Announcing Reason 11

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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tc13
Posts: 45
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

two shoes wrote:
05 Sep 2019
i hate the new v11. i think they've betrayed their core userbase.

.
Wtf!? I read your full post before it was changed...and so much anger and hatred over a computer program and a company seems to border to obsession in a very unhealthy way.

What is this ”core userbase” I keep hearing so much about? This is starting to go beyond stupid... That and ”loyal user” what does it really mean? As a ”loyal” user you get to upgrade to every new version cheaper, about a third of full price. In my book that counts as a reward for being a ”loyal user”

Complaining about an upgrade on forums is more or less the norm, it does not matter what app, or DAW you choose to look at. There are always going to be people that are unhappy, and as always they are vocal about it.

On all other places the reactions are very positive, I dont think I ever seen such reactions about a new version of Reason. And many negative posts I recognize since they post with the same name as here.
Last edited by tc13 on 05 Sep 2019, edited 1 time in total.

EdGrip
Posts: 1856
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 05 Sep 2019

Here's where I'm at - I bought one of them £89 Reason 10 boxed upgrades last week, to be converted to R11 later this month.

And then I saw an offer for a brand new Live Suite licence that was too good to refuse. So I bought that too! (Sorry antic604!! ^_^ )
Exciting times ahead!

antic604

Post 05 Sep 2019

EdGrip wrote:
05 Sep 2019
And then I saw an offer for a brand new Live Suite licence that was too good to refuse. So I bought that too! (Sorry antic604!! ^_^ ). Exciting times ahead!
I'll chalk that up to you experiencing psychical trauma from reading all those Reason 11 posts... :? :cry:

But seriously, Live is awesome. I'd have stayed with it if v10 was released before I got Bitwig v2, because it fixed a lot of issues I had with v9.7. Good choice! :thumbs_up:

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QVprod
Posts: 2479
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

tc13 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
two shoes wrote:
05 Sep 2019
i hate the new v11. i think they've betrayed their core userbase.

.
What is this ”core userbase” I keep hearing so much about? This is starting to go beyond stupid... That and ”loyal user” what does it really mean? As a ”loyal” user you get to upgrade to every new version cheaper, about a third of full price. In my book that counts as a reward for being a ”loyal user”
There's a perception amongst a few that "loyal" and "core" users don't use other DAWs. For some, creating a song entirely in Reason is a badge of honor. Add that to the majority of people on this forum are probably Reason only users, and it's easy to forget the user base is far larger than the user count here. The amount of people who use Reason and something else is probably much larger than many think.

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guitfnky
Posts: 2122
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

tc13 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
two shoes wrote:
05 Sep 2019
i hate the new v11. i think they've betrayed their core userbase.

.
On all other places the reactions are very positive, I dont think I ever seen such reactions about a new version of Reason. And many negative posts I recognize since they post with the same name as here.
all other places, meaning what forums? I’m sure the R11 update is very exciting for users of other DAWs. so I wouldn’t be surprised to see lots of interest on Ableton forums, or Reaper forums, or facebook groups where many users are already using other DAWs.

what people mean when they’re referring to “core users” (at least in this context) is users who use Reason as their primary/only DAW. for many of those users, including myself, Reason 11 is underwhelming. understandable, considering the main feature of the upgrade doesn’t benefit us (unless we consider using other DAWs).

dezma
Posts: 224
Joined: 02 Jun 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

fretshot7 wrote:
04 Sep 2019
You know the problem I think we all have is -
There is nothing quite like opening up a new Reason Rack.

Not one other daw comes even close.
And this is the problem, no one wants to move DAWs but when you feel you are being taken for a mug you gotta fight back and our only way to do that is voice our discontent and use our wallet.

Thats me finished re-checking out Live, which is ok, but doesn't stimulate the juices like opening a fresh Reason Rack. Neither does S1.

Im gonna listen to the dude that says skip this version and go with 12.
I know what you mean, and I do own Live but never really got sucked into the program. However I'm quite pleasantly surprised by S1. I just discovered this little hidden gem called splitter in the mix channel edit which means you can do a lot of reason-ish stuff in a very intuïtive way (ok,ok, CV is a big part of the reason fun but I'm talking about audio routing).

I really hope they do another mad -50% sale at black friday. From the crossgrade price this would mean Studio one for the price of a reason upgrade. :cool:

Image

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gullum
Posts: 777
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Location: Faroe Islands

Post 05 Sep 2019

I would say anyone using reason rewired to another daw for let's say 10+ years is as much a core user as anyone using only Reason for 10+ years.
the badge core user is a badge some people like to put on like they are in some exclusive gentlemen club or something. Are you more loyal user if you upgrade every version since 1 and never bought a RE or Refill from Propellerhead then someone who came onboard with v.10 and now has bought all their RE's?

antic604

Post 05 Sep 2019

dezma wrote:
05 Sep 2019
Image
Yep, Extended FX Chains are great, as are Multi Instruments, Scratch Pads, Mix FX, new Chord Track

BTW, S1 4 Pro can be very often found at around $150$170, like here:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... e#p7508978

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guitfnky
Posts: 2122
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

gullum wrote:
05 Sep 2019
I would say anyone using reason rewired to another daw for let's say 10+ years is as much a core user as anyone using only Reason for 10+ years.
the badge core user is a badge some people like to put on like they are in some exclusive gentlemen club or something. Are you more loyal user if you upgrade every version since 1 and never bought a RE or Refill from Propellerhead then someone who came onboard with v.10 and now has bought all their RE's?
of course users who update to use new devices in Rewire are loyal—I don’t think anyone would dispute that. but given the general distaste people seem to have for Rewiring, I’d say that user base is likely fairly small.

and personally, I think the idea of Reason being available as a VST is a great idea. I just don’t think it should have been marketed as the flagship feature of a major upgrade—it sends mixed messages to those of us who use it as a DAW (which, for better or worse has been its main use case for the last 8 or 9 years now).

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tc13
Posts: 45
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
05 Sep 2019

of course users who update to use new devices in Rewire are loyal—I don’t think anyone would dispute that. but given the general distaste people seem to have for Rewiring, I’d say that user base is likely fairly small.

and personally, I think the idea of Reason being available as a VST is a great idea. I just don’t think it should have been marketed as the flagship feature of a major upgrade—it sends mixed messages to those of us who use it as a DAW (which, for better or worse has been its main use case for the last 8 or 9 years now).
Why shouldn't the fact that Reason is now available as a VST, be a flagship feature? This must be one of the most requested features in Reasons history, and it is something that will gives RS a lot more potential customers, than anything else they could have done.
Reason Intro is like $99 and gives you Europa (which was +$100 on its own as a VST), Thor, Kong, Subtractor, ReDrum, Scream, RV7000 and a lot more...

If it is not for you (not directed to anyone in person but as a general "you"), just wait for the next upgrade, there is no point in upgrading just for the sake of it. Even more so since you don't get any penalty for upgrading from any earlier versions.

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guitfnky
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Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

tc13 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
guitfnky wrote:
05 Sep 2019

of course users who update to use new devices in Rewire are loyal—I don’t think anyone would dispute that. but given the general distaste people seem to have for Rewiring, I’d say that user base is likely fairly small.

and personally, I think the idea of Reason being available as a VST is a great idea. I just don’t think it should have been marketed as the flagship feature of a major upgrade—it sends mixed messages to those of us who use it as a DAW (which, for better or worse has been its main use case for the last 8 or 9 years now).
Why shouldn't the fact that Reason is now available as a VST, be a flagship feature?
Reason, at this point in time, is a DAW first. using it to Rewire is secondary functionality for most users.

that means most people who have bought Reason in the last 10 years or so have purchased it for use as a DAW. so when you release a major version that doesn’t cater to those who use it as their main DAW, of course there’s going to be a lot of concern/speculation.

at the end of the day, if they’d marketed it differently, and delivered a few more highly requested workflow features, the end result as far as actual functionality would be the same (i.e. users of other DAWs would still have the ability to use Reason as a VST), but the perception of users would not have been so hesitant (because we wouldn’t be wondering if the DAW side of things might start getting less and less attention).

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EnochLight
Posts: 6213
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 05 Sep 2019

Last Alternative wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Propeller Studio is giving us lunch meat and charging for steak. They don’t even answer my questions. Reason is behind the times and never catches up. I feel like a hostage with all the REs I bought. To think they won’t spend all their time now on RVST improvements is absurd. It’s a small company and that is their new cash cow. They made it clear core functionality and overhaul is last priority. They changed for the worst and there’s no end in sight. So fuck this company! I’m over it.

P.S. I love Reason but I hate PH. Wanna try something else but don't wanna go down another financial rabbit hole. So torn.
Damn, Jason. That’s pretty harsh.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

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boingy
Posts: 791
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 05 Sep 2019

antic604 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
dezma wrote:
05 Sep 2019
Image
Yep, Extended FX Chains are great, as are Multi Instruments, Scratch Pads, Mix FX, new Chord Track

BTW, S1 4 Pro can be very often found at around $150$170, like here:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... e#p7508978
Here's a great example of what you can do with FX chains in Studio One "The Bigness of Huge Drum Sound":

https://blog.presonus.com/index.php/201 ... rum-sound/

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dannyF
Posts: 175
Joined: 14 Jun 2019
Location: Uranus

Post 05 Sep 2019

boingy wrote:
05 Sep 2019
antic604 wrote:
05 Sep 2019


Yep, Extended FX Chains are great, as are Multi Instruments, Scratch Pads, Mix FX, new Chord Track

BTW, S1 4 Pro can be very often found at around $150$170, like here:
https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopi ... e#p7508978
Here's a great example of what you can do with FX chains in Studio One "The Bigness of Huge Drum Sound":

https://blog.presonus.com/index.php/201 ... rum-sound/
"Analog" delay. LOL

sleep1979

Post 05 Sep 2019

EnochLight wrote:
05 Sep 2019
Last Alternative wrote:
04 Sep 2019
Propeller Studio is giving us lunch meat and charging for steak. They don’t even answer my questions. Reason is behind the times and never catches up. I feel like a hostage with all the REs I bought. To think they won’t spend all their time now on RVST improvements is absurd. It’s a small company and that is their new cash cow. They made it clear core functionality and overhaul is last priority. They changed for the worst and there’s no end in sight. So fuck this company! I’m over it.

P.S. I love Reason but I hate PH. Wanna try something else but don't wanna go down another financial rabbit hole. So torn.
Damn, Jason. That’s pretty harsh.
i dunno its kinda true its not easy to leave unless you make this upgrade
because any other software with the same amount of instruments is like plus £300
and then you would need to pay £100 or whatever to take your plugins with you
do props know what they are doing? because there making it easy for people to leave now you don't have to ever lose your plug ins
but because you wont lose them there's the option you may come back and buy more even if you do leave
you haven't really left
why because you have rack extensions in there you paid for get rid of the license the racks are still there
you cant never leave Reason studios muhahahaha lol




by the way i was emailing acoustica mixcraft about there current deals and they told me version 9 is coming soon
they told me this while version 8 is on sale ( they dont seem money grabby at all )
sounds like a nice company
tried it out though ugly bummmer
i do like the way reason is bring back the good old days

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EnochLight
Posts: 6213
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 05 Sep 2019

sleep1979 wrote:
05 Sep 2019
i dunno its kinda true its not easy to leave unless you make this upgraded
No, my comment was more in response to Jason's:
They changed for the worst and there’s no end in sight. So fuck this company! I’m over it.

P.S. I love Reason but I hate PH
That's harsh.
Win 10 | Reason 11 |  Studio One 4.5 | i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro | Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 and System 1 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion | Roland TB-3 | Roland VT-4 | Roland MX-1

Yonatan
Posts: 1204
Joined: 18 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

Reason has not many on Youtube talking about it, so the few there are is nice to see.
I hope for some showing off of the new devices and the Rack Plugin when released.

I have no ipad so have not tried the Reason Compact yet, but I agree on the strange
thing to pay for instruments already having on the Reason full version. If that is so.

I like both positive and sceptical thoughts on R11, as long as it is based on Logic and Reason, and the mind is ALive! :)

COMPACT: Reason 11’s biggest scam ☠️ (for now)


Relax. Reason 11 Will Be Dope

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2452
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

I really think the best thing for people to do is just...try it. On September 25th, grab the demo and use it in standalone and/or as a VST and you'll know very, very quickly if it's worth the price of admission for you. There's a lot of speculation and drama surrounding this release. And to a certain extent I get it, especially if you're heavily invested in the platform. God knows I am - my device lists are comically huge :lol: But ya know, take a breather. Try the demo. Plan your next move from there.

Having been on the beta for about a day (and without divulging any sensitive info!) I can say that this update is definitely for me. The new features and effects are super useful, and while there aren't that many, it's worth the price because I fully intend on using the Rack VST in my other DAW, Cubase Pro 10. Which, btw, is a hell of an experience. As I tweeted earlier, in dark mode it almost feels like a new feature of Cubase. Clever move. I will be using the rack for instruments and effects *way* more than my tired old Komplete Suite because I know the devices so well and can get so much more out of them with sequencing and modulation and routing. But I won't have to tie my hands and forgo Cubase's amazing sequencer and audio functionality any more just to use them. So for me, it's a win.

For those of you who don't have a second DAW...well I toooootally get why it's a tough situation. Do you invest and hope for more features in 11.5? Do you wait until 12+ and carry on with 10? Or do you cut your losses altogether and jump ship? Maybe what's needed is an additional upgrade tier that just gives you the new features for a few bucks (or maybe none!). But, that's not where we're at right now so my suggestion is this; if you've been making great music in R10, keep doing that. You don't need 11 just because it exists. And you won't be penalised for skipping a version if you decide to hold out. Alternatively, you could get on the upgrade path for any of the other major DAWs (Cubase Artist, Ableton Lite, etc.) and have access to most of the things you're waiting for in Reason, right now. Then with 11, you "unlock" your RE collection from the Reason ecosystem, and greatly expand the functionality of your host DAW in the process. Then just...see where it goes. At least you've got a foot in both doors.

I dunno. These are just my thoughts. Like I said, for me it's a must-have. I'll continue to use Reason as a DAW for what it's best at, but I look forward to combining it with other software when I need what it has. And I'm really looking forward to sharing tips and ideas on it too now that I'm back up and running with video finally! Turns out not everything is easier on a Mac ;)

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guitfnky
Posts: 2122
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

totally agree with all of that. I can only speak for my own outspokenness (that’s a weird phrase 😆) on v11—I mainly wanted to make sure Props understood *why* many of us are disappointed. to that end, Mattias has responded directly to myself and others to assure us that they are aware, and to further commit to the Reason DAW. that eases my mind considerably, and hopefully does the same for many others.

at this point, I’ve mostly relegated myself to defending those initial vocal moments, but find I still have to trot out the same reasons used there, in order to explain. I guess that’s my roundabout way of saying I could probably stand to relegate myself further, to the point of just shutting up on the topic of R11 for now. 😂

Andy
Posts: 74
Joined: 03 May 2017

Post 05 Sep 2019

QVprod wrote:
05 Sep 2019
tc13 wrote:
05 Sep 2019


What is this ”core userbase” I keep hearing so much about? This is starting to go beyond stupid... That and ”loyal user” what does it really mean? As a ”loyal” user you get to upgrade to every new version cheaper, about a third of full price. In my book that counts as a reward for being a ”loyal user”
There's a perception amongst a few that "loyal" and "core" users don't use other DAWs. For some, creating a song entirely in Reason is a badge of honor. Add that to the majority of people on this forum are probably Reason only users, and it's easy to forget the user base is far larger than the user count here. The amount of people who use Reason and something else is probably much larger than many think.
Exactly. R11 is one of the best moves they have made imo and this is coming from someone who only use Reason. Its cool for existing users but also well played for new users. Think about how cool it will be to say buy Reason as a way to get into making music but still have to option to use other DAW but still have access to the stuff you learned on and enjoy using.

I did not realize Korg Gadget has already done this. Use can use it stand alone on desktops, iOS and the instruments as plugins for various DAWs. Props seems to be doing the same and tying everything together slowly but surely.

A lot of these folks act as if Reason and making music begins and ends with them.

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parma
Posts: 29
Joined: 19 Feb 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
05 Sep 2019
to that end, Mattias has responded directly to myself and others to assure us that they are aware, and to further commit to the Reason DAW.
Where did this happen?

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2452
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

guitfnky wrote:
05 Sep 2019
totally agree with all of that. I can only speak for my own outspokenness (that’s a weird phrase 😆) on v11—I mainly wanted to make sure Props understood *why* many of us are disappointed. to that end, Mattias has responded directly to myself and others to assure us that they are aware, and to further commit to the Reason DAW. that eases my mind considerably, and hopefully does the same for many others.

at this point, I’ve mostly relegated myself to defending those initial vocal moments, but find I still have to trot out the same reasons used there, in order to explain. I guess that’s my roundabout way of saying I could probably stand to relegate myself further, to the point of just shutting up on the topic of R11 for now. 😂
Yeah man I totally believe the core app will continue to grow, and honestly I think bringing all these new (and in some cases old) users who want to stay in another DAW will help make that happen. Reason, despite its shortcomings, is still an amazing sequencer for me. Automation is super easy (clips and static values NEED to be in Cubase like, yesterday). Remote mapping is easy. Global undo. The ability to swap instruments without interrupting playback. The ability to save audio into the project file. There’s a lot to like. I won’t be abandoning it by any means! But I am excited to have options.

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diminished
Posts: 1685
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 05 Sep 2019

parma wrote:
05 Sep 2019
guitfnky wrote:
05 Sep 2019
to that end, Mattias has responded directly to myself and others to assure us that they are aware, and to further commit to the Reason DAW.
Where did this happen?
viewtopic.php?p=461433#p461433

and later

viewtopic.php?p=461460#p461460

TL;DR: So they primarily want to expand the userbase with this update and that good, smart and understandable. We all will profit from it in the long run. It still sucks for many people in the short term, but I guess that's just the price we have to pay (or not, because there's not need to upgrade if you only use Reason like chimp_spanner put so well in his post above).
Last edited by diminished on 05 Sep 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

sleep1979

Post 05 Sep 2019

this will go on and on

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parma
Posts: 29
Joined: 19 Feb 2015

Post 05 Sep 2019

diminished wrote:
05 Sep 2019
parma wrote:
05 Sep 2019


Where did this happen?
viewtopic.php?p=461433#p461433

and later

viewtopic.php?p=461460#p461460
Thanks

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