What do you think will be new in Reason 11?

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antic604
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Post 23 Jul 2019

Spryx wrote:
22 Jul 2019
Probably a couple features to enhance the sequencer as this seems to be a pain point with a lot of users. Possibly some sort of display scaling.
Maybe multi-channel midi and support for a VST-Midi player device.
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Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
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gdm41
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Post 23 Jul 2019

I think they going towards mobile integration and a subscription model.
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jedirobots
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Post 23 Jul 2019

Steedus wrote:
23 Jul 2019
I'm guessing it'll be mostly features to entice new younger users like all their marketing has been lately. Not that i'm against that, but I think they're probably more focused on gaining new younger blood over pleasing the old crowd these days.
I sincerely hope this is the case. I don't think the older crowd needs to be marketed to, in any shape or form. The older crowd needs to adapt or get left behind. Reason's charm is definitely the fact that it has elements of the old gearhead world, its why I use it because the visual experience makes me more creative. However, I think its now translating to a poor user experience. There are many VSTs that maintain a balance between realism and functionality. Whereas Reason, as it stands, looks old and works old - which is why it will struggle to appeal to the younger crowd, and may lose its footing if PH don't actually ask for input from said younger crowd.

I personally feel as if there's a disconnect between PH's marketing and the actual experience of the product. The official tutorials are so fantastic, quick, sharp, yet dumbed down... but the day-to-day experience is not the best for anything other than a side hobby. I could use any of the recent player extensions as an example... which are sold at a pricepoint you'd expect to pay for a substantial program update.
I appreciate their subscription approach, especially if they can do something interesting with it; along the lines of one-click mixing/mastering and upload to spotify... this would definitely appeal to the younger crowd. However, their mobile approach is beyond baffling. The older crowd doesn't use smartphones as often, and the younger crowd (at best) would use their mobiles in tangent i.e. be on social or stream their workflow, not to mention they'd take their laptop everywhere... I could be wrong, but someone seriously working at a career in music will be flipping between having their ass sat down at their computer desk, or working on their laptop wherever possible. Not be restricted to a 5 inch screen with restrictive controls and no access to their soundbanks.

I feel as if the Reason audience is split in 2; the older gearhead using an old version of Reason, and is adamant its the greatest (but hasn't properly experienced any other DAW). And then there's the person that loves Reason, but are seeing cracks form in its prehistoric UI/Workflow, mainly thanks to the explosion of online videos sharing tips in other DAWs. I'd wager to say that Reason is perhaps the only DAW whereby a large percentage of its serious users are using it in tangent with another DAW, because as creatively fantastic as it is, its heavily beginning to fall behind as the company makes decisions whereby it annexes its younger audience. I could compare it to Nexus whereby it quickly outdated itself by being closed and not inclusive, and most people wouldn't look twice at it over newer, cheaper and more functional VSTs such as Omnisphere or Serum.

I actually spoke to a Reason mascot a few weeks ago who consistently posts popular YouTube tutorials, and they said that their viewership is on average aged around 40/50+ who still use seriously outdated versions of Reason (like v3, v5 etc). In addition - I've noticed that a few mascots that I'd once watched on YouTube (who create music as their day or side job) are now porting over to other DAWs such as Ableton, Studio One or FL Studio, which makes me wonder if there's a definitive correlation between those that say that Reason is perfect as it is, and said audience's day job / hours spent with the software per week.

Younger crowds want speed and workflow above everything. All PH needs to do is drop a blog post or two every now and then to let the people know of their intentions. In addition to keep everyone calm and more appreciative, they could simply drop a small paid update (at the same cost of the extortionate players) that quickly fixes the most common issues such as better functionality of the sequencer. And I care enough about Reason to pay for these simple updates that other DAWs have had for a few years now. I'm worried that this continued approach to try cater to the older crowd and not including the younger crowd in its decisions is going to lead to PH not having an audience left once the older crowd is gone.

Michaellos
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Post 23 Jul 2019

gdm41 wrote:
23 Jul 2019
a subscription model.
No... no,no I hope that will never happen

Undistraction
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Post 23 Jul 2019

Steedus wrote:
23 Jul 2019
I'm guessing it'll be mostly features to entice new younger users like all their marketing has been lately. Not that i'm against that, but I think they're probably more focused on gaining new younger blood over pleasing the old crowd these days.
At this rate, the younger blood will be the old crowd by the time they do anything significant.

EdGrip
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Post 23 Jul 2019

Great post by jedirobot. I concur.
10 was explicitly the content update.
I'm betting 11 is the workflow and mechanics update.

owlymane
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Post 23 Jul 2019

jedirobots wrote:
23 Jul 2019

I personally feel as if there's a disconnect between PH's marketing and the actual experience of the product.
Propellerhead always had the spirit of trial and error in their marketing strategies and product development. From the major shift between version 5 to Record, their investment in security and shift in marketing, the REs, etc...

For me props is a very interesting business case in the DAW industry. They took a major risk in investing in strong security, which they then took advantage of to create a profitable ecosystem. That strong vision and the closed ecosystem distracted them from focusing on their core product and customers and from regular competitive analysis.

Every strong decision has a downfall. I really commend Props for what they've done so far. Those were major risks they took. It shouldn't have been easy for the team and specially not for the founders. So applause for reaching the objectives :clap:

Now that this is on the way, I don't believe they have another choice but to focus mostly on their core product: Reason. If they decide anything else, it would be as if they are selling a modern-looking car with decent accessories but with a diesel engine.

What you're saying definitely holds true. For example, Reason often advertised their product for acoustic/rock bands, yet they don't provide live sessions and fluent live performance. Ableton is no doubt the biggest shareholder of this market. Props should either change their marketing target or invest in providing the best experience for the acoustic/rock customer target.

I've never been so eager to find out how Reason sees itself in the next decade. 10 years have passed since their groundbreaking shifts, really excited to see what's next :D

reggie1979
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Post 23 Jul 2019

Taco Bell (or Pizza Hut) will win the franchise wars and all DAW's will be Taco Bell (or Pizza Hut)

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guitfnky
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Post 23 Jul 2019

jedirobots wrote:
23 Jul 2019
Steedus wrote:
23 Jul 2019
I'm guessing it'll be mostly features to entice new younger users like all their marketing has been lately. Not that i'm against that, but I think they're probably more focused on gaining new younger blood over pleasing the old crowd these days.
Younger crowds want speed and workflow above everything.
so does the older crowd.

reggie1979
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Post 23 Jul 2019

But the older crowd isn't the demographic.

The icrap thing was supposed to be the next big thing and then all these icrap companies realized people were still making music on laptops and desktops on a fully functioning DAW. I'm sure plenty of icrap stuff made money, but people aren't making "music" much with it. They are just farting around.

If their business model does indeed go that way, I'm not sure what it would look like.

Personally, I can't make music on a phone. I guess that is a game for the young?

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guitfnky
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Post 23 Jul 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
23 Jul 2019
But the older crowd isn't the demographic.
what does it matter who they’re catering to? whether the target demographic is the younger crowd, and the younger crowd wants workflow improvements, or the target demographic is the older crowd, and the older crowd wants workflow improvements, the end result is the same.

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boingy
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Post 24 Jul 2019

Actually I think the older crowd IS the demographic. Reason is a niche product.

The only way Reason is going to explode into the "must have" category for "da youth" is if it becomes popular with the latest street music scene (whatever comes next after grime, trap etc).

I genuinely believe a big obstacle to Reason becoming more widespread is the fact that it cannot be pirated. I'm not suggesting anything should change about that but most kids can't/won't afford software so they'll be using bootleg versions of Live, FL Studio and whatever their favourite artist uses.

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joeyluck
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Post 24 Jul 2019

Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please :)

zoidkirb
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Post 24 Jul 2019

I'm predicting a brand new sampler. Nnxt is feeling a bit tired and is missing time stretching. Thor/maelstrom already kinda got replaced in 10 by Europa/grain, and kong has been superseded by a number of paid re's.
I think there will be some basic qol updates to the sequencer but nothing earth shattering.
Hd makeover: I want to believe but I feel props are REALLY taking their time with this one as it's more complicated doing this right then people think. Maybe R12 then, but I live in hope nevertheless.

jedirobots
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Post 24 Jul 2019

joeyluck wrote:
24 Jul 2019
Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please :)
Yeh, I didn't mean to oust the older crowd. My view is actually that the older crowd just happen to be those doing this as a side-hobby and they've become content with having a regular career and perhaps only making music when the rest of the family goes sleep etc for enjoyment and nothing more. You're spot on with your comments, and that's part of my view to linking the older crowd to complacency. If you're doing this as a side-hobby for maybe a few hours a week (at best), you wouldn't be savvy to all these tricks that the kids are picking up on, because kids have the time to figure it out and no baggage to stop them.

There's plenty of amazing older producers that really love music, but they're not using Reason religiously. The older crowd I'm referring to are the ones that put too much weight in the enjoyment of being able to physically wire something up and jump through several hoops to get a simple drum pattern going, whereas the younger crowd want to get to the same end goal in 2 clicks because they're hungry to get the ideas flowing asap.

FYI @boingy Reason has already been cracked, I recall seeing it online very recently. I think no kids are running to Reason because it doesn't make the most sense, and isn't really all that great to work with if you compare it to other DAWs that don't require 3 screens to make use of each section effectively. In regards to the 'street scene'; there are some key players that use Reason, most notably some members of Dr. Dre's production team and Key Wane who produces for Big Sean (he most recently produced Cardi B's latest single which is near to the top of the billboards right now). But I don't think it will matter who is using it, because visibly it just doesn't make sense when you have all the kids online showing tutorials of FL Studio and Ableton where you can knock something together in less than half the time.

I don't want to bash it at all - but for the past few years, Reason is not practical, it's just super creative and fun to work in - making it difficult to leave fully.
Last edited by jedirobots on 24 Jul 2019, edited 2 times in total.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Jul 2019

joeyluck wrote:
24 Jul 2019
Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please :)
not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...

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diminished
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Post 24 Jul 2019

guitfnky wrote:
24 Jul 2019
joeyluck wrote:
24 Jul 2019
Yeah if the old crowd is the demographic folks want them to cater to, well then we have everything already. We already have more than anything I ever had growing up. More than some professional artists had when I was kid. It's the youth that progesses things. It's because of the features and innovation they want...it's those things they push for to get added to DAWs that many didn't even think they needed, but now feel like they do. So chill out with the ageism BS, please :)
not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...
Young adults / teenagers are, because of the very fact that they haven't been it before, the demographic that's generating the majority of _new_ sales. So I think the term progress in the context of "music making software" should indeed be read as "catering their needs".

I don't want to discuss if that's good or bad in regard to the higher good which is musical art, but I'd like to point out that it's a SHAME that the free version of Reason, Reason Lite, never get's mentioned in threads like "Guys new producer here what DAW should I get". Nobody even knows of the existence of Reason Lite it seems. That's just bad marketing, Props.

owlymane
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Post 24 Jul 2019

diminished wrote:
24 Jul 2019

I don't want to discuss if that's good or bad in regard to the higher good which is musical art, but I'd like to point out that it's a SHAME that the free version of Reason, Reason Lite, never get's mentioned in threads like "Guys new producer here what DAW should I get". Nobody even knows of the existence of Reason Lite it seems. That's just bad marketing, Props.
It's a big challenge for a DAW to place itself in niche marketing. In Reason's case the major drawback of that strategy is the lack of connectivity and collaboration with different software and hardware companies/developers. Ableton for instance provides a copy of its Lite version with most of the modern controllers and hardware, and is also very well compatible. For a new user, he/she will obviously choose the most popular/accessible and least restricted DAW.

If Reason decides to stay niche, they must invest in upgrading their engine to the highest quality possible. They should also seriously consider creating a dedicated hardware controller(s) to be able to fully control Reason. At that point, they could seek for credible/reputed vintage analog hardware companies that would offer Reason Lite with every sale of their product.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Jul 2019

diminished wrote:
24 Jul 2019
guitfnky wrote:
24 Jul 2019


not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...
Young adults / teenagers are, because of the very fact that they haven't been it before, the demographic that's generating the majority of _new_ sales. So I think the term progress in the context of "music making software" should indeed be read as "catering their needs".
I agree that different generations have (sometimes vastly) different opinions on what constitutes an improvement—all I’m taking issue with is the notion that older generations are inherently against change, and that we must rely on the young for they alone have the vision and imagination to drive progress. that’s BS (not directing that at you, or anyone in particular—just stating it as a general fact). everyone welcomes improvements; we all just differ on how to define what constitutes an improvement.

regardless of how any individuals define it, there’s bound to be immense overlap in generational groups. in my view, that’s what a good company should be focused on, because it’s generationally agnostic.

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joeyluck
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Post 24 Jul 2019

guitfnky wrote:
24 Jul 2019
not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...
Oh I agree. I feel I could have said that differently. Mostly I'm just sick of the derogatory comments and jokes about the younger crowd from the closed-minded. Not particularly in this thread, but when I see people make comments about what younger people want; typically quick to throw the hipster label around, about how they just want "toys," and how a tablet can't ever replace a laptop... I'm reminded of people who said serious music can't be made on a computer and it will never replace a full studio of hardware...and then said serious music can't be made on a laptop... And I agree that progress is driven from everyone, but a great deal of the time it comes from folks who have a fresh outlook on things. And that's not always the younger crowd, but it is a good amount of the time.

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Wobbleburger
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Post 24 Jul 2019

Possibly a new device/tool that takes advantage of Probability or If/Then. I'm thinking along the lines of the new Delta MIDI Computer RE, or the CV Probability RE. Also maybe a bigger, more robust Spider CV/Audio to replace the outdated smaller ones.
I like jungle.

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guitfnky
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Post 24 Jul 2019

joeyluck wrote:
24 Jul 2019
guitfnky wrote:
24 Jul 2019
not to be pedantic, but suggesting that the younger crowd pushes progress implies that the older crowd does not—that itself is ageist...
Oh I agree. I feel I could have said that differently. Mostly I'm just sick of the derogatory comments and jokes about the younger crowd from the closed-minded.
👍🏼 agree 1000%. looking down one’s nose at any other group of users is totally unwarranted, and thank you for trying to keep us from derailing down that path. we’re all using the same software, and all want it to be improved with each release. it’s not helpful when people are dismissive of others’ suggestions towards that goal, especially if doing so on the basis of any group they might be a part of.

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diminished
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Post 24 Jul 2019

:thumbs_up: :thumbs_up:

reggie1979
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Post 24 Jul 2019

Man, I'm sorry I said anything.

I was referring to the new regime and that they could easily be catering to young/new/hip vs. what us seasoned users want.

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joeyluck
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Post 24 Jul 2019

reggie1979 wrote:
24 Jul 2019
Man, I'm sorry I said anything.

I was referring to the new regime and that they could easily be catering to young/new/hip vs. what us seasoned users want.
You said this:
reggie1979 wrote:
23 Jul 2019
But the older crowd isn't the demographic.

The icrap thing was supposed to be the next big thing and then all these icrap companies realized people were still making music on laptops and desktops on a fully functioning DAW. I'm sure plenty of icrap stuff made money, but people aren't making "music" much with it. They are just farting around.

If their business model does indeed go that way, I'm not sure what it would look like.

Personally, I can't make music on a phone. I guess that is a game for the young?
You said "icrap" 3 times. You said people aren't making music with it, which is very untrue. You said they are just "farting around." You referred to it as a game for the young...

I feel you could express your thoughts on mobile music creation, which there is strong growth and huge market, that you think that it is driven by a younger demographic and that it's not your cup of tea without resorting to trying to bash it like that.

But it's everybody, including the younger crowd that contribute to the new features that we all want, on desktop and mobile, that we didn't know we needed until we learned about them.

This reminds me so much of the debates over making music on a computer and then on a laptop. And this comic comes to mind (not directed at anybody's age, because we all age). Yes, this comic refers to videogames/VR, so please don't try to spin it on me lol. But I feel it applies to everything.

Image

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