Re: What do you think will be new in Reason 11?
Posted: 23 Jul 2019
I sincerely hope this is the case. I don't think the older crowd needs to be marketed to, in any shape or form. The older crowd needs to adapt or get left behind. Reason's charm is definitely the fact that it has elements of the old gearhead world, its why I use it because the visual experience makes me more creative. However, I think its now translating to a poor user experience. There are many VSTs that maintain a balance between realism and functionality. Whereas Reason, as it stands, looks old and works old - which is why it will struggle to appeal to the younger crowd, and may lose its footing if PH don't actually ask for input from said younger crowd.
At this rate, the younger blood will be the old crowd by the time they do anything significant.
Propellerhead always had the spirit of trial and error in their marketing strategies and product development. From the major shift between version 5 to Record, their investment in security and shift in marketing, the REs, etc...jedirobots wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019
I personally feel as if there's a disconnect between PH's marketing and the actual experience of the product.
so does the older crowd.
what does it matter who they’re catering to? whether the target demographic is the younger crowd, and the younger crowd wants workflow improvements, or the target demographic is the older crowd, and the older crowd wants workflow improvements, the end result is the same.
Yeh, I didn't mean to oust the older crowd. My view is actually that the older crowd just happen to be those doing this as a side-hobby and they've become content with having a regular career and perhaps only making music when the rest of the family goes sleep etc for enjoyment and nothing more. You're spot on with your comments, and that's part of my view to linking the older crowd to complacency. If you're doing this as a side-hobby for maybe a few hours a week (at best), you wouldn't be savvy to all these tricks that the kids are picking up on, because kids have the time to figure it out and no baggage to stop them.joeyluck wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please
not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...joeyluck wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please
Young adults / teenagers are, because of the very fact that they haven't been it before, the demographic that's generating the majority of _new_ sales. So I think the term progress in the context of "music making software" should indeed be read as "catering their needs".guitfnky wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...joeyluck wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please
It's a big challenge for a DAW to place itself in niche marketing. In Reason's case the major drawback of that strategy is the lack of connectivity and collaboration with different software and hardware companies/developers. Ableton for instance provides a copy of its Lite version with most of the modern controllers and hardware, and is also very well compatible. For a new user, he/she will obviously choose the most popular/accessible and least restricted DAW.diminished wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019
I don't want to discuss if that's good or bad in regard to the higher good which is musical art, but I'd like to point out that it's a SHAME that the free version of Reason, Reason Lite, never get's mentioned in threads like "Guys new producer here what DAW should I get". Nobody even knows of the existence of Reason Lite it seems. That's just bad marketing, Props.
I agree that different generations have (sometimes vastly) different opinions on what constitutes an improvement—all I’m taking issue with is the notion that older generations are inherently against change, and that we must rely on the young for they alone have the vision and imagination to drive progress. that’s BS (not directing that at you, or anyone in particular—just stating it as a general fact). everyone welcomes improvements; we all just differ on how to define what constitutes an improvement.diminished wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019Young adults / teenagers are, because of the very fact that they haven't been it before, the demographic that's generating the majority of _new_ sales. So I think the term progress in the context of "music making software" should indeed be read as "catering their needs".
Oh I agree. I feel I could have said that differently. Mostly I'm just sick of the derogatory comments and jokes about the younger crowd from the closed-minded. Not particularly in this thread, but when I see people make comments about what younger people want; typically quick to throw the hipster label around, about how they just want "toys," and how a tablet can't ever replace a laptop... I'm reminded of people who said serious music can't be made on a computer and it will never replace a full studio of hardware...and then said serious music can't be made on a laptop... And I agree that progress is driven from everyone, but a great deal of the time it comes from folks who have a fresh outlook on things. And that's not always the younger crowd, but it is a good amount of the time.
agree 1000%. looking down one’s nose at any other group of users is totally unwarranted, and thank you for trying to keep us from derailing down that path. we’re all using the same software, and all want it to be improved with each release. it’s not helpful when people are dismissive of others’ suggestions towards that goal, especially if doing so on the basis of any group they might be a part of.
You said this:reggie1979 wrote: ↑24 Jul 2019Man, I'm sorry I said anything.
I was referring to the new regime and that they could easily be catering to young/new/hip vs. what us seasoned users want.
You said "icrap" 3 times. You said people aren't making music with it, which is very untrue. You said they are just "farting around." You referred to it as a game for the young...reggie1979 wrote: ↑23 Jul 2019But the older crowd isn't the demographic.
The icrap thing was supposed to be the next big thing and then all these icrap companies realized people were still making music on laptops and desktops on a fully functioning DAW. I'm sure plenty of icrap stuff made money, but people aren't making "music" much with it. They are just farting around.
If their business model does indeed go that way, I'm not sure what it would look like.
Personally, I can't make music on a phone. I guess that is a game for the young?