Today's "Why Can't I?" Moment

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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boingy
Posts: 425
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 13 May 2019

Sometimes little things annoy me.

Oi! Propellerhead dudes!

Why can't I drag an audio clip from the Reason sequencer and drop it on to (say) an NN19 sampler in the rack?
I can drag an audio file from the hard disk and drop it onto NN19
I can drag an audio clip from Cakewalk and drop it onto NN19.
When I drag from the sequencer the cursor changes and it know it's an audio clip so, yeah, why can't it just do it?

To add insult to injury Reason seems to drop the audio clip into some other part of the sequencer window that you can't even see rather than just ping it back to its original location after the failed drop.

It's not the end of the world but neither should it be a difficult thing to implement.

/gripe

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Loque
Posts: 5644
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 13 May 2019

Completely agree. I need to go the way via bouncing to sample....really...

From dev POV, i always hated to implement Drag&Drop...
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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plaamook
Posts: 941
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: probably underwater

Post 13 May 2019

I too have had that moment

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MattiasHG
Posts: 256
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2019

boingy wrote:
13 May 2019
Sometimes little things annoy me.

Oi! Propellerhead dudes!

Why can't I drag an audio clip from the Reason sequencer and drop it on to (say) an NN19 sampler in the rack?
I can drag an audio file from the hard disk and drop it onto NN19
I can drag an audio clip from Cakewalk and drop it onto NN19.
When I drag from the sequencer the cursor changes and it know it's an audio clip so, yeah, why can't it just do it?

To add insult to injury Reason seems to drop the audio clip into some other part of the sequencer window that you can't even see rather than just ping it back to its original location after the failed drop.

It's not the end of the world but neither should it be a difficult thing to implement.

/gripe
It might be more difficult than you think to do naturally at least. :)

Since dragging a clip in the sequencer also moves it across tracks, scrolls the sequencer window and so on—how will you get it to go over the divider between sequencer and rack? Could maybe work with a modifier key, but that's not great.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! Definitely something I, too, want at some point.

Tweak
Posts: 38
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2019

I appreciate there will be underlying technicalities that make this difficult, such as allowing all REs to interact with dropped objects in different parts of their UI. From a UX point of view is it not possible to simply do the following:

If the clip crosses the line between the sequencer and rack, have it return it its original position in the sequencer (the point from which it was originally dragged), and show a ghost of the clip being dragged with a "+" next to it to indicate it is being copied to the new location on a rack device.

I can't think of many cases where a user would want a different behaviour, for example, actually moving the clip away from the sequencer and permanently into a rack device. If a clone of the clip is used, then really the only down side I see is the need to delete the clip in the sequencer if you didn't want to retain it there.

Users don't necessarily see an application as different sections with different contexts, although we as programmers know things differently, but its good to retain that consistency of philosophy(drag and drop) across as much of the interface as is possible. I know I'd use this feature :)

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Heigen5
Posts: 498
Joined: 25 Sep 2018
Location: Finland / Suomi

Post 14 May 2019

I've had this moment too for few times.

But hey, sometimes I'm visioning some theories, how the devs could do stuff and all i'm saying here to the Props is, that sure, everything sounds easy when we suggest stuff and in a practice it's not always the case, but: I could imagine that sometimes my theories may make some sense too.

Could it sometimes be possible to make a "command-chain" for some of the features? I.E. you'd glue 3-4 steps that already are there as features and command them to be done in a chain, as example? As example, you'd bounce the audio clip, you'd call it into the device from the disk like you'd import audio, etc etc??

Nerdhat OFF/

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craven
Posts: 624
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2019

I still have this moment of "Why can't I interact with a RE without accidentally dragging it?"
You also see this in videos of other users and it's been mentioned time over time.

One gets used to it, but sometimes it is just annoying - especially when working on smaller screens. YMMV
:ugeek:

RobBarnett
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 14 May 2019

craven wrote:
14 May 2019
I still have this moment of "Why can't I interact with a RE without accidentally dragging it?"
You also see this in videos of other users and it's been mentioned time over time.

One gets used to it, but sometimes it is just annoying - especially when working on smaller screens. YMMV
This bugs me too. I did suggest a while back that they could restrict dragging to certain areas of a Device - such at the brackets which 'hold' the device in the rack?

RobBarnett
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 14 May 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
14 May 2019
boingy wrote:
13 May 2019
Sometimes little things annoy me.

Oi! Propellerhead dudes!

Why can't I drag an audio clip from the Reason sequencer and drop it on to (say) an NN19 sampler in the rack?
I can drag an audio file from the hard disk and drop it onto NN19
I can drag an audio clip from Cakewalk and drop it onto NN19.
When I drag from the sequencer the cursor changes and it know it's an audio clip so, yeah, why can't it just do it?

To add insult to injury Reason seems to drop the audio clip into some other part of the sequencer window that you can't even see rather than just ping it back to its original location after the failed drop.

It's not the end of the world but neither should it be a difficult thing to implement.

/gripe
It might be more difficult than you think to do naturally at least. :)

Since dragging a clip in the sequencer also moves it across tracks, scrolls the sequencer window and so on—how will you get it to go over the divider between sequencer and rack? Could maybe work with a modifier key, but that's not great.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! Definitely something I, too, want at some point.
How about Right click, 'copy clip to........' drop down list of all current devices in the rack which have sample loading capability ?

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craven
Posts: 624
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2019

RobBarnett wrote:
14 May 2019
craven wrote:
14 May 2019
I still have this moment of "Why can't I interact with a RE without accidentally dragging it?"
You also see this in videos of other users and it's been mentioned time over time.

One gets used to it, but sometimes it is just annoying - especially when working on smaller screens. YMMV
This bugs me too. I did suggest a while back that they could restrict dragging to certain areas of a Device - such at the brackets which 'hold' the device in the rack?
I thought of that suggestion but did not remember who brought it up. I concur with that idea.
:ugeek:

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ScuzzyEye
Posts: 1305
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 14 May 2019

craven wrote:
14 May 2019
RobBarnett wrote:
14 May 2019


This bugs me too. I did suggest a while back that they could restrict dragging to certain areas of a Device - such at the brackets which 'hold' the device in the rack?
I thought of that suggestion but did not remember who brought it up. I concur with that idea.
That's how Reason worked back in like versions 1 and 2. After that it was changed to be how it is now, where any non-widget space can be used to drag a device.

User avatar
boingy
Posts: 425
Joined: 01 Feb 2019

Post 14 May 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
14 May 2019
boingy wrote:
13 May 2019
Sometimes little things annoy me.

Oi! Propellerhead dudes!

Why can't I drag an audio clip from the Reason sequencer and drop it on to (say) an NN19 sampler in the rack?
I can drag an audio file from the hard disk and drop it onto NN19
I can drag an audio clip from Cakewalk and drop it onto NN19.
When I drag from the sequencer the cursor changes and it know it's an audio clip so, yeah, why can't it just do it?

To add insult to injury Reason seems to drop the audio clip into some other part of the sequencer window that you can't even see rather than just ping it back to its original location after the failed drop.

It's not the end of the world but neither should it be a difficult thing to implement.

/gripe
It might be more difficult than you think to do naturally at least. :)

Since dragging a clip in the sequencer also moves it across tracks, scrolls the sequencer window and so on—how will you get it to go over the divider between sequencer and rack? Could maybe work with a modifier key, but that's not great.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! Definitely something I, too, want at some point.
Just for clarity my rack window is detached and on a second monitor, and yes, speaking as someone who recently left the software industry after 30 odd years I realise that some things are not as easy as you might think.

However, let's return to Cakewalk. If you drag an audio clip close to the edge of the track view it scrolls along so you can position the clip elsewhere in the track BUT ONLY IF YOU PAUSE BRIEFLY OR SLOW DOWN IN THAT REGION. If you carry on dragging smoothly the clip "escapes" the bounds of the track window and becomes a dangling WAV file ready to be dropped anywhere. And I've just learned that you can drag and drop onto a folder or the desktop and Cakewalk will mix down the clip on the fly as it deposits it, based, presumably, on a project setting somewhere in all those menus.

So that's how I would implement it. If the dragging in that "border zone" is sufficiently slow or ponderous then scroll, otherwise set the clip free!

It's not a biggie but I was really hoping someone would point out a really obvious and simple workaround for it rather than me having to bounce the clip to disk and then drag it back in again.

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plaamook
Posts: 941
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: probably underwater

Post 15 May 2019

ScuzzyEye wrote:
14 May 2019
craven wrote:
14 May 2019


I thought of that suggestion but did not remember who brought it up. I concur with that idea.
That's how Reason worked back in like versions 1 and 2. After that it was changed to be how it is now, where any non-widget space can be used to drag a device.
Yeah and everyone wanted it changed to how it is now. Now they want it changed back!
I never wanred it changed. I liked it the old way. Maybe otional in settings?
Or if we just scream loud enough...

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stratatonic
Posts: 992
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: CANADA

Post 03 Jun 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
14 May 2019
boingy wrote:
13 May 2019


Oi! Propellerhead dudes!

Why can't I drag an audio clip from the Reason sequencer and drop it on to (say) an NN19 sampler in the rack?

Could maybe work with a modifier key, but that's not great.
Why is making it work with a modifier key not great?

User avatar
reddust
Posts: 381
Joined: 07 May 2018

Post 04 Jun 2019

My most common "Why can't I?" moment in Reason is every time I want to use a single instance of a VST instrument for different tracks so I can apply custom settings and effects to each track without having to load the same instrument x-times

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LudvigC
Posts: 85
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 04 Jun 2019

stratatonic wrote:
03 Jun 2019
MattiasHG wrote:
14 May 2019



Could maybe work with a modifier key, but that's not great.
Why is making it work with a modifier key not great?
Because

* all single modifier keys are already used (copy-drag, momentary switch tool, multi-select) so it would have to be a combination of modifier keys which is typically not so straightforward and easy to remember/use
* it's generally harder to learn using a modifier key-operation, and harder to show in tutorials etc.

cheers / LudvigC

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ljekio
Posts: 646
Joined: 21 Jan 2015

Post 04 Jun 2019

Why Can't I manually set tempo data for any audio clip?

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stratatonic
Posts: 992
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: CANADA

Post 10 Jun 2019

LudvigC wrote:
04 Jun 2019
stratatonic wrote:
03 Jun 2019


Why is making it work with a modifier key not great?
Because

* all single modifier keys are already used (copy-drag, momentary switch tool, multi-select) so it would have to be a combination of modifier keys which is typically not so straightforward and easy to remember/use
* it's generally harder to learn using a modifier key-operation, and harder to show in tutorials etc.

cheers / LudvigC
Thanks for replying. But much software out there have combo modifier keys.
We used to right click to get around. And then you added drag and drop functionality to the program, getting users to dragndrop. Seems like it should have been baked into that release - if not, then the next step in the evolution...

two shoes
Posts: 241
Joined: 13 Jul 2018

Post 11 Jun 2019

craven wrote:
14 May 2019
I still have this moment of "Why can't I interact with a RE without accidentally dragging it?"
You also see this in videos of other users and it's been mentioned time over time.

One gets used to it, but sometimes it is just annoying - especially when working on smaller screens. YMMV
THIS! This is so damn annoying I've almost thrown my laptop out the window a few times when I tried to move a (tiny, itsee bitsy...) control only to move the entire combinator to another rack column that my cursor never went anywhere near. It's one of those, "You've been developing this application using this exact interface for nearly twenty years and you haven't figured this out yet? Really?" But Mattias just told us they also find dragging and dropping audio clips between different parts of the application difficult to implement too while every other audio application in existence, many of them developed by single, non-professional coders has had it aced for years now. Sometimes I wonder if anyone at Propellerhead has ever opened another daw in their life.

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tt_lab
Posts: 275
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 11 Jun 2019

Why leave it at audio clips only? I want to write some MIDI in europa and drag it to any sample loading device and let's Reason convert it to audio while I dragndrop it.

RobBarnett
Posts: 11
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 12 Jun 2019

tt_lab wrote:
11 Jun 2019
Why leave it at audio clips only? I want to write some MIDI in europa and drag it to any sample loading device and let's Reason convert it to audio while I dragndrop it.
My suggestion for audio clips would work for MIDI also - right click the midi (or audio) and bounce clip to ........drop down list of all Devices in the current song which have sample/audio loading capability

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1270
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

Post 13 Jun 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
14 May 2019
boingy wrote:
13 May 2019
Sometimes little things annoy me.

Oi! Propellerhead dudes!

Why can't I drag an audio clip from the Reason sequencer and drop it on to (say) an NN19 sampler in the rack?
I can drag an audio file from the hard disk and drop it onto NN19
I can drag an audio clip from Cakewalk and drop it onto NN19.
When I drag from the sequencer the cursor changes and it know it's an audio clip so, yeah, why can't it just do it?

To add insult to injury Reason seems to drop the audio clip into some other part of the sequencer window that you can't even see rather than just ping it back to its original location after the failed drop.

It's not the end of the world but neither should it be a difficult thing to implement.

/gripe
It might be more difficult than you think to do naturally at least. :)

Since dragging a clip in the sequencer also moves it across tracks, scrolls the sequencer window and so on—how will you get it to go over the divider between sequencer and rack? Could maybe work with a modifier key, but that's not great.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback! Definitely something I, too, want at some point.

I would like to ask Matthias why can’t i achieve actual resynthisis in parsec Or Europa.

I think it would be awesome to see something that takes a sample and recreates it using sine waves. Parsecs few waveforms gives a nice taste but I’m wondering if that’s ever come across the PH development desk. Harmor is one synth that I want to get to achieve these tasks in the meanwhile. Seamlessr has some awesome examples of resynthisis. Spectra does resynthisis but not to the full extent. I’m good with what ever happens, because if the RE world doesn’t cover it the vst world will. I’m glad to be in age of choice for reason
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

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stratatonic
Posts: 992
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: CANADA

Post 17 Jun 2019

RobBarnett wrote:
12 Jun 2019
tt_lab wrote:
11 Jun 2019
Why leave it at audio clips only? I want to write some MIDI in europa and drag it to any sample loading device and let's Reason convert it to audio while I dragndrop it.
My suggestion for audio clips would work for MIDI also - right click the midi (or audio) and bounce clip to ........drop down list of all Devices in the current song which have sample/audio loading capability
Sounds good, but not just the Devices in current song, but any capable Device. Oh Ludwig....! :)

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