Where is Unison? Subtractor / Malmstrom/ Thor?

[samsome]

Where is Unison? Subtractor / Malmstrom/ Thor?

do they have unison?

thanks

[pushedbutton]

we usually just sellotape a UN16 to them.

[Boombastix]

Use Thor "multi-osc" and dial it up. Use 3 of them for more. Add a little chorus. It's the "biggest" I think of the of the old stock units.

[chaosroyale]

They do not (well- Thor has a "multi" osc, but it's not stereo), and the old UN16 half-rack FX unit doesn't sound too great, and is not the same as the modern "supersaw" style of unison.
Luckily, this being Reason, there is an easy way to get incredibly huge, powerful, unison. Let's use Subtractor as an example, but you can extrapolate to Thor, etc. >

1. Design your basic sound and write your bassline/whatever using Subtractor as a mono (as in, non-stereo) instrument.

2. Plug Subtractor into ch.1 of a mini line mixer.

3. Copy and paste a couple more Subtractors with the same patch, and add them to ch.2 and ch.3 of the line mixer. Pan one about halfway left and one about halfway right (or wherever you like). Bring down their levels a bit.

4. This is the important part > slightly detune the L and R subtractors, AND if you wanna go extra huge, subtly alter some small details of the patch, such as LFO speed, balance between OSC 1 & 2, filter envelope, etc.

5. Put everything in a combinator so you can save the patch, and set up control knobs for things like "unison width" and "detune amount" etc.

6. Now you have a ridiculously huge unison patch that can be dialed up or down as much as you like. I find that making the mini mixer panning maximally wide and using the SSL to bring down the stereo image slightly and pan the whole thing where I want, is a good way to control it.

What is good about this approach, is that -yes- it is harder than a "unison switch" but it can give more complex and nuanced results, such as a gentle hi-pass on the side synths preserve a solid bass, or using the FX send on the mini mixer for the "main" synth only, to give a clearer, more melodic reverb, for example. In other words, it is a perfect example of the strong and weak points of Reason.

Where is Unison? Subtractor / Malmstrom/ Thor?

do they have unison?

thanks

[esselfortium]

I've found that UN16 sounds pretty good as a send effect, to add more thickness and movement to a sound. As an insert it can feel a bit underwhelming.

[Loque]

chaosroyale nailed it. Unisone are detuned oscillators, do it yourself - full control!

Malstrom has some multi wave samples too AFAIR.

[Ahornberg]

Put a handful of SubTractors and a Line Mixer 6:2 in a Combinator and setup one knob for detune and another knob for stereo spread.

[scratchnsnifff]

They do not (well- Thor has a "multi" osc, but it's not stereo), and the old UN16 half-rack FX unit doesn't sound too great, and is not the same as the modern "supersaw" style of unison.
Luckily, this being Reason, there is an easy way to get incredibly huge, powerful, unison. Let's use Subtractor as an example, but you can extrapolate to Thor, etc. >

1. Design your basic sound and write your bassline/whatever using Subtractor as a mono (as in, non-stereo) instrument.

2. Plug Subtractor into ch.1 of a mini line mixer.

3. Copy and paste a couple more Subtractors with the same patch, and add them to ch.2 and ch.3 of the line mixer. Pan one about halfway left and one about halfway right (or wherever you like). Bring down their levels a bit.

4. This is the important part > slightly detune the L and R subtractors, AND if you wanna go extra huge, subtly alter some small details of the patch, such as LFO speed, balance between OSC 1 & 2, filter envelope, etc.

5. Put everything in a combinator so you can save the patch, and set up control knobs for things like "unison width" and "detune amount" etc.

6. Now you have a ridiculously huge unison patch that can be dialed up or down as much as you like. I find that making the mini mixer panning maximally wide and using the SSL to bring down the stereo image slightly and pan the whole thing where I want, is a good way to control it.

What is good about this approach, is that -yes- it is harder than a "unison switch" but it can give more complex and nuanced results, such as a gentle hi-pass on the side synths preserve a solid bass, or using the FX send on the mini mixer for the "main" synth only, to give a clearer, more melodic reverb, for example. In other words, it is a perfect example of the strong and weak points of Reason.

I recommend using 3 separate synths.

If you use three subtractor synths, you’ll get that weird phase laser sound because of the starting point of subtractors oscillator

Also, Europa is the best bet for a modern supersaw by far, the additive nature of Europa lets you use the modifiers to have a weird but useful unison on the oscillator itself ( using the modifier unison) along side the more traditional analog approach which uses the unison module to the right hand side.


Iv gotten many great results with the legacy devices, but you have to build a chain of them and use different synths.

An example of what I meant,

Use one Thor with all 3 oscillators
One malström with both oscillators (pick sawtooth *16 for both)

And a subtractor as a polyphonic sub oscillator

Make the Thor cover octave 2 and 3 among the 3 oscillators
Make the malström 0 and + 1
And the subtractor 0 and -1

Of course use a line mixer and combinator.
Route rotary 1 to filter 1 of Thor and filter A Of malström. Also filter frequency of subtractor

Rotary 2 of combinator to the filter envelopes

Set rotary 3 to the fine tune of the three Thor oscillators. I like to do something like 0 -> -7...0->+10 and 0-> -12 or something

Rotary 3 for the malström set motion as destination and set it to -64-> +11 and -64 -> +13

No change to tuning of subtractor unless you pick the - mode of the phase modifier.
This creates a PWM type of effect for the sawtooth either the minus sign or the multiply sign

Add what ever stereo effects you want I suggest only a chorus as a send FX on the line mixer.

Then reverb and delay use the big mixer (SSL)

Any EQ or compression should go into the output from the line mixer

So just to reiterate, aux FX into line mixer and sound shaping after the line mixer. You can click on the mixer and add something and it auto routes as a send to the line mixer the effect you add will be highlighted and you can add more to the send/AUX via auto route by just adding more FX by clicking on the previous FX.
But to add something to the output click on on the mixer itself and auto route will make sure your putting it to the output

Sorry for the wordy suggestions, Iv found better success with this type of working

Where is Unison? Subtractor / Malmstrom/ Thor?

do they have unison?

thanks

[aeox]

Supersaw.zip

(2.54 KiB) Downloaded 119 times

Edit: Forgot to mention something. The phase is modulating at different rates per subtractor, so when you first load it you have to wait a bit so it's not all phase-y

[jlgrimes]

chaosroyale nailed it. Unisone are detuned oscillators, do it yourself - full control!

Malstrom has some multi wave samples too AFAIR.

Malmstrom actually does a pretty nice supersaw esp once you start combinating.

Supersaws have been Reasons biggest weakness until Europa came out though (assuming you aren't using REs that specialize in Supersaws)

Thor sounds good but is mono.

Reason users had to rely on combinators for the phat sounds.

That said people have gotten great sounds out of using basic Subtractors using Combinators and effects. But it takes time and patience.

[chimp_spanner]

For super saw stuff out of the box just use Europa. But for an even better one, Antidote all the way!

[selig]

Supersaws have been Reasons biggest weakness until Europa came out though (assuming you aren't using REs that specialize in Supersaws)

Thor sounds good but is mono.

The original super saw (JP8000) was also mono, and no one complained.

These days I'd agree I'd rather use Antidote or Euroropa for a wide stereo spread oscillator, but one could also grab one of many available Combinator patches and never otherwise lift a finger and have instant stereo super saws in Reason (for many years now).

[Oquasec]

Thor should be able to create it's own effect via the modmatrix if you mean making a DIFFERENT unison from the built in chorus or the un device
If you mean creating custom effects then use the modmatrix to dial in control points.
I think you can make a ring modulator too somewhere

[EdGrip]

And don't forget Megasaur!

[Loque]

And don't forget Megasaur!

You are right. This thing can do some amazing super saws. Add a long plate and some delay and you just play around for 30 minutes and forget the world around you. Its just not a stock synth.

[Loque]

I cannot remember how many Super Saw patches i posted here...But i do it again

This time i had a little fun with programming the S&C Player via a Matrix and the sound itself...man...none of my super saws ever sound the same as before

[samsome]

Use Thor "multi-osc" and dial it up. Use 3 of them for more. Add a little chorus. It's the "biggest" I think of the of the old stock units.

when you say dial it up what u mean?

thanks

[Oquasec]

Subtractor has a multiply button you can use

[samsome]

but one could also grab one of many available Combinator patches and never otherwise lift a finger and have instant stereo super saws in Reason (for many years now).

where do you grab them from?

[aeox]

And don't forget Megasaur!

Does that usually go on sale during black friday?

[aeox]

Supersaw.zip

Forgot to mention something. The phase is modulating at different rates per subtractor, so when you first load it you have to wait a bit so it's not all phase-y Guess I could've just changed the phase for each one, but thought it would be cooler to always have the phase changing.

[decoder]

Subtractor has a multiply button you can use

Where is this multiply button located on Subtractor?
...I've never heard of that...

[Baylo]

Subtractor has a multiply button you can use

It’s a bit late on a Sunday so my thinking/logic might be off, but I’m pretty sure the multiply function in Subtractor is something else entirely.

I think it’s used to have the (phase-shifted) amplitudes of the two oscillators interact - I seem to recall there’s an example in the manual where one saw wave is subtracted from another phase-offset saw wave to create a square wave. The “multiply” function similarly multiplies the two amplitudes together to create a new waveform. I don’t *think* that’s the same as multiplying the actual number of oscillators to get the same effect as unison. Especially as Subtractor is mono.

But I could be wrong, and am happy to be corrected!

[decoder]

I see what you are saying Baylo, and it totally make sense...

Still, I would like Oquasec to chime in and answer my query...
The location of this elusive multiply button please.

[Baylo]

I see what you are saying Baylo, and it totally make sense...

Still, I would like Oquasec to chime in and answer my query...
The location of this elusive multiply button please.

Next to the Osc 1 and Osc 2 labels. There is a mode button to select between ‘x’, ‘-‘ and ‘o’. ‘X’ would be the multiply mode.