Announcing Reason 11

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
Reminiscence
Posts: 102
Joined: 31 May 2016

Post 06 Sep 2019

Can't wait for 11. Hopefully Acid Music Studio 11 supports VST3, cause it aint no supporting rewire, lol.

two shoes
Posts: 250
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 07 Sep 2019

whatever, something i was rooting and hoping for clearly ain't happenin. i'm sure i'm looking for someone to blame like most angry people, and new leadership that presumably has the backing of the pe ownership and no apparent qualifications or relationship to the company or even the industry is a more likely scapegoat than weird old Ernst who's been put out to pasture.

seriously though, who tf puts out a new version of their flagship product in 2019 that can't display fullscreen, makes extensive use visual assets older than most of it's users, and looks like an 8-bit video game on anything denser than 1080p? it was a professional embarassment three years ago, now you're just humiliating yourselves. please tell us more about how sweeper is something unique and special. was getting random chunks of the aging ssl mixer code into the rack (now in VST!) one of the top feature requests in that recent poll i can't remember? the GUIs look like placeholders some hungover employee cut and pasted together ten minutes before a deadline.

i think i'll bow out of this discussion and go shop for a new daw right after i make some extra redundant backups of my REs and refills so I can hopefully keep my instruments long after reason studios is just a wikipedia article.

Barriott
Posts: 5
Joined: 19 Feb 2016

Post 07 Sep 2019

Hi,
First off I'd just like to say thanks propellerheads for all your hard work so far.

I've been upgrading since reason 5. Reason 11, alas will be the first time I don't.

Whilst I'd like the crossfade, drawing multiple notes and automation curves and effects I just don't feel it represents value for money.
I own like 60% of the rack extensions included in suite and as a result now feel a bit ripped off for buying them individually and as a result will be buying reason rack extensions with interpretation in the future. I've recently just bought arturia 3 delays and I couldn't be more happy with them!

Reason 11 seems like a new customer grab, which I appreciate is important but man... Weve always been here and i've happily given you alot of my £££. Show us some love.... A modern time stretching sampler and a trig condition sequencer / player

Kindest of concerns

John

EdGrip
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Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 07 Sep 2019

Very much enjoyed having a good laugh at two shoes' posts.

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thx
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Joined: 18 Sep 2016
Location: UK

Post 07 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
seriously though, who tf puts out a new version of their flagship product that... makes extensive use visual assets older than most of it's users
True, some of the visual assets are over 6 years old.

madmacman
Posts: 476
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2019

Even though my focus is no longer on Reason, I would *love* to see some live shows with Mattias & Ryan! We could do a poll in advance: Which host will they use for presenting RVST? Ableton Live? Studio One? Cubase? :lol:

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 07 Sep 2019

Last Alternative wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Propeller Studio is giving us lunch meat and charging for steak.
I kinda agree if you mean bang for buck.

It's also annoying with the new features, not just being so few but 1 of them you could already do, send notes up / down an octave so that midi editing feature should have been scrapped for 1 you can't do...midi chase, get rid of those irritating get in the way arrows.
Last edited by Creativemind on 07 Sep 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 07 Sep 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
04 Sep 2019
i think reason 11 users should get a brucie bonus discount voucher wink nudge nudge
For those non UK residents...Bruce Forsyth who sleep is referring to here is a legend in the UK. He hosted game shows such as Generation Game and Play Your Cards Right and the latter one was where (I think) his Brucie Bonus catchphrase came from lol!

My Brucie Bonus would have to be Cloned / Mimic'd Clips lol! "Nice to see you, to see you nice!" lol! in fact I shoulda applied that to a "Shortcut To Put End Marker At Last Decayed Sound In Project" as it would be nice to see it rather that 10 bars after my last clip.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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miscend
Posts: 1312
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 07 Sep 2019

Kalm wrote:
06 Sep 2019
miscend wrote:
06 Sep 2019


Wow you're over thinking and over complicating things. Reason is simply a tool to make music. Most people aren't too invested on what's going on behind the scenes, they just want something that allows them to make their music. If Reason ceases to be creatively useful or competitive enough compared to other tools, it will simply crash out the market, the employees will just find new jobs and the users will all move to other music making tools. It won't be the first or the last popular software to crash out the market, remember Netscape Navigator? Life still goes on. But for now I still find Reason to be a very useful piece of software.
Look man, people are torn right now, I'm torn. Used Reason since 4 and supported every upgrade till things got sketchy with 10. Your way of viewing things implies that if it crashes and burns, then so be it. Many of us don't want it to crash and burn because what Reason brings to the table. Switching to another DAW to make music will not be easy at all. It could change my whole course of viewing production. It's like if Apple went out of business so loyal customers now must try to find the best PC, Do I go Chromebook, Windows, Linux, but NOTHING is like Apple.

It's way too conflicting and unnerving for it to simply be a walk away scenario. Personally, it'll take me time to really decide on what DAW to try next cause I hate producing in the insert pop-up window mindset after using Reason.
People were torn by Reason 8, 9 & 10. In fact at version 4.0 which is when I joined, people were torn by the changes they made to the sequencer, some people still don't like the new sequencer but they're still here. Like I've said on other threads; moaning about paid Reason updates within the user community is now tradition and the only updates people don't whinge about are the free point updates. Looking back through the years if all these version updates were as bad as people on forums say they are, then none of us would have stuck around this long. I have a hunch that the vast majority of Reason users are not very vocal online, they're happy with Reason and they spend their time actually making music.

Reminiscence
Posts: 102
Joined: 31 May 2016

Post 07 Sep 2019

Yay! Confirmed Acid Music Studio 11 supports VST3, Reason 11 here I come. Funny thing is, Acid Music Studio 11 doesn't support Rewire, lol.

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Creativemind
Posts: 2997
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

Post 07 Sep 2019

miscend wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Kalm wrote:
06 Sep 2019


Look man, people are torn right now, I'm torn. Used Reason since 4 and supported every upgrade till things got sketchy with 10. Your way of viewing things implies that if it crashes and burns, then so be it. Many of us don't want it to crash and burn because what Reason brings to the table. Switching to another DAW to make music will not be easy at all. It could change my whole course of viewing production. It's like if Apple went out of business so loyal customers now must try to find the best PC, Do I go Chromebook, Windows, Linux, but NOTHING is like Apple.

It's way too conflicting and unnerving for it to simply be a walk away scenario. Personally, it'll take me time to really decide on what DAW to try next cause I hate producing in the insert pop-up window mindset after using Reason.
People were torn by Reason 8, 9 & 10. In fact at version 4.0 which is when I joined, people were torn by the changes they made to the sequencer, some people still don't like the new sequencer but they're still here. Like I've said on other threads; moaning about paid Reason updates within the user community is now tradition and the only updates people don't whinge about are the free point updates. Looking back through the years if all these version updates were as bad as people on forums say they are, then none of us would have stuck around this long. I have a hunch that the vast majority of Reason users are not very vocal online, they're happy with Reason and they spend their time actually making music.
Think they've stuck around thinking well the next update will see Reason acquiring the necessary workflow features it needs. Then 10 came, let down really. They said, more will come in the point updates. Then about 6 features came (midi grid thing, 128th note snap, multi-lane edit, adjust multiple faders, + button and VST optimisation). Think that was it. Then because VST optimisation took so long to implement I think people thought well, it was definitely needed so were happy to conclude, the time taken to do that stopped more features being implemented and I think that left people expecting a lot from Reason 11....sadly not. I hate to say it but more instruments / fx weren't needed. People would've excepted updates to existing devices such as Kong, Thor, NN-XT or Combinator but not new things that you can get elsewhere via VST.

In my opinion, at least 10 more little workflow improvements should've been in 11 and themes affect the mixer with possibly more themes as well and 1 native device update. That would've been worth £100. I mean £100, it's a third of the price of the full software price.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.4 / Cockus Reaper 5.982 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Pro Tools First / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

two shoes
Posts: 250
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 07 Sep 2019

ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum, but i want to explain something many of you don't seem to understand in very very clear and simple terms. people are talking about V11 as if it was some good faith effort on Props part to deliver a legitimate update that moved that product forward and addressed some of the things that have been unanimously demanded for oh, i don't know, a decade or so? as if they gave it the ole college try and came up short despite their best and most sincere efforts.

in fact nothing could be further from the truth, they made a deliberate, considered decision to ignore virtually one hundred percent of the user feedback they were getting in favor of a multi-pronged stab at a short term revenue bump that signals the beginning of a long term wind-down, cash out strategy to leverage their existing ip into maximum roi for ownership who have already initiated an exit strategy.

there will be essentially zero significant new ip coming out of Props from this point on. now it's all about selling us the same aging crap over and over again with different skins or sample sets and whatever other used car lot tactics they can brainstorm over the next few months - after all if something doesn't generate the revenue you were hoping for just pretend you never said any of the things you said when it launched and leave the page up on your website like rewards. what little spending they do will be on promotional materials and marketing to try and divert attention from what they're actually doing with the company and products for as long as possible.

from this point on there will be little to no reinvestment of any future revenue into Reason - they will essentially pull every last red penny they can out of the company in an attempt to recoup a failed investment. i know it hurts to hear and will make some of you emotional, but the current ownership of Reason Studios literally could not care less about the product itself, the interests or needs of its customers, or probably even its employees - that's simply the nature of the type of business Verdane run, and if you think they are going to turn out to be some kind of exception to the rule that's just wishful thinking.

from here on out it will be one hundred percent about looting the company and squeezing every last sleazy penny they can out of their rapidly shrinking user base before the clueless suckers realize what's happenning. there will be increasingly absurd attempts to maintain the fiction that Reason Studios is a healthy company with long term plans for it's flagship for the sole purpose of continuing to sell a zombie product to the heavily invested or sentimental users who can't accept the reality they're facing right up to the minute the bankruptcy is announced and the authorization and sync servers are taken offline.

this may all be news to some of you, but it damn sure isn't news to the leadership and ownership at Reason Studios. you don't release a major product version in 2019 that doesn't work on hi-res displays, that's not a thing. what is a thing is realizing that a product has no long term future and choosing not to throw away any more resources on any type of development that would be expensive and time consuming due to the challenges of reworking an aging code base. the performance improvements were an exception because it got to the point where that was an existential threat to the longer term (probably 2-5 yrs) cash out plan.

just look at Props behavior over the past 18 months - the writing has been on the wall for a while now, but i think a lot of us, including myself, were thinking how weird and idiosyncratic a company Props have been and just hoping against hope that their actions didn't really mean what they seemed to be signalling. well the gloves are off now and the contempt for their customers is laid bare for anyone capable of critical thought. the pretense from here on out will be strictly for children and marks.

regardless of what Mattias tells you Props just gave all of you the ultimate middle finger and said thanks for floating us this long, have fun with your crossfades suckers. wake up and smell the reality of this situation folks, all the pathetic attempts to make up excuses they were too lazy or indifferent to make for themselves aren't going to change a damn thing. half of you sound like battered spouses explaining why their abuser really loves them and they just need to give them one more chance.
Last edited by two shoes on 07 Sep 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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EnochLight
Posts: 5649
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Location: your mom

Post 07 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum
:roll: :lol:

You'll come back.

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK... :D
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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boingy
Posts: 708
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 07 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2019
two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum
:roll: :lol:

You'll come back.

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK... :D
Not only will he come back. He'll upgrade to R11 eventually. :lol:

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dannyF
Posts: 75
Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Location: Uranus

Post 07 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum, but i want to explain something many of you don't seem to understand in very very clear and simple terms. people are talking about V11 as if it was some good faith effort on Props part to deliver a legitimate update that moved that product forward and addressed some of the things that have been unanimously demanded for oh, i don't know, a decade or so? as if they gave it the ole college try and came up short despite their best and most sincere efforts.

in fact nothing could be further from the truth, they made a deliberate, considered decision to ignore virtually one hundred percent of the user feedback they were getting in favor of a multi-pronged stab at a short term revenue bump that signals the beginning of a long term wind-down, cash out strategy to leverage their existing ip into maximum roi for ownership who have already initiated an exit strategy.

there will be essentially zero significant new ip coming out of Props from this point on. now it's all about selling us the same aging crap over and over again with different skins or sample sets and whatever other used car lot tactics they can brainstorm over the next few months - after all if something doesn't generate the revenue you were hoping for just pretend you never said any of the things you said when it launched and leave the page up on your website like rewards. what little spending they do will be on promotional materials and marketing to try and divert attention from what they're actually doing with the company and products for as long as possible.

from this point on there will be little to no reinvestment of any future revenue into Reason - they will essentially pull every last red penny they can out of the company in an attempt to recoup a failed investment. i know it hurts to hear and will make some of you emotional, but the current ownership of Reason Studios literally could not care less about the product itself, the interests or needs of its customers, or probably even its employees - that's simply the nature of the type of business Verdane run, and if you think they are going to turn out to be some kind of exception to the rule that's just wishful thinking.

from here on out it will be one hundred percent about looting the company and squeezing every last sleazy penny they can out of their rapidly shrinking user base before the clueless suckers realize what's happenning. there will be increasingly absurd attempts to maintain the fiction that Reason Studios is a healthy company with long term plans for it's flagship for the sole purpose of continuing to sell a zombie product to the heavily invested or sentimental users who can't accept the reality they're facing right up to the minute the bankruptcy is announced and the authorization and sync servers are taken offline.

this may all be news to some of you, but it damn sure isn't news to the leadership and ownership at Reason Studios. you don't release a major product version in 2019 that doesn't work on hi-res displays, that's not a thing. what is a thing is realizing that a product has no long term future and choosing not to throw away any more resources on any type of development that would be expensive and time consuming due to the challenges of reworking an aging code base. the performance improvements were an exception because it got to the point where that was an existential threat to the longer term (probably 2-5 yrs) cash out plan.

just look at Props behavior over the past 18 months - the writing has been on the wall for a while now, but i think a lot of us, including myself, were thinking how weird and idiosyncratic a company Props have been and just hoping against hope that their actions didn't really mean what they seemed to be signalling. well the gloves are off now and the contempt for their customers is laid bare for anyone capable of critical thought. the pretense from here on out will be strickly for children and marks.

regardless of what Mattias tells you Props just gave all of you the ultimate middle finger and said thanks for floating us this long, have fun with your crossfades suckers. wake up and smell the reality of this situation folks, all the pathetic attempts to make up excuses they were too lazy or indifferent to make for themselves aren't going to change a damn thing. half of you sound like battered spouses explaining why their abuser really loves them and they just need to give them one more chance.

Wow. That's some narrative. Interesting.

As much as I do not like where this narrative is going.... it sounds like there is much truth here.

This guy 'two shoes' has his eyes wide open.

Who/what is Verdane?
Last edited by dannyF on 07 Sep 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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artotaku
Posts: 462
Joined: 09 May 2015
Location: Munich, Germany

Post 07 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2019
two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum
:roll: :lol:

You'll come back.

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK... :D
And if not - Reason will follow. Like it now does as VST in other DAWs. No plugin format will be save from Reason anymore. Reason comes. No chance to escape :D

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boingy
Posts: 708
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 07 Sep 2019

dannyF wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Who/what is Verdane?
Verdane is the group of venture capitalists who bought Propellerhead two and a half years ago.
Verdane have installed "their guy" at the top of PH and renamed the company.
They will be looking to sell it off within the next couple of years and they need to make a profit on their investment.
Selling PH (RS) will not be the end of the company but it is likely to lead to a few changes. Changes can be good. Changes can be bad. :|

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joeyluck
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Post 07 Sep 2019

Reason 11 may not have the biggest things from my wishlist, but for every feature included, you can easily find tons of requests for those features made by other users. And I'll be pretty happy to make use of what is there now.

I presented this math in another thread... But Reason 10 will have spanned 23 months from its release to the release of Reason 11. At $129 to upgrade, that is $5.61/month. That includes all the features we got when Reason 10 was released and all of the point updates along the way. People seem way too emotionally invested in something that (A) Does in fact have things users requested, just not what they personally wanted (B) is just the initial release and (C) will equate to about a few dollars a month over its lifetime. Seriously.

two shoes
Posts: 250
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 07 Sep 2019

boingy wrote:
07 Sep 2019
EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2019


:roll: :lol:

You'll come back.

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK... :D
Not only will he come back. He'll upgrade to R11 eventually. :lol:
yeah i probably will upgrade at some point just so i can take my beloved RE instruments with me, but i swear ima wipe my ass with that $129 before i give it to razin studios. two shoes signing off, i wish ya'll the best in your future creative endeavors.

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Raveshaper
Posts: 1065
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
07 Sep 2019
two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum
:roll: :lol:

You'll come back.

THEY ALWAYS COME BACK... :D
It's funny because when everything you say is a counter-argument to refute different thinking than your own, probably best to laugh at someone when you can't admit they're right.

***

two shoes, there's a lot of us on this same track, including the vast majority of public and professional perception of this release as a whole. We're ahead of the curve on this and where there's this much smoke, there's a fire.

Don't get it twisted, there are a lot of people who need to justify the amount of money they put into this company any way they can and not everyone deals with facing the realities of financial loss gracefully or in an adult way. There's a "reason" why loners, introverts, lone wolves, and contrarian control freaks flock to this software and the result is an unparalleled level of toxicity in the customer demographics. Plus some people are hanging on to being big fish in a shrinking pond. It's an ego/identity trip for them and they're used to the comfort of that routine and prestige. It's "their thing" and it's fading away.

These are grown men, old enough to be our dads in some cases. I don't really feel pity, they oughtta know way better. It's like what postal workers always say when you ask them why they don't quit if they hate the job so much:

"I can't quit now, I've put too much time in."

I loved this post so much I had to re-up it in its entirety. Much respect. Sleep well knowing no matter what others may say, you are doing what is right for you. And also, history will progress to reveal you were right overall.
two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
ok, this is my final post in this thread and maybe in this forum, but i want to explain something many of you don't seem to understand in very very clear and simple terms. people are talking about V11 as if it was some good faith effort on Props part to deliver a legitimate update that moved that product forward and addressed some of the things that have been unanimously demanded for oh, i don't know, a decade or so? as if they gave it the ole college try and came up short despite their best and most sincere efforts.

in fact nothing could be further from the truth, they made a deliberate, considered decision to ignore virtually one hundred percent of the user feedback they were getting in favor of a multi-pronged stab at a short term revenue bump that signals the beginning of a long term wind-down, cash out strategy to leverage their existing ip into maximum roi for ownership who have already initiated an exit strategy.

there will be essentially zero significant new ip coming out of Props from this point on. now it's all about selling us the same aging crap over and over again with different skins or sample sets and whatever other used car lot tactics they can brainstorm over the next few months - after all if something doesn't generate the revenue you were hoping for just pretend you never said any of the things you said when it launched and leave the page up on your website like rewards. what little spending they do will be on promotional materials and marketing to try and divert attention from what they're actually doing with the company and products for as long as possible.

from this point on there will be little to no reinvestment of any future revenue into Reason - they will essentially pull every last red penny they can out of the company in an attempt to recoup a failed investment. i know it hurts to hear and will make some of you emotional, but the current ownership of Reason Studios literally could not care less about the product itself, the interests or needs of its customers, or probably even its employees - that's simply the nature of the type of business Verdane run, and if you think they are going to turn out to be some kind of exception to the rule that's just wishful thinking.

from here on out it will be one hundred percent about looting the company and squeezing every last sleazy penny they can out of their rapidly shrinking user base before the clueless suckers realize what's happenning. there will be increasingly absurd attempts to maintain the fiction that Reason Studios is a healthy company with long term plans for it's flagship for the sole purpose of continuing to sell a zombie product to the heavily invested or sentimental users who can't accept the reality they're facing right up to the minute the bankruptcy is announced and the authorization and sync servers are taken offline.

this may all be news to some of you, but it damn sure isn't news to the leadership and ownership at Reason Studios. you don't release a major product version in 2019 that doesn't work on hi-res displays, that's not a thing. what is a thing is realizing that a product has no long term future and choosing not to throw away any more resources on any type of development that would be expensive and time consuming due to the challenges of reworking an aging code base. the performance improvements were an exception because it got to the point where that was an existential threat to the longer term (probably 2-5 yrs) cash out plan.

just look at Props behavior over the past 18 months - the writing has been on the wall for a while now, but i think a lot of us, including myself, were thinking how weird and idiosyncratic a company Props have been and just hoping against hope that their actions didn't really mean what they seemed to be signalling. well the gloves are off now and the contempt for their customers is laid bare for anyone capable of critical thought. the pretense from here on out will be strickly for children and marks.

regardless of what Mattias tells you Props just gave all of you the ultimate middle finger and said thanks for floating us this long, have fun with your crossfades suckers. wake up and smell the reality of this situation folks, all the pathetic attempts to make up excuses they were too lazy or indifferent to make for themselves aren't going to change a damn thing. half of you sound like battered spouses explaining why their abuser really loves them and they just need to give them one more chance.
:reason: :ignition: :re: :refillpacker: Enhanced by DataBridge v5

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dannyF
Posts: 75
Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Location: Uranus

Post 07 Sep 2019

joeyluck wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Reason 11 may not have the biggest things from my wishlist, but for every feature included, you can easily find tons of requests for those features made by other users. And I'll be pretty happy to make use of what is there now.

I presented this math in another thread... But Reason 10 will have spanned 23 months from its release to the release of Reason 11. At $129 to upgrade, that is $5.61/month. That includes all the features we got when Reason 10 was released and all of the point updates along the way. People seem way too emotionally invested in something that (A) Does in fact have things users requested, just not what they personally wanted (B) is just the initial release and (C) will equate to about a few dollars a month over its lifetime. Seriously.
Your math puts things into a different perspective. Thanks.

Sequencer folders is a bit more than personal request... I get what you are saying. To my mind, Reason would be perfect if it just had this feature. I would literally pay for the development myself......

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antic604
Posts: 2265
Joined: 23 Oct 2017
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 07 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
07 Sep 2019
...multi-pronged stab at a short term revenue bump that signals the beginning of a long term wind-down, cash out strategy to leverage their existing ip into maximum roi for ownership who have already initiated an exit strategy.
There's one problem with this - in order to sell with profit, Verdane needs to make sure Reason Studios makes money in the foreseeable future. Buyer doesn't get a company, they pay for its future cashflow.

So I'm betting on this:
antic604 wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Raveshaper wrote:
04 Sep 2019
I think that Verdane is holding a lemon and I think by how rushed this announcement has been it signals an even bigger rush to sell. PH had 20 years and did nothing. I think Verdane is just as unimpressed as everyone else. The name change is damage control so the buyer will be more receptive to the unfamiliar brand name. Just my analysis.
That's a pretty big word.

I'm known to not be the most optimistic person here, but my take on the situation is slightly different and probably less gloomy. I think Verdane saw potential in RE platform and Reason's user base when investing.

The RE platform - as seen e.g. in the Juce YT videos - was conceived as a really forward-thinking framework and now it can clearly both transform REs into VSTs (Europa was the test case) or run as a VST in other DAWs (Rack VST). It can also be ported to browser / mobile and hardware, but that's not appealing to me so I wasn't giving it much thought, but I'm sure Verdane was. What if their ambition is to build a platform "competing" with the decentralised and scattered VST market, offering the benefit of single-account login, easy installation and updates, piracy protection, centralised marketplace? Sure, it's not gonna be appealing to Waves or Arturia, but smaller developers might be tempted to give up some of the profit to get rid of all the hassle! What really made me think this was the direction is name change to "Reason Studios" that I immediately linked to how Sony Santa Monica turned into Santa Monica Studios few years ago - they continued to create games for Playstation, but also were an "umbrella" company for smaller developers, helping them with tools, technology, marketing, etc. What if Reason Studio wants to be that for smaller VST devs, who'd from now on do REs taking advantage of all the infrastructure but would still be available to other DAWs via Rack VST? If they could pull it off, there's definitely money to be made there.

The user base - because I'm more of a music production tools enthusiast than a music producer, I'm a member and follow multiple Facebook groups for different DAWs or tools and believe me - no community is as vibrant, active and dynamic as Reason's. We probably have fraction of user base that Live or Cubase or by now even Studio One has, but literally NOTHING is going on in those groups. Also someone recently calculated the amount of money we spend on REs and that was 3 or 4x what we spend on Reason upgrades AFAIK and that's also worth something for Verdane.

The real question therefore is how Reason - the desktop app - fits into that? Can the RE platform and user base exist without it? I don't think so and I'm sure Reason Studios & Verdane are aware of that and they WILL develop it further, just were not able to show the big guns at 11. Looking at 9.5, 10.2, 10.3 and now 11 I can see slow increase in scope and complexity of the topics tey tackle, so perhaps indeed they're only now digging into this old code, but I guess better late than never?

As I said multiple times - I'm upgrading to 11 to have my native & RE devices in Bitwig, but I'm also staying hopeful I'll come back to Reason DAW one day, because I love(d) it despite it being frustrating as hell sometimes. If they can fix those frustrations - and they're not with what makes Reason special & unique, e.g. the patching of cables, mixer, skeuomorphic look! - I'm back in.
Bitwig 3 // Reason 10 // Studio One 4 Pro @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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EnochLight
Posts: 5649
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 07 Sep 2019

Raveshaper wrote:
07 Sep 2019
It's funny because when everything you say is a counter-argument to refute different thinking than your own, probably best to laugh at someone when you can't admit they're right.
That's adorable.

You're not the first armchair Internet financial analysts to think their doom and gloom predictions aren't being given the weight you feel they should have. You won't be last. :thumbs_up:

Also, stop gas-lighting. That was cheap and ageist.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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guitfnky
Posts: 1266
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 07 Sep 2019

does anyone really think Ernst would have sold his life’s work to a company if he thought they would just cash in and let it fail? (not sure how that would work, exactly, but I’ll set that aside.)

I don’t know anyone who would leave their legacy in hands like that.

seriously, the logical leaps being taken by some of these doomsayers...it’s entertaining, at least, I guess. :lol:

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miscend
Posts: 1312
Joined: 09 Feb 2015

Post 07 Sep 2019

boingy wrote:
07 Sep 2019
dannyF wrote:
07 Sep 2019
Who/what is Verdane?
Verdane is the group of venture capitalists who bought Propellerhead two and a half years ago.
Verdane have installed "their guy" at the top of PH and renamed the company.
They will be looking to sell it off within the next couple of years and they need to make a profit on their investment.
Selling PH (RS) will not be the end of the company but it is likely to lead to a few changes. Changes can be good. Changes can be bad. :|
Ernst said he handpicked a successor himself from outside the company. He even said he would have gone earlier but they were waiting for the right candidate.

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