrote:
07 Sep 2019
miscend wrote:
07 Sep 2019
they do listen to users, most requests do eventually get implemented. The Combinator and VST support were all user requests. But these improvements come at a glacial pace. They had working VST code, they sat on it for years until version 9.5. Part of what slowed them down in previous years was working on the rack extension SDK & ecosystem, then the forays into building smartphone apps and social networks.
This is a lie! When the Combinator was introduced in Reason the user forum was more or less in uproar and ”all” agreed that is was a waste of resources and you could do everything whitout the combinator....
The VST code yes. I did hear that on here I think. If memory serves me correct, Magnus Lidstrom (of Sonic Charge) who coded Malstrom coded it for them about 12 years ago. They just refused to add it till 2018. Their excuse was it would go against Reasons paradigm (which I understand) and might make it unstable as well so they obviously came up with a solution and added the container with routing to fit in with Reasons cabling architecture.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Creativemind
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Post 08 Sep 2019

tc13 wrote:
07 Sep 2019
miscend wrote:
07 Sep 2019
they do listen to users, most requests do eventually get implemented. The Combinator and VST support were all user requests. But these improvements come at a glacial pace. They had working VST code, they sat on it for years until version 9.5. Part of what slowed them down in previous years was working on the rack extension SDK & ecosystem, then the forays into building smartphone apps and social networks.
This is a lie! When the Combinator was introduced in Reason the user forum was more or less in uproar and ”all” agreed that is was a waste of resources and you could do everything whitout the combinator....
Really, how could you play 3 synths at once, midi thru? lol!
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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tc13
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Post 08 Sep 2019

Proboscis wrote:
08 Sep 2019
guitfnky wrote:
07 Sep 2019
does anyone really think Ernst would have sold his life’s work to a company if he thought they would just cash in and let it fail? (not sure how that would work, exactly, but I’ll set that aside.)

I don’t know anyone who would leave their legacy in hands like that.
Wasn't the business was sold to a private equity firm entirely unconnected to the music-making industry ? Ultimately the founder will have no say as to who buys the business, and the CEO gets installed for the purpose of making it more profitable. The old CEO usually stay on for two reasons, first as a token gesture to reassure other shareholder, and to also remain stable to existing customers. But also to do a 'handover' of the role. Whoever owns Propellerhead now are only the middle men in a transaction to make them money. In turn, the founder has already made his money. He will be long gone when it gets sold off. It has nothing to do with his 'legacy', it's just a business transaction. Regardless, it's not a sign that the business is in trouble - the guys who fronted the capital would have gone through the books, projected that future success is likely, and the wheels of commerce roll on.

The only thing we might be concerned about is if they sell it to Apple, and it becomes Mac only :lol: :lol: :lol:
Ernst, Marcus Zetterqvist and Pelle Jubel still own more then 30% of the company ( Ernst 15.9% PeJu holding 9.6% and MZ holding 6,3%) verdane owns 68.2%

Ernst is also a chairman of the board so I really wouldn’t call that gone...

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Kalm
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Post 08 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum, but i want to explain something many of you don't seem to understand in very very clear and simple terms. people are talking about V11 as if it was some good faith effort on Props part to deliver a legitimate update that moved that product forward and addressed some of the things that have been unanimously demanded for oh, i don't know, a decade or so? as if they gave it the ole college try and came up short despite their best and most sincere efforts.

in fact nothing could be further from the truth, they made a deliberate, considered decision to ignore virtually one hundred percent of the user feedback they were getting in favor of a multi-pronged stab at a short term revenue bump that signals the beginning of a long term wind-down, cash out strategy to leverage their existing ip into maximum roi for ownership who have already initiated an exit strategy.

there will be essentially zero significant new ip coming out of Props from this point on. now it's all about selling us the same aging crap over and over again with different skins or sample sets and whatever other used car lot tactics they can brainstorm over the next few months - after all if something doesn't generate the revenue you were hoping for just pretend you never said any of the things you said when it launched and leave the page up on your website like rewards. what little spending they do will be on promotional materials and marketing to try and divert attention from what they're actually doing with the company and products for as long as possible.

from this point on there will be little to no reinvestment of any future revenue into Reason - they will essentially pull every last red penny they can out of the company in an attempt to recoup a failed investment. i know it hurts to hear and will make some of you emotional, but the current ownership of Reason Studios literally could not care less about the product itself, the interests or needs of its customers, or probably even its employees - that's simply the nature of the type of business Verdane run, and if you think they are going to turn out to be some kind of exception to the rule that's just wishful thinking.

from here on out it will be one hundred percent about looting the company and squeezing every last sleazy penny they can out of their rapidly shrinking user base before the clueless suckers realize what's happenning. there will be increasingly absurd attempts to maintain the fiction that Reason Studios is a healthy company with long term plans for it's flagship for the sole purpose of continuing to sell a zombie product to the heavily invested or sentimental users who can't accept the reality they're facing right up to the minute the bankruptcy is announced and the authorization and sync servers are taken offline.

this may all be news to some of you, but it damn sure isn't news to the leadership and ownership at Reason Studios. you don't release a major product version in 2019 that doesn't work on hi-res displays, that's not a thing. what is a thing is realizing that a product has no long term future and choosing not to throw away any more resources on any type of development that would be expensive and time consuming due to the challenges of reworking an aging code base. the performance improvements were an exception because it got to the point where that was an existential threat to the longer term (probably 2-5 yrs) cash out plan.

just look at Props behavior over the past 18 months - the writing has been on the wall for a while now, but i think a lot of us, including myself, were thinking how weird and idiosyncratic a company Props have been and just hoping against hope that their actions didn't really mean what they seemed to be signalling. well the gloves are off now and the contempt for their customers is laid bare for anyone capable of critical thought. the pretense from here on out will be strictly for children and marks.

regardless of what Mattias tells you Props just gave all of you the ultimate middle finger and said thanks for floating us this long, have fun with your crossfades suckers. wake up and smell the reality of this situation folks, all the pathetic attempts to make up excuses they were too lazy or indifferent to make for themselves aren't going to change a damn thing. half of you sound like battered spouses explaining why their abuser really loves them and they just need to give them one more chance.
TO miscend,

people weren't severely upset from 8 upwards cause they were tackling major issues with each release. People were unhappy with the lack of feedback implemented in the DAWs as competition rose, seeing an example of S1 completely start from the ground up and being where it is. Reason 11 was literally the biggest chance they could've made Reason a competition in the field again but instead they used all their resources to release a VST implementation instead. We went from getting MIDI, to audio, to an SSL style mixer, a dedicated pitch editor to player devices, then Grain/Europa and VST integration. This all came with minor updates with core functions but still widely asked for implementations.

This release SHOULD've been the core release.

Now regardless of what we hear, we cant really trust or its very hard to trust Reason Studios (all of a sudden name change) since we don't know if they will ever tackle aged issues in a timely manner. You get a playstation with no games every year for Christmas. Parents say you got to buy your own. this year you get Hot Wheels . . . . At the very least we got a console.

So two shoes defines this really well. It's either jump ship, or stick by them till the end due to brand loyalty. Maybe they do swing back around but its seriously a gamble.
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gullum
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Post 08 Sep 2019

It is easier said than done. Many of us have been in a relationship with reason between 10 to 19 years now and have kids together (songs) and in bad times and good times Reason has been there for us. we know each other inside out (Workflow) we know what makes her happy and what makes her struggle. These new younger more attractive on the outside DAWs might look good but when you get to know them you start missing you old ex-wife and mother of your favorite kids. Reason is like no other wife she let you do whatever makes you happy. You want to control a redrum with an LFO is ok just do it :D. She is not demanding and is a little slower as she has aged so not so open to changes as she used to be, she can except 4-6 changes in every update now

madmacman
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Post 08 Sep 2019

gullum wrote:
08 Sep 2019
It is easier said than done. Many of us have been in a relationship with reason between 10 to 19 years now and have kids together (songs) and in bad times and good times Reason has been there for us. we know each other inside out (Workflow) we know what makes her happy and what makes her struggle.
Yes, might be. But more often it's a progress in life, isn't it? I recently had a beer (or two) with some friends who make music with DAW's, too. And each of us started our "DAW history". I'm 50 years now, started making music with a computer when I was 18 and since then I have changed tools (sequencer, later "DAW") and host systems several times:

1. C-Lab Supertrack (Commodore C64)
2. Bars & Pipes (Commodore Amiga)
3. Roger Powell’s Texture (Commodore Amiga)
4. Passport Master Tracks Lite (Commodore Amiga)
5. Passport Master Tracks Pro (PC)
6. Steinberg Cubasis VST (PC)
7. RawMaterialSoftware Tracktion 1-2 (PC)
8. Steinberg Cubase SX 1-3 (Mac)
9. Apple Logic 8-9 (Mac)
10. Propellerhead Reason 6-10 (Mac)
11. PreSonus Studio One 4 (Mac)

So, in short: No, I'm not very "committed" to any product. If I feel it's time for something new, I simply buy it, and if necessary the new computer as well.

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guitfnky
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Post 08 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
07 Sep 2019
guitfnky wrote:
07 Sep 2019


that’s...that’s not what he said... 😔
It's a joke. Used to be that people would always say, "You can do that with a Combinator." Or "You can do that with Thor." Regardless of what the other device or feature was. So often that I forget what people said before we had those.

And the main point being, it doesn't matter what features you add, there will always be people complaining that they didn't need it.
yes, I know it’s a joke. it might have actually been funny if it hadn’t misrepresented the post immediately above, which is presumably what it was in response to.

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QVprod
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Post 08 Sep 2019

Kalm wrote:
08 Sep 2019
people weren't severely upset from 8 upwards cause they were tackling major issues with each release. People were unhappy with the lack of feedback implemented in the DAWs as competition rose, seeing an example of S1 completely start from the ground up and being where it is.
You may not have been around during the PUF days before ReasonTalk. Trust me people were equally as upset about 8 then as they seem about 11 here.

Again though, I think there’s too much personal connection people have with Reason. I can understand wanting to see where software goes. I held off on buying VSTs for a bit when RE was announced. And then I decided to buy things I needed after I saw the pace it was developing at; because why limit myself? Waiting through multiple versions hoping what you want gets added is clearly a frustrating experience, but seems that’s a common thread here.

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joeyluck
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Post 08 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
08 Sep 2019
joeyluck wrote:
07 Sep 2019


It's a joke. Used to be that people would always say, "You can do that with a Combinator." Or "You can do that with Thor." Regardless of what the other device or feature was. So often that I forget what people said before we had those.

And the main point being, it doesn't matter what features you add, there will always be people complaining that they didn't need it.
yes, I know it’s a joke. it might have actually been funny if it hadn’t misrepresented the post immediately above, which is presumably what it was in response to.
It was inspired by that. I thought of those users who might've complained about getting the Combinator and those who claim everything can be done with a Combinator and married them together. Just trying to have some fun.

At least I'm joking. If you want to hold people accountable for comments that misrepresent while being serious, then maybe cause a bigger fuss about the majority of this thread—people taking a product announcement, a clear company statement, and twisting those words to create unfounded speculation, conspiracy, and trying to create new meaning.

Proboscis
Posts: 92
Joined: 28 Aug 2019

Post 08 Sep 2019

tc13 wrote:
08 Sep 2019
Ernst, Marcus Zetterqvist and Pelle Jubel still own more then 30% of the company ( Ernst 15.9% PeJu holding 9.6% and MZ holding 6,3%) verdane owns 68.2%

Ernst is also a chairman of the board so I really wouldn’t call that gone...
Well sure, I have some shares in a few publicly listed companies, it doesn't mean I call the shots. I get as many votes in corporate elections as my shares allow (in my cases a fraction of a percent of those companies :lol: ). If, as you say, the private equity investor holds 68% then they have controlling interest in the company's future interests, and the CEO has been installed to make that realization. And as far as the position of Chairman is concerned, it is not an operational role, and does not necessarily carry any executive powers whatsoever (it's a 'token' position' in many cases like this)

Why does anyone care so much about about the company structure anyway ? The business is being traded to make a healthy profit, and what that means for us is that development will increase, which is a good thing. To those that say this is 'the beginning of the end' is really off the mark. What we will see is more - more innovations, more product releases, more everything. While that may not be on everyone's wishlists, it surely bodes well for the continued development of the Reason platform. It's why we have seen repackaged assets sold as new products (Reason Bass, Reason Drums, Reason Piano etc which are all ReFills from old), because it's an easy win. It will also mean that all the near-completed developments they have been sitting on for a long time will be released to the market.

The decisions made in Stockholm over the coming 12 months make not one bit of difference as far as my creative output is concerned. But to speculate, I imagine that after the new revenue stream from 'other DAW' customers levels out, we will see a free VST wrapper, or maybe even a direct RE to VST porting, allowing anyone to buy Rack Extensions, which will create incentives for third party developers to sell to a whole new market.

It may not mean that we, as existing users, get the benefits of their growth strategy, but it does mean that Reason will be around for a long time to come. Whomever the owners will be in the coming year or two does not matter. My money's on Yamaha, the $300 billion Japanese megacompany, whom already have interests in music-related brands. Or for all we know, with the growth of billionaire businessmen in China, we might be seeing a sell off of Reason to a 'new rich' guy in Shanghai who wants to have a cool brand in his portfolio. It's not often that a DAW becomes available for sale.

On a side note, and a fun fact for the day -many people don't realize that Yamaha started as a music company, not a motorcycle brand. This is why their logo is made up of three tuning forks.

Proboscis
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Post 08 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019
people taking a product announcement, a clear company statement, and twisting those words to create unfounded speculation, conspiracy, and trying to create new meaning.
Let's start the conspiracy theory that Trump is buying Propellerhead as a business.

And moving the operations to Greenland :lol:

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boingy
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Post 08 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019
and twisting those words to create unfounded speculation, conspiracy, and trying to create new meaning.
Joey, you can never beat conspiracy theorists. They just claim that anyone with conflicting views are part of the conspiracy. :D

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EnochLight
Posts: 5649
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 08 Sep 2019

boingy wrote:
08 Sep 2019
joeyluck wrote:
08 Sep 2019
and twisting those words to create unfounded speculation, conspiracy, and trying to create new meaning.
Joey, you can never beat conspiracy theorists. They just claim that anyone with conflicting views are part of the conspiracy. :D
Or they’re called fanboys. :lol:
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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