How is AMD Ryzen performing on 10.3?

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Retake
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Joined: 08 May 2018

Post 15 May 2019

I plan on building a new PC later this year to replace my old Intel i7 3770k setup. I intend on switching camps and run a new AMD Ryzen CPU. I'm just wondering how these have been performing on the latest version of Reason 10.3.

Thanks!

reggie1979
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Post 15 May 2019

Very curious myself. What I've heard is that Ryzen doesn't perform super good at lower buffers/ASIO. That would be a deal-breaker for me as I only work at 64 buffer.

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antic604
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Post 16 May 2019

For a DAW - any DAW - single-threaded performance is most important, even though they'll use all the cores you throw at them theoretically. In short, the more cores you have, the lower their individual clock and thus bigger chance for any of them to be choked by a single long / heavy chain of devices that cannot be broken down into parallel jobs. This is especially valid for Reason, where we tend to create complex, elaborate, interweaving and cross-dependant setups rarely seen in "linear" DAWs like Cubase, Logic or Studio One... As an analogy, it's better to move house with 2 trucks than 10 hatchbacks, even though - technically - they might have the same cubic space available in total.

So I'd say unless for some reason you're dead set for AMD, I'd go for an Intel CPU like i7-8700k or one of the newer ones if your budget allows. Intels will typically have better single-threaded performance, even though the processor as a whole (for multi-threaded benchmarks) might be weaker - for example:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/In ... 3335vs3332
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djadalaide
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Post 16 May 2019

It works well on my Ryzen 1700 laptop, its the equivalent of an intel 5960x (i have 2 desktops with this chip too).

If you have really good cooling you can run the 1700 even faster using the ryzen master software.

Of course, as antic604 says is true..

As a power user of reason what i have is enough for me.

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antic604
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Post 16 May 2019

djadalaide wrote:
16 May 2019
Of course, as antic604 says is true..
Perhaps I should make it clearer that I'm not saying AMD processors will be bad or won't work well in Reason. It's just that Intels are a safer choice, IMO :)
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
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Noplan
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Post 16 May 2019

1600 here and it works. I have not reached any limit yet for my purposes. However, Intel should be better.

Retake
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Post 16 May 2019

antic604 wrote:
16 May 2019
Perhaps I should make it clearer that I'm not saying AMD processors will be bad or won't work well in Reason. It's just that Intels are a safer choice, IMO :)
Intel has been the safer choice from a raw performance perspective since the code 2 duo. It's the reason I went with the 3770k six+ years ago. At the time AMD couldn't compete. It wasn't even a contest, it was a joke.

Today things are different. Current AMD Ryzen CPUs are "almost" on par with Intel. In about two weeks AMD will be announcing their new CPU product line and I'll be watching this launch like a hawk. The rumours suggest higher clock speeds, higher IPC, and up to 16 cores, 32 threads in the consumer variants. I can't see myself getting a 16 core, but an 8 or 12 core would be nice.

The bottom line is my PC is not dedicated to Reason. But if Ryzen doesn't play nice with Reason, I need to know. It may impact my decision.

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antic604
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Post 16 May 2019

Retake wrote:
16 May 2019
antic604 wrote:
16 May 2019
Perhaps I should make it clearer that I'm not saying AMD processors will be bad or won't work well in Reason. It's just that Intels are a safer choice, IMO :)
Intel has been the safer choice from a raw performance perspective since the code 2 duo. It's the reason I went with the 3770k six+ years ago. At the time AMD couldn't compete. It wasn't even a contest, it was a joke.

Today things are different. Current AMD Ryzen CPUs are "almost" on par with Intel. In about two weeks AMD will be announcing their new CPU product line and I'll be watching this launch like a hawk. The rumours suggest higher clock speeds, higher IPC, and up to 16 cores, 32 threads in the consumer variants. I can't see myself getting a 16 core, but an 8 or 12 core would be nice.

The bottom line is my PC is not dedicated to Reason. But if Ryzen doesn't play nice with Reason, I need to know. It may impact my decision.
And how do you expect us to know how Reason plays with CPUs to be announced in 2 weeks? ;)

The problem is, there might be some architectural changes Reason isn't ready for and there's no way of knowing. Intel, just due to sheer number of users, will be a priority still for few years to come to ensure compatibility, so that's why I'm recommending it.
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Retake
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Post 16 May 2019

antic604 wrote:
16 May 2019
And how do you expect us to know how Reason plays with CPUs to be announced in 2 weeks? ;)
LOL... true. It's technically the same CPU as the previous generation with improvements. What I'm interested in are how things changed with 10.3. My 3770k was struggling more and more with each release of Reason. 10.3 seems to have given my CPU new life.

I want to know if 10.3 had any similar impact on AMD users. Did it get better, no change, or get worse?

djadalaide
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Post 17 May 2019

Things got way better on AMD as well.

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michal22
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Post 17 May 2019

These are very good processors, but you have to choose a dedicated RAM for them. Some memories have problems with Ryzen. For example, see this (dedicated memory):

https://www.gskill.com/en/press/view/g- ... 0-platform

The Ryzen processors work much better if the RAM memory is highly clocked.
Also remember about the good motherboard on the new chipset. Then it should go without problems.
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Retake
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Joined: 08 May 2018

Post 17 May 2019

djadalaide wrote:
17 May 2019
Things got way better on AMD as well.
Thanks for the reply. Are you currently using Ryzen? What sort of buffer size are you able to achieve without issues?

Retake
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Joined: 08 May 2018

Post 17 May 2019

michal22 wrote:
17 May 2019
The Ryzen processors work much better if the RAM memory is highly clocked.
Also remember about the good motherboard on the new chipset. Then it should go without problems.
I've been hearing rumours that 4000 Mhz DDR4 will be supported on 3rd gen Ryzen, and I've even seen some hints suggesting that 5000 Mhz could be in the cards at the extreme levels.

seqoi
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Post 17 May 2019

Be warned if someone try to sell you older Intel CPU. It is suggested that you disable HT. Which will cripple performance up to 40% ?!!!?!?! Any Intel CPU from 2008 to this day. Only two

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel ... 39333.html - this MDS flaw is only three days old. It's not like Spectre it's even way worse. Apple just released they own article on how to disable HT on Mac computers but they reported users will loose up to 40% of performance.

AFAIK only exception of the Whiskey Lake (ULT refresh), Whiskey Lake (desktop) which are immune.

I am not starting a flame war but https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-m ... 39367.html - seems to be great thing on AMD field - for all AMD users.

Personally i am using Intel for the last 13 years but my next computer (this summer) is Ryzen 3000++ new series. I saw Ryzen second generation in action and it's amazing for Reason.

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EnochLight
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Post 17 May 2019

It was mentioned earlier in this thread that working at low audio sample buffers on Ryzen doesn't perform as well as Intel. That's not to say you can't use Ryzen at low audio sample buffers - it's just that Intel will allow you to run more plugins at that same audio sample buffer. This was evident in the first gen Ryzen, the second gen Ryzen, as well as all Threadrippers. I have no idea if AMD was able to address this in the new upcoming chips, but it would be nice if they could.
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Retake
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Joined: 08 May 2018

Post 17 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
17 May 2019
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that working at low audio sample buffers on Ryzen doesn't perform as well as Intel. That's not to say you can't use Ryzen at low audio sample buffers - it's just that Intel will allow you to run more plugins at that same audio sample buffer. This was evident in the first gen Ryzen, the second gen Ryzen, as well as all Threadrippers. I have no idea if AMD was able to address this in the new upcoming chips, but it would be nice if they could.
I'm just trying to figure out how well 10.3 is playing with Ryzen. I tried to search the forum and didn't find anything recent.

I assemble all my PCs from scratch, and I always do deep research when selecting components. The end result is always a rock solid system that handles anything I throw at it. I don't like to assume or guess. I realise that sounds somewhat contradictory considering that the 3rd gen Ryzen isn't out yet, but trust me, there is a method to my madness. ;)

reggie1979
Posts: 637
Joined: 11 Apr 2019

Post 17 May 2019

Retake wrote:
17 May 2019
EnochLight wrote:
17 May 2019
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that working at low audio sample buffers on Ryzen doesn't perform as well as Intel. That's not to say you can't use Ryzen at low audio sample buffers - it's just that Intel will allow you to run more plugins at that same audio sample buffer. This was evident in the first gen Ryzen, the second gen Ryzen, as well as all Threadrippers. I have no idea if AMD was able to address this in the new upcoming chips, but it would be nice if they could.
I'm just trying to figure out how well 10.3 is playing with Ryzen. I tried to search the forum and didn't find anything recent.

I assemble all my PCs from scratch, and I always do deep research when selecting components. The end result is always a rock solid system that handles anything I throw at it. I don't like to assume or guess. I realise that sounds somewhat contradictory considering that the 3rd gen Ryzen isn't out yet, but trust me, there is a method to my madness. ;)
I have to admit, I really don't know what the story is but it's like a little alarm in my head. Currently, all I have is a 4770k and I'd LOVE to upgrade to Ryzen. But I have no issues running at a 64 buffer right now and I don't want to invest w/o really knowing REAL WORLD, if that makes sense.

sdst
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Joined: 14 Jun 2015

Post 18 May 2019

I have 10 years using AMD and never look back, Reason 10 work without problem

Vyckeil
Posts: 111
Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Location: Canada

Post 18 May 2019

seqoi wrote:
17 May 2019
Be warned if someone try to sell you older Intel CPU. It is suggested that you disable HT. Which will cripple performance up to 40% ?!!!?!?! Any Intel CPU from 2008 to this day. Only two

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel ... 39333.html - this MDS flaw is only three days old. It's not like Spectre it's even way worse. Apple just released they own article on how to disable HT on Mac computers but they reported users will loose up to 40% of performance.

AFAIK only exception of the Whiskey Lake (ULT refresh), Whiskey Lake (desktop) which are immune.

I am not starting a flame war but https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-m ... 39367.html - seems to be great thing on AMD field - for all AMD users.

Personally i am using Intel for the last 13 years but my next computer (this summer) is Ryzen 3000++ new series. I saw Ryzen second generation in action and it's amazing for Reason.
People should pay attention to this news carefully! Although I agree with the general consensus that Intel is the better choice for DAW work, don't ignore the multiple Intel security flaws they've had for a couple of years. Spectre and Meltdown for a couple of years ago, and now ZombieLoad, decrease Intel's single-threaded performance by patching them. Don't forget that Reason does support multi-core and multi-thread, so purchasing a Ryzen processor with a lot of cores that can clock at high frequencies will mostly match Intel's offerings in the same price bracket. The problem with Ryzen is its latency, the way the architecture is built causes lower performance for low buffer settings and higher DSP, and Intel is still the safer choice. If you up the buffer and don't mind a bit of latency when producing, then the performance hiccup mostly disappears and Ryzen is still a very good choice. A couple of people in this forum do confirm that.

The Ryzen latency problem won't go away, unfortunately. With Zen 2 architecture coming out with the 3rd generation Ryzen CPUs, instead of having inter-CCX (chiplets that contain the core complexes) latency through Infinity Fabric (the interconnect that allows the CCX to communicate), the latency will probably also come from the I/O chip as well. It's best to wait for benchmarks to arrive before making your decision. Although, there will be a 16 core option from Ryzen 3rd gen with SMT (multi-threading), providing 32 logic cores. That's a lot of CPU horsepower for a desktop CPU! You could buy a server CPU to have a lot of cores, but those are really not optimized the same way and suffer a lot for real-time processing applications such as music production, and I actively discourage people from buying server CPUs for this use.

With all that said, I'm upgrading to a Ryzen CPU when the budget allows. The price/performance ratio of Ryzen CPUs are unmatched at the moment, and unless you're building a computer exclusively for music production and gaming, Intel is very poor value at current prices. I'd rather have more cores at a lower price than a more optimized CPU at a higher price. Most of my Reason-related performance problems come from adding too much REs in a song, and not latency, which more cores can solve with a bit of added latency and higher buffer rates.

zoidkirb
Posts: 120
Joined: 18 Nov 2018

Post 18 May 2019

Personally I'm waiting for AMD to come out with their Zen 2 series. A complete new generation that promises high core count, fast clock speed AND low power draw. I can afford to wait at least this year out though, as my i7 2700k has been given a new lease on life with Reason 10.3

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