Ambient Album: How would you go about it.

[MrFigg]

When the KLF brought out Chill Out and Space, way back then, coming home late from dancing all night took on a new meaning. Then all of a sudden the genre exploded...Pete Namlook, The Orb, Dreamfish etc etc etc. Then illbient...DJ Spooky...you get the picture. Name checking and history of music will stop now before I get going.

Anyway...been listening to a few of these old classics lying on the sofa, sun streaming in through the windows somewhere between waking and sleep.

So...to the question (and I know everyone will have a different answer and that's what I'm interested in)...say you were doing a 90 minute ambient album (two sides of a C90) where would you start? If you don't know the albums or the artists I've mentioned then this may be a hard question to answer as the only explanation I can give is that they take you on a journey (is that too twee). Evolving textures, beats coming in and out, new themes introduced, surprising developments but all the time a sense of coherence.
To me a 5 minute song is well within the realms of possibility...even some sort of 10 minute long Early 70s German Experimental Drone Prog. I just can't get my head around how that first KLF or that first Orb cd was brought together. How do you plan it, compose it and record it?

So that's the question. Anybody share their ideas with me?

[MarkTarlton]

I enjoy all the artists you mentioned, and have most of them in my collection. I really like the dark side of the moog series, and one that I still go back to is axiom ambient. if you were going for old school ambient one technique is to record everything normal and than slow down to half speed aka brian eno, but he did it with tape which adds another dimension

[MrFigg]

I enjoy all the artists you mentioned, and have most of them in my collection. I really like the dark side of the moog series, and one that I still go back to is axiom ambient. if you were going for old school ambient one technique is to record everything normal and than slow down to half speed aka brian eno, but he did it with tape which adds another dimension

Aaaaa….the Brian Eno sort of ambient I can do. Same with Lee Ranaldo or Main type soundscapes. I was more meaning in terms of The Orb's first LP or KLF Chill Out. Those are like total compositions. Different segments that go in and out of each other but hold that sense of coherence throughout. Do you know what I'm getting at?

[selig]

Not sure the specific answer you're looking for…
The only way I know how to do an album that flows from song to song is to start with the individual songs. Then, DJ style, try running them in different orders and create segues between each track (using found sounds, dialog, nature/city sounds, musical bits, etc). During the process, you can probably identify some songs that naturally flow together, and found a good start and end song (I call this "book-ending" the album sequence). From there you may even need to compose additional music to fit into any gaps that don't flow well with the available material.

Basically, you just keep working until you create a natural flow from song to song, just as when you work on an individual song to create a flow from section to section, or on an even more micro level, how you create flow from note to note in a melody or from chord to chord in a chord progression.

It's simply a larger version of how to build a song, as I see it, so you scale up your process appropriately!

[Lokey]

That period was cheesy af,
They started something
But god drums n pads are awefull

[Zac]

Delays. Lots and lots of delays. And what Selig said.

[MrFigg]

Basically, you just keep working until you create a natural flow from song to song, just as when you work on an individual song to create a flow from section to section, or on an even more micro level, how you create flow from note to note in a melody or from chord to chord in a chord progression.

Ha ha...yeah. That's pretty much what I was thinking myself. I've really got it in my head at the moment to do that C90 tape but I just know that if I start I'm going to end up working on it until I go to pension. It would be good though to kerb that need for 20 minute instant gratification sessions, at least for a while. Hmmm...time to delve into the found sounds box. Thanks

[nickb523]

How do you plan it, compose it and record it?

I don't think there is a plan. Most of us just "do stuff" and over time it grows into something. Try as best as you can to separate yourself from outside connotations and just go with your own sense of flow.

Personally, i doodle ideas all the time, and then later apply my own personal stories to the music based on the way i feel at the given moment.

It's hard to explain.

Nick

[plaamook]

And of course, Future Sound of London. But I digress...

I make music like this. Albums tend to be more straight albums but live sets are basically exactly as you describe and they are my master pieces IMO. It doesn't sound like their music (the early masters) but the layout is similar and that's where the inspiration originally came from.

This is how I work.
I jam a lot. Some things start as 'textures' and evolve into songs, some things just stay sound design textures and romps. Project folders have sub folders of just sound design, loads of sketches, different phases I go through during the ride that all come together in the end.
I try to keep everything as modular as possible so that anything from any song or texture can be used in any other song or fill betwen songs.
I work on pads and grooves (pretty abstract verions of these things but you gotta call em something) separately and then add them together in various combinations. This is where Reason shines because you can open two or even three songs (R10.3!!!) and see how things fit. Pitch things into place and you're away.
But the thing is to not to try to write songs as such. Just make sounds you like and go from there generally.
Eventually I end up with loads of things that go nowhere on their own but together you've got an album or a set that has trajectory.
And when working with more experimental sounds its very freeing because you don't need to figure out what a 'track' needs to do on it's own, just trust you'll fit in in somewhere.

Track lay outs... and this is where I really hate Reason because at R10.4 you still can't zoom out far enough to see a 45 min album or set.
I start chucking things on the time line to see how they hang together. Different tracks etc. Somethings need more or less to bridge them together so you may have to make new edits of certain tracks or add totally new things to get from one point to another. I might take a sound from one track, bounce it separately, and have it weave in and out of the set. Anything really.

Advice?
Start field recording. You need a lot of sound both as inspiration, for happy accidents, and for just the sheer bulk of creating that kind of density this stuff demands.
Be bold. Don't worry about confusing people. That's their problem! You're maybe creating a new language that people can only half understand but getting lost then found again is part of the ride.

Think that's all I got.

[plaamook]

All that said, I'm thinking the next album is gonna basically be a live set. I hate the constraints of writing albums but working like that, making an ambient ride, that's great fun.
I just have to make up my mind about what to use and how!

[plaamook]

I don't think there is a plan.

Sometimes I plan more than others. I've done things like take an image and work to that. Or a short film or film segment. Just because its interesting. You set the task of getting from A to B and see what happens.
But yes, mostly I free form my way and invent my own grammer as I go.

[plaamook]

It's simply a larger version of how to build a song, as I see it, so you scale up your process appropriately!

At it's finest it's more like classical music. Like La Mer or something. It can be as long as you like and move all over.
Those so called 'impressionists' from late 1800's to early 1900's really started something which how they got sound to move both locally and over time.
Not quite like a song in the usual sense. 'Song' to me sound more like it'll be short sweet and get to the point. Debussy struggled to get to any kind of point at times but it was amazing stuff. We're doing stuff more like that but with computers, field recording, and grooves.

[MrFigg]

And of course, Future Sound of London. But I digress...

I make music like this. Albums tend to be more straight albums but live sets are basically exactly as you describe and they are my master pieces IMO. It doesn't sound like their music (the early masters) but the layout is similar and that's where the inspiration originally came from.

This is how I work.
I jam a lot. Some things start as 'textures' and evolve into songs, some things just stay sound design textures and romps. Project folders have sub folders of just sound design, loads of sketches, different phases I go through during the ride that all come together in the end.
I try to keep everything as modular as possible so that anything from any song or texture can be used in any other song or fill betwen songs.
I work on pads and grooves (pretty abstract verions of these things but you gotta call em something) separately and then add them together in various combinations. This is where Reason shines because you can open two or even three songs (R10.3!!!) and see how things fit. Pitch things into place and you're away.
But the thing is to not to try to write songs as such. Just make sounds you like and go from there generally.
Eventually I end up with loads of things that go nowhere on their own but together you've got an album or a set that has trajectory.
And when working with more experimental sounds its very freeing because you don't need to figure out what a 'track' needs to do on it's own, just trust you'll fit in in somewhere.

Track lay outs... and this is where I really hate Reason because at R10.4 you still can't zoom out far enough to see a 45 min album or set.
I start chucking things on the time line to see how they hang together. Different tracks etc. Somethings need more or less to bridge them together so you may have to make new edits of certain tracks or add totally new things to get from one point to another. I might take a sound from one track, bounce it separately, and have it weave in and out of the set. Anything really.

Advice?
Start field recording. You need a lot of sound both as inspiration, for happy accidents, and for just the sheer bulk of creating that kind of density this stuff demands.
Be bold. Don't worry about confusing people. That's their problem! You're maybe creating a new language that people can only half understand but getting lost then found again is part of the ride.

Think that's all I got.

Thankyou very much for taking the time to write. Both comprehensive and extremely helpful. I'd also say very encouraging. I'm going to get started on some ideas I've had for a while. Again, thanks.
Oh yeah...FSOL rocked (maybe they still do). Papua New Guinea. Happy, happy days

[plaamook]

Environments 1 from Future Sound is great. Lifeforms. ISDN. They really were true masters.

[Soeno]

don't want to spam, but this is my idol in this genre, folloed by FAX records

[raider69]

Future Sound of London and their Amorphous Androgynous stuff!

Visualize it and write a sound track to that visualization.
Establish motifs/themes.
Going from the chaos of the city to the county side.
Don't think it, feel it.
The first three cuts of Enigma's MCMXC A.D. is making love to woman.
Can't lose with that one.