The DAW update challenge!?

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Creativemind
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28 May 2019

guitfnky wrote:
22 May 2019
drag their feet? they’ve been making huge improvements aimed precisely toward reworking Reason as a DAW with every release since Reason+Record, including a number of free improvements in between the major (paid) version releases. version 6 (the paid update) was even a “pay what you want” upgrade. the expectation that they can just flip a switch and all of a sudden, Reason is a fully-fleshed out DAW comparable to others that have been on the market for years without going through an iterative process of gradual improvements is ludicrous.

Reason wasn’t built to be a DAW. turning it into one without throwing away all the stuff that made it stand out isn’t a simple, or quick process.
Yes they do drag their feet. In Reason 10 we had 2 new synths (just after an sdk update to add sample loading a few months before and vst implementation 2 or 3 months after, so instruments were the last thing we needed) + Klang, Pangea and Humana, more instruments. Then Synchronous and Radical Piano (and no offence to anyone who likes it, I think is rubbish, sounds awful) thrown in as well and there was only 1 actual core program feature. It was something to do with the browser and adding things to your favourites. Then we were promised workflow things would still be coming since Reason 10 wasn't finished yet. Now let's count, that was about 9 months ago and we've had Adjust Multiple Faders, Multi-Lane Edit, the Midi Grid thing and that + thing in the rack and on the sequencer to add devices, so that's 5 core program features in a whole update plus increments when just the midi editor could do with 15+ features in itself, muting notes and midi chase to name just 2 and what about the sequencer, mixer, more themes, the rack, updating devices, there's just so much for me.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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guitfnky
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28 May 2019

Creativemind wrote:
28 May 2019
guitfnky wrote:
22 May 2019
drag their feet? they’ve been making huge improvements aimed precisely toward reworking Reason as a DAW with every release since Reason+Record, including a number of free improvements in between the major (paid) version releases. version 6 (the paid update) was even a “pay what you want” upgrade. the expectation that they can just flip a switch and all of a sudden, Reason is a fully-fleshed out DAW comparable to others that have been on the market for years without going through an iterative process of gradual improvements is ludicrous.

Reason wasn’t built to be a DAW. turning it into one without throwing away all the stuff that made it stand out isn’t a simple, or quick process.
for me.
exactly.
I write good music for good people

https://slowrobot.bandcamp.com/

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Boombastix
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28 May 2019

Abelton 10.1 just released and the advertise work flow improvements, just like Studio 1 did a few days ago, just like Cubase did a few weeks ago. I do not think we are barking up the wrong tree. Those automation curves are yummy! :shock:
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Luxuria
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28 May 2019

Boombastix wrote:
28 May 2019
Abelton 10.1 just released and the advertise work flow improvements, just like Studio 1 did a few days ago, just like Cubase did a few weeks ago. I do not think we are barking up the wrong tree. Those automation curves are yummy! :shock:
I'll jump in on a reply to this that I'm sure others will address. In terms of DAW comparison Reason and Ableton are what Pro Tools and Logic are (in my opinion). They have unique workflows first, and traditional DAW features second. The EQ and delay are something Reason has had for a while so a point for Reason and it's multipe EQ's and The Echo. The keyboard shortcuts for switching views and the user wavetables (in certain synths) is also something Reason beat Ableton in, so another point for Reason there. Export with FX returns has been in Reason. Freeze tracks with sidechain doesn't really compare since Reason has always exported with sidechained devices included if they were routed so in the rack.

Only areas that Ableton has gotten ahead is automation improvements and VST3 support.

As many have stated: no one DAW does everything the best and is ahead of the game all the time. Props to the PHeads team for what they have done.

I am anticipating the next Reason update to deliver something sweet for the DAW since 10.4 was more of a mobile update to Compact. Speaking of which, the blog post addressed the reason older devices weren't added due to "technical issues" so I guess we can be certain from here on out the legacy devices won't be ported to Compact. My guess is the legacy devices won't be seeing updates in Reason DAW and it's only new devices from here on out.

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Creativemind
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29 May 2019

reddust wrote:
28 May 2019
Creativemind wrote:
28 May 2019
The "splice" thing? what, rent-to-own? if so can you freeze rent-to-own if you don't have the money that month and resume when you have?
Yes, as far as the product is still in their list it seems you can do that:
https://support.splice.com/hc/en-us/art ... eneral-FAQ
Yes I downloaded it yesterday from Splice. You get 2 weeks free trial then rent-to-own after that and it can be frozen at any point.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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middle_color
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30 May 2019

Luxuria wrote:
28 May 2019
Freeze tracks with sidechain doesn't really compare since Reason has always exported with sidechained devices included if they were routed so in the rack.
Freeze tracks doesn't really compare since Reason does not have freeze/unfreeze option in the first place :puf_bigsmile:

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Luxuria
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30 May 2019

middle_color wrote:
30 May 2019
Luxuria wrote:
28 May 2019
Freeze tracks with sidechain doesn't really compare since Reason has always exported with sidechained devices included if they were routed so in the rack.
Freeze tracks doesn't really compare since Reason does not have freeze/unfreeze option in the first place :puf_bigsmile:
True. I don't even have bounce to audio with the version I'm on. I just rec source to a new audio track. A freeze option would be nice. I've had an easy time commiting to the take after I print audio down from midi. I'll usually do that for my heaviest dsp consuming synth, which frees up enough for the whole session to get to mixing where I'll export tracks to wavs and import into a new reason file.

I wonder why they added bounce to audio but not freeze track. Maybe they thought it was good enough?

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esselfortium
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30 May 2019

Here are some predictions for Reason 11:

- Klang and Kong combined into "Klong"
- Subtractor screws into the rack sideways
- Sequencer is now accessed via the tools palette

Image
Sarah Mancuso
My music: Future Human

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reddust
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30 May 2019

esselfortium wrote:
30 May 2019
Here are some predictions for Reason 11:

- Klang and Kong combined into "Klong"
- Subtractor screws into the rack sideways
- Sequencer is now accessed via the tools palette

Image
And they will rename the DAW to Tetreason ;)

KGB
Posts: 87
Joined: 22 Nov 2016

30 May 2019

esselfortium wrote:
30 May 2019
Here are some predictions for Reason 11:

- Klang and Kong combined into "Klong"
- Subtractor screws into the rack sideways
- Sequencer is now accessed via the tools palette

Image
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

We have to give the new CEO a chance people...but this is hilarious.

I think Props have made strides, but there's major workflow improvements still needed.

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Boombastix
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30 May 2019

esselfortium wrote:
30 May 2019
Here are some predictions for Reason 11:
- Klang and Kong combined into "Klong"
- Subtractor screws into the rack sideways
- Sequencer is now accessed via the tools palette
Lol, and I saw they have a new synth coming out soon, with hi-pass filters only. It is called T-reason :lol: :? :lol:
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Ixus
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30 May 2019

Lmao great update ideas!

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diminished
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30 May 2019

Boombastix wrote:
30 May 2019
esselfortium wrote:
30 May 2019
Here are some predictions for Reason 11:
- Klang and Kong combined into "Klong"
- Subtractor screws into the rack sideways
- Sequencer is now accessed via the tools palette
Lol, and I saw they have a new synth coming out soon, with hi-pass filters only. It is called T-reason :lol: :? :lol:
There's this famous hip hop artist doing the promo vids, I believe his name is Lying Potus or something
:reason: Most recent track: resentment (synthwave) || Others: on my YouTube channel •ᴗ•

jlgrimes
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Joined: 06 Jun 2017

03 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
28 May 2019
Boombastix wrote:
28 May 2019
Abelton 10.1 just released and the advertise work flow improvements, just like Studio 1 did a few days ago, just like Cubase did a few weeks ago. I do not think we are barking up the wrong tree. Those automation curves are yummy! :shock:


Only areas that Ableton has gotten ahead is automation improvements and VST3 support.


There is alot more than that.

1. Track Freeze
2. Nestable Racks (Combinators)
3. Overall a more flexible rack system.
4. Updated GUI.
5. Midi Draw tool.
6. Ability to change grid resolution via key shortcuts.
7. Much easier to sidechain


10.1 was huge.

Reason 10.3 was a much needed performance update and I wasn't expecting 10.4 though, the added synths were great.


I think though Props design philosophy is much different.

Where Ableton doesn't mind retweaking an old device or even concept like warping, Reason does this less often.

Some tweaks Ableton does are controversial but then if you never tweak 10 years from now the feature can have an inefficient workflow due to the competition.

Reason seems more happier adding new things or concepts than retweaking.

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Ixus
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03 Jun 2019

I would be so happy to only get a sequencer update with better audio editing, better zoomability and stuff like that...

jlgrimes
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04 Jun 2019

Ixus wrote:
03 Jun 2019
I would be so happy to only get a sequencer update with better audio editing, better zoomability and stuff like that...
Me too. I really hope 11 is in that direction. I'm guessing GUI will probably be the focus but I would think an updated GUI across the board could also be used to improve alot of things in the sequencer like full track height resizing, note muting tool, more extensive keybinding support, track freezing etc.

two shoes
Posts: 254
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

04 Jun 2019

there seems to be a near universal consensus on this forum that v11 should focus primarily or entirely on gui modernization and a major overhaul of the sequencing and editing workflow. since almost all of their customers not only agree that this is what Reason desperately needs, but agree that prioritization of these things is several versions overdue and a failure to address them in v11 would be a critical miscalculation and possibly the beginning of the end for Propellerhead. the user base couldn't be more crystal clear about what they want from the next version of Reason. so who thinks Propellerhead is gonna listen and get it right? ok, now who thinks they're going to ignore the user base and add a a-list mouth noises (slurpy, chewy, and gargly versions! only $100 each) and a component modeled electric buttwhistle instrument? history tells us not to get our hopes up for v11 just because it's painfully obvious what Reason does and DOES NOT need for the next big update.

2chris
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Mar 2019

04 Jun 2019

Luxuria wrote:
28 May 2019
Boombastix wrote:
28 May 2019
Abelton 10.1 just released and the advertise work flow improvements, just like Studio 1 did a few days ago, just like Cubase did a few weeks ago. I do not think we are barking up the wrong tree. Those automation curves are yummy! :shock:
I'll jump in on a reply to this that I'm sure others will address. In terms of DAW comparison Reason and Ableton are what Pro Tools and Logic are (in my opinion). They have unique workflows first, and traditional DAW features second. The EQ and delay are something Reason has had for a while so a point for Reason and it's multipe EQ's and The Echo. The keyboard shortcuts for switching views and the user wavetables (in certain synths) is also something Reason beat Ableton in, so another point for Reason there. Export with FX returns has been in Reason. Freeze tracks with sidechain doesn't really compare since Reason has always exported with sidechained devices included if they were routed so in the rack.

Only areas that Ableton has gotten ahead is automation improvements and VST3 support.

As many have stated: no one DAW does everything the best and is ahead of the game all the time. Props to the PHeads team for what they have done.

I am anticipating the next Reason update to deliver something sweet for the DAW since 10.4 was more of a mobile update to Compact. Speaking of which, the blog post addressed the reason older devices weren't added due to "technical issues" so I guess we can be certain from here on out the legacy devices won't be ported to Compact. My guess is the legacy devices won't be seeing updates in Reason DAW and it's only new devices from here on out.
I’m a huge fan of Reason. Let’s be real, Reason doesn’t favorably compare with Live Suite. It’s a different ballpark. You’re naming things like it’s toe to toe or Reason is ahead, and it’s just not so. Reason was so far behind Live that it was dead to me after version 5 until 10 came out when I was giddy like a kid that it had vst support and starting catching up to the modern daw. I still have song files from Reason 1.0 and I’m a huge fan, but they lost their way for so long and they are playing catch-up despite what you said. First it was no audio recording. Then it was no external midi. Then it was no VST support. All these things only to change it later. Certain features like auto tune or a specialty FX, Live can’t touch on a one to one basis, but live has Max and a workflow that is beyond compare and the best in the business. Only bitwig is catching up or trying to beat them in workflow. Cubase or Logic have better midi features by far, and Cubase, Logic, Studio One, Pro Tools, and Reaper handle audio recording MUCH better. But the package of plugins, instruments, warping, automation, FX, grouping/layout, ability to chain racks and save presets, the community, the ability to craft your own plugins and instruments, and the stability of the DAW make it one of the top options for a producer to write a song. Sure, mix or record in another platform, but how efficient you can work in Live to get something down is phenomenal. My biggest gripe is that I almost relegate Reason to sound design or a sketch pad for their great instruments because of how much better I find Live’s workflow. I’m not trying to knock Reason, I’m super happy with Reason 10 because it’s so fun to use, but objectively speaking if I had to choose it would take a mere second to embrace Live Suite. Lucky for me I can keep both and possible add a third like Cubase or S1 for audio and midi features that are better than both Reason or Live. For purely making a song in the box, Is take Reason or Live before having either Cubase or S1.

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Luxuria
Posts: 149
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04 Jun 2019

two shoes wrote:
04 Jun 2019
there seems to be a near universal consensus on this forum that v11 should focus primarily or entirely on gui modernization and a major overhaul of the sequencing and editing workflow. since almost all of their customers not only agree that this is what Reason desperately needs, but agree that prioritization of these things is several versions overdue and a failure to address them in v11 would be a critical miscalculation and possibly the beginning of the end for Propellerhead. the user base couldn't be more crystal clear about what they want from the next version of Reason. so who thinks Propellerhead is gonna listen and get it right? ok, now who thinks they're going to ignore the user base and add a a-list mouth noises (slurpy, chewy, and gargly versions! only $100 each) and a component modeled electric buttwhistle instrument? history tells us not to get our hopes up for v11 just because it's painfully obvious what Reason does and DOES NOT need for the next big update.
Couldn't have said it better.

As a business, whoever has been in charge of product direction has really let their ego get to them.

When a business doesn't meet the needs of it's consumers it should fail. PHeads have created a following that will support them no matter what they release. They are trying too hard to be like Apple at times in my opinion. They market like they are the first to implement a feature. That 10.1 workflow update rubbed me the wrong way in how little they actually added.

No I am not content with just a GUI update for V11, and no one should be if they are paying $129.

I also feel strongly that they release updates that are half baked but never get back to finishing them.

All this on top of my biggest complaint being how little communication they relay with customers. That's why I'm not going to pitch ideas to support if all I get is a standard thank you for your suggestion template. Like really, talk to me like a human. If your fans are spamming questions about certain features on IG or Facebook, take 10 minutes out of your day and post it in your blog about the reality of it being added to reason. We don't know shit! We don't know if they agree with us that the sequencer needs improvement so by addressing it we are assured they probably will update at some point. All that unknown speculation gets channeled to forums like this where we talk in circles until they do say something.

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Luxuria
Posts: 149
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04 Jun 2019

2chris wrote:
04 Jun 2019
Luxuria wrote:
28 May 2019


I'll jump in on a reply to this that I'm sure others will address.
I’m a huge fan of Reason. Let’s be real, Reason doesn’t favorably compare with Live Suite. It’s a different ballpark. You’re naming things like it’s toe to toe or Reason is ahead, and it’s just not so. I still have song files from Reason 1.0 and I’m a huge fan, but they lost their way for so long and they are playing catch-up despite what you said. But the package of plugins, instruments, warping, automation, FX, grouping/layout, ability to chain racks and save presets, the community, the ability to craft your own plugins and instruments, and the stability of the DAW make it one of the top options for a producer to write a song. Sure, mix or record in another platform, but how efficient you can work in Live to get something down is phenomenal. My biggest gripe is that I almost relegate Reason to sound design or a sketch pad for their great instruments because of how much better I find Live’s workflow. I’m not trying to knock Reason, I’m super happy with Reason 10 because it’s so fun to use, but objectively speaking if I had to choose it would take a mere second to embrace Live Suite.
Oh I completely agree with you. I make critical comments about Reason all the time. I just wanted to treat the new things Ableton added as a toe for toe to what Reason has to show the different priority paths devs take when updating their DAW's.

Ive only briefy played with Live as well as Max DSP on it's own. Its a bigger beast then Reason. Ableton found their niche workflow and improved continually at making it better and better. I wish Reason would have done the same with the rack but as another user stated, even PHeads seem to neglect their bread and butter by listening to newbies who think modular CV thought process is complicated. The lack of an update to combinator or the rack not seeing an update to show all moving knobs controlled by LFO's visually.

I'm glad version 10 brought you back to enjoying Reason. I'm hoping it does so for me so I can feel justified in spending the upgrade from 8.3 to 11.

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Oquasec
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Joined: 05 Mar 2017

04 Jun 2019

I feel like propellerhead should focus on what makes Reason Reason, cuz right now it looks like a good alternative to (Reaktor)
Not FL Studio. (That's a good thing)
If you want a different workflow or different features you gotta rewire or migrate.
---
However Propellerhead should decide what direction Reason should go next.
Should it eclipse Reaktor or do more things to the bottom half of Reason to make it more like a traditional daw in the sequencer window?
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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Luxuria
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05 Jun 2019

Oquasec wrote:
04 Jun 2019

Should it eclipse Reaktor or do more things to the bottom half of Reason to make it more like a traditional daw in the sequencer window?
Why not both?

If this was a game of pick 2:
-sequencer update
-rack update
-mixer update

I probably would have to think about it for a second.

If you replace any one of those with
-compact update.
I'd ditch compact instantly.

Mobile music software isn't for me. Even if I could try it, which I can't because I'm on Android, I'd feel disapointed in downgrading from a whole arsenal of devices, effects and even the sequencer as simple as it is for 2 watered down synths and a drum machine. And for what? Convenience? No thanks.

Branching out into new markets and splitting the total payroll for a mobile team so that PHeads can make a quick buck off kids with in app purchases that resemble pay walls isn't what any other DAW is doing.

Mobile and DAW integration is great for using phones and tablets as midi controllers like Abletons touchAble and Conductr. Id use my phone if an app let me control 8 or so remote assigned knobs or faders. Hell even add a 5-10 dollar price tag on it. Still beats buying a 50+ dollar akai midi controller.

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Oquasec
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05 Jun 2019

So far I think the top half of Reason is some of the best stuff I've seen in a daw.
The bottom half can be replaced with rewire so I'm ok on that front tbh.
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Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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Creativemind
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Location: Stoke-On-Trent, England, UK

05 Jun 2019

Hopefully Mattius or somebody else will read this. Please release a 10.5 focussed purely on midi editing.

My main wants would be:-

1) See what Midi Note you're pressing on your midi controller
2) Mute / Unmute notes
3).Midi Chase
4) Note displays + All keys on midi editor piano (toggle on/ off)
5) Colouring notes
6) Slice By Grid
7) Remember Last Note Length
8) Chord Painting or type a chord in
9) Keyboard Shortcut to Send a note / noted up./ Down and Octave / beginning / end of a clip
10) Toggle on / off button for trigger notes while editing (and then take that preference out the preferences)
11) Remove the arrows on the notes that clutter up the midi editor and get in the way of you moving notes until the mouse cursor is a certain distance of either end of the note you want to lengthen / shorten
12) In the preferences add a check box to make all notes in a clip shorten if you shorten a clip
13) Keyboard Shortcut to shorten notes that extend beyond the clip if you have my previous preference suggestion turned off
14) Join notes
15) Paste a row of notes half the length or the full length of the clip according to the snap setting
16) Unselect all
17) Holding right mouse button down changes cursor to a new scrub / scrubber / scrub out tool that allows quick scrubbing / scribble deletion of notes
18) Dump to midi (Will dump the last thing you played on your midi controller or on screen piano keys whilst the song was playing but not recording into the midi editor.

There is another few but those are my main wants. Anything else is a bonus.
:reason:

Reason Studio's 11.3 / Cockos Reaper 6.82 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Orion 8.6
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Oquasec
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Joined: 05 Mar 2017

05 Jun 2019

Being able to see what note was pressed, wait for midi, There's a lot of things they can add.
But what should Reason get now that we have over 8 new built in modules?
I think they should update the sequencer design and make the gridlines thicker.
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

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