Good video, some interesting points

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miscend
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Post 10 May 2019

If you have an orchestral template with 100+ tracks like Junkie XL or Hans Zimmer. The tracks folders and groups feature will be a blessing. The ability to show or hide certain tracks in Cubase is also cool.

Reason needs a few more tools for organising your projects better as the track counts pile up. That would be cool for those doing orchestration.

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Post 10 May 2019

Ahornberg wrote:
10 May 2019
He talked a lot about wasting time by using Reason but he actually wasted a lot of time just by making this video ... think about how much music he could have produced at this time!

He also says he produces 8 songs in a month, that's only 2 songs a week. I don't think he's a professional producer and makes a living out of music.
I didn’t watch the video. But it sounds like he was using the wrong tool for the job which amounts to user error. For example if I was recording bands full time and working strictly analogue no plugin processing, I wouldn’t use Ableton, I would use something a bit more appropriate like Pro Tools. All Daws have strengths and weaknesses.

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gdm41
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Post 11 May 2019

He had some valid points. The mp3 export would be a nice comfort function. And I 100% agree on the solo/muting thing, i´ve using reason since years, and in almost every session i have problems with it. Maybe I dont understand the system behind it but its not intuitive for me. But as mentioned earlier, reason is an audio playground and this guy looking for super efficient industry daw, to make music like a robot.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 13 May 2019

gdm41 wrote:
11 May 2019
He had some valid points. The mp3 export would be a nice comfort function. And I 100% agree on the solo/muting thing, i´ve using reason since years, and in almost every session i have problems with it. Maybe I dont understand the system behind it but its not intuitive for me. But as mentioned earlier, reason is an audio playground and this guy looking for super efficient industry daw, to make music like a robot.
Well this is just Me, but I am now in full support an mp3 of an mp3 of an mp3 from ... well I think U get it. I tried to make a point of "Bandwidth / Space" vs MP3 these days. I thought at one point there was quality involved?

Props, please provide one of some daily comforts like the :Junk food bouncing option. And to tame it down a notch, lets put some dunkin donuts codecs on it.

"Hey Buddy, I'm gonna send you over this 16 bit/ 44.1 wav file to see what Ya think about the bands demo. Response: "Naw Brah I need still need MP3. 128 to 256 is pure pleasure"

Pardon Me, I've had a few dranks tonight, but, yeah.... Is MP3 gonna outlive the cockroaches?? Things that make ya go Hmmm...

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sonicbyte
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Post 13 May 2019

Well I just copy and paste my comment on his video on YouTube:

"I disagree with you in most of your issues, of course you have the right to use whatever DAW you like, but not all you say about Reason is true.
You can re-align mixer channels from the sequencer using "Sort selected device groups", you can rearrange songs completely with "Blocks", you can get sync video with ReasonSync, vidplayvst and other products (agree is other software to get but hey is the same reason you bought plugins, is because no DAW is complete)... the one thing I miss is to get versions of your mixes or arrangements as you comment , but most of the issues are personal taste IMHO than real issues for pro work.
All DAWs have pros and cons. I Use reason professionally for stock music libraries for years like you do, even for scoring film music and I think is unfair you label Reason as a "non-professional" DAW or not suitable for "pro work".
Just unfair for such great software."

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Creativemind
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Post 13 May 2019

Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
10 May 2019
I understand time is money of course, but why would they want a downgraded version of said piece
Because many people say that clients / companies want demo's in mp3 format and there's no reason (excuse the pun) to not have this as a feature whether you think it's a good idea or not. Just don't use it if you don't want it and surely it wouldn't take Propellerhead more than an hour or two to program that in as an export option.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.3 / Cockus Reaper 5.978 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Creativemind
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Post 13 May 2019

Ahornberg wrote:
10 May 2019
He talked a lot about wasting time by using Reason but he actually wasted a lot of time just by making this video ... think about how much music he could have produced at this time!

He also says he produces 8 songs in a month, that's only 2 songs a week. I don't think he's a professional producer and makes a living out of music.
Well if he's fully finishing, mixing and mastering professionally 2 songs a week, that's pretty good going. Testing it on different playback systems (in your car, on a cheap hi-fi, computer, phone and your daw / studio alone can take ages) as you may then go to your car and play it and think, the bass isn't cutting though enough, so go back to the studio or whatever and retweak stuff. Then back again etc etc, getting that balance on all systems isn't easy sometimes, that could take a day up in itself really considering you need breaks as well.
Last edited by Creativemind on 13 May 2019, edited 2 times in total.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.3 / Cockus Reaper 5.978 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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reddust
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Post 13 May 2019

Loque wrote:
10 May 2019
I think the point for video support is more to "compose" to the scenes and movie parts. For just a video to your music, you do not really need this - or did anybody seen a musician first creating it's music video and than the music?
That makes sense, I guess for people working on movie soundtracks, sound design or game design it can be a really necessary feature, didn't think about that :)

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 13 May 2019

Anways, that was my whole 2 cents on the MP3 format. I've said my piece and I'll try not to bring it up again. I hear ya Creativemind.

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Post 13 May 2019

sonicbyte wrote:
13 May 2019
Well I just copy and paste my comment on his video on YouTube:

"I disagree with you in most of your issues, of course you have the right to use whatever DAW you like, but not all you say about Reason is true.
You can re-align mixer channels from the sequencer using "Sort selected device groups
Yeah but "Sort Selected Device Groups" only works when you select tracks in the sequencer only doesn't it and not on the fly (so you have to keep selecting the tracks and then selecting Sort Selected Device Groups which again takes time) which I think is what he's suggesting and Sort Selected Device Groups will only sync the order won't it? muting and solo'ing in all 3 windows won't be sync'ed. I get what he's saying, sync all 3 windows in regard to Order, Labelling, Colouring, Muting and Solo'ing on the fly. Would save so much time searching for stuff but I do get that the mix channels in the Rack and Mixer are connected and the Sequencer is separate and that's how it works but the ability to sync all 3 windows would be welcomed by me for one, and both Browsers too. If you don't need it, fine, turn it off in the preferences (or would a simple toggle it on / off on the transport be better?) and then it'll still work the way it does now.
Last edited by Creativemind on 13 May 2019, edited 3 times in total.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.3 / Cockus Reaper 5.978 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Creativemind
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Post 13 May 2019

Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
13 May 2019
Anways, that was my whole 2 cents on the MP3 format. I've said my piece and I'll try not to bring it up again. I hear ya Creativemind.
No worries. :)
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.3 / Cockus Reaper 5.978 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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Djstarski
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Post 13 May 2019

Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019
sonicbyte wrote:
13 May 2019
Well I just copy and paste my comment on his video on YouTube:

"
You can re-align mixer channels from the sequencer using "Sort selected device groups
Yeah but "Sort Selected Device Groups" only works when you select tracks in the sequencer only doesn't it.
You can select all tracks in the sequencers , rack or mixer and " Sort Selected Device Groups" . But it would be smoother when you move a channel in one it will move in the other two . No big deal though .

All this talk about workflow in Reason . All i have to think about is using hardware back in the day and Reason does not seem that bad at all .

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ScuzzyEye
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Post 13 May 2019

Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019
I think is what he's suggesting and Sort Selected Device Groups will only sync the order won't it? muting and solo'ing in all 3 windows won't be sync'ed. I get what he's saying, sync all 3 windows in regard to Order, Labelling, Colouring, Muting and Solo'ing on the fly.
This is another of those "that's not how Reason works." There's no guarenteed 1:1 connection between sequencer tracks and mixer channels. Yes, when you create an instrument it gets a sequencer lane to drive it, and a mix channel for it's audio output, but there's nothing really connecting those. Muting a sequencer lane just stops the instrument from receiving notes, it doesn't stop it from producing audio. Muting the mixer channel stops audio output, but doesn't stop the instrument from making sound. You can easily put an audio spider on the output of an instrument and connect it to two different mixer channels. Or use a 6:2 mixer to combine more than one instrument, each of which have their own sequencer lanes, into one mixer channel.

I understand this isn't completely intuitive, and a lot of new users who don't do a lot of custom routing, may miss this fact. But someone who is trying to present themselves as an authoritative source when complaining about how Reason works, really should understand how and why it actually works.

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Post 13 May 2019

Djstarski wrote:
13 May 2019
Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019

Yeah but "Sort Selected Device Groups" only works when you select tracks in the sequencer only doesn't it.
You can select all tracks in the sequencers , rack or mixer and " Sort Selected Device Groups" . But it would be smoother when you move a channel in one it will move in the other two . No big deal though .

All this talk about workflow in Reason . All i have to think about is using hardware back in the day and Reason does not seem that bad at all .
I get you but times move on. Things get easier and more efficient. Like it wasn't a massive deal (for me anyway) in the 80's to walk over to my TV and change channel manually but once the remote control TV was introduced, which one did people opt for? Yes, you guessed it. For me I would much prefer it arranged stuff automatically on the fly.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.3 / Cockus Reaper 5.978 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

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jam-s
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Post 13 May 2019

Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019
Djstarski wrote:
13 May 2019


You can select all tracks in the sequencers , rack or mixer and " Sort Selected Device Groups" . But it would be smoother when you move a channel in one it will move in the other two . No big deal though .

All this talk about workflow in Reason . All i have to think about is using hardware back in the day and Reason does not seem that bad at all .
I get you but times move on. Things get easier and more efficient. Like it wasn't a massive deal (for me anyway) in the 80's to walk over to my TV and change channel manually but once the remote control TV was introduced, which one did people opt for? Yes, you guessed it. For me I would much prefer it arranged stuff automatically on the fly.
OK, so you and the guy from the video are basically asking for "dumb user mode" where there is no flexible routing, but a synced 1-to-1 relation between sequencer and rack and mixer. That's a valid request, but I think the Props should not waste resources on this.

I especially like, that I can arrange the mixer channels like I want and bus them and arrange the buses like I want and the same for the sequencer and rack. Usually I really don't want to have these three views in sync.
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Post 14 May 2019

gdm41 wrote:
11 May 2019
He had some valid points. The mp3 export would be a nice comfort function. And I 100% agree on the solo/muting thing, i´ve using reason since years, and in almost every session i have problems with it. Maybe I dont understand the system behind it but its not intuitive for me. But as mentioned earlier, reason is an audio playground and this guy looking for super efficient industry daw, to make music like a robot.
When you mute the sequencer, you halt the midi going to the rack. When you mute the mixer, you halt the audio signal going out to the hardware output device.

I watched half the video before I gave up. Most of his complaints are user error or not understanding Reason concepts. Honestly Reason is an intermediate DAW to grasp, if he can’t get his head around it he’ll struggle with stuff like Reaper or Cubase which are a tiny bit more challenging imho.

He also said he found the different order of things in the mixer and the rack difficult. You can freely arrange and move things around in the rack and on the mixer to keep them in order. Generally the routing isn’t affected when you move devices in the rack. It’s a non issue. Muting the sequencer is not the same as muting the mixer. It makes sense because Reason follows a hardware concept. If you have device in the rack connected to a step sequencer, you may want to mute its sequencer lane, but keep the step sequencer running and audio going into the mixer.

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Post 14 May 2019

Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019
Djstarski wrote:
13 May 2019


You can select all tracks in the sequencers , rack or mixer and " Sort Selected Device Groups" . But it would be smoother when you move a channel in one it will move in the other two . No big deal though .

All this talk about workflow in Reason . All i have to think about is using hardware back in the day and Reason does not seem that bad at all .
I get you but times move on. Things get easier and more efficient. Like it wasn't a massive deal (for me anyway) in the 80's to walk over to my TV and change channel manually but once the remote control TV was introduced, which one did people opt for? Yes, you guessed it. For me I would much prefer it arranged stuff automatically on the fly.
I honestly cannot grasp tying the mixer to the sequencer. How is that efficient? In my view that would make Reason more difficult to use. Why don’t you use the mute/solo buttons in the rack then?

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sonicbyte
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Post 14 May 2019

Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019
sonicbyte wrote:
13 May 2019
Well I just copy and paste my comment on his video on YouTube:

"I disagree with you in most of your issues, of course you have the right to use whatever DAW you like, but not all you say about Reason is true.
You can re-align mixer channels from the sequencer using "Sort selected device groups
Yeah but "Sort Selected Device Groups" only works when you select tracks in the sequencer only doesn't it and not on the fly (so you have to keep selecting the tracks and then selecting Sort Selected Device Groups which again takes time) which I think is what he's suggesting and Sort Selected Device Groups will only sync the order won't it? muting and solo'ing in all 3 windows won't be sync'ed. I get what he's saying, sync all 3 windows in regard to Order, Labelling, Colouring, Muting and Solo'ing on the fly. Would save so much time searching for stuff but I do get that the mix channels in the Rack and Mixer are connected and the Sequencer is separate and that's how it works but the ability to sync all 3 windows would be welcomed by me for one, and both Browsers too. If you don't need it, fine, turn it off in the preferences (or would a simple toggle it on / off on the transport be better?) and then it'll still work the way it does now.
Regarding the mute in the sequencer tied to the mixer, it doesn't make sense... The mute in the mixer is stoping audio to go out, the other is to stop midi notes go to the rack, is different, is not a mistake, it gives you more flexibility.
You can for instance listen several takes of a melody and quickly audition or test with the same setup without bouncing the track or duplicate devices. It has many advantages you don't get if you tied the sequencer with the mixer.

botnotbot
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Post 14 May 2019

sonicbyte wrote:
14 May 2019
Regarding the mute in the sequencer tied to the mixer, it doesn't make sense... The mute in the mixer is stoping audio to go out, the other is to stop midi notes go to the rack, is different, is not a mistake, it gives you more flexibility.
You can for instance listen several takes of a melody and quickly audition or test with the same setup without bouncing the track or duplicate devices. It has many advantages you don't get if you tied the sequencer with the mixer.
Exactly! There is no 1-to-1 correlation between sequencer tracks to mix channels, which is one of Reason's greatest strengths.

That said, it can slow a user down some times when trying to find at which point in the signal chain something is muted -- it could even be in a line mixer inside a combi! But I am glad to pay that trade off.

However, it is absolutely true that the workflow could really use some track folder-ing. I have my fingers crossed that we will get a solution to this and combinator 2.0 at the same time through a single addition. Some kind of sub-rack/sub-mixer with an expandable macro view.

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gdm41
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Post 14 May 2019

He did a follow-up.
Start lending-> http://www.kiva.org

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kimothebeatmaker
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Post 14 May 2019

I mean...different folks, different strokes. "Why reason sucks" is a bad title. Click bait title. It should be "Why Reason sucks for me" or "thing I don't like about Reason".
"Cocaine and Prostitutes"

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 14 May 2019

This guy is so full of shit.

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diminished
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Post 14 May 2019

gdm41 wrote:
14 May 2019
He did a follow-up.
Just above 10 minutes. How convenient.
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Creativemind
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Post 15 May 2019

jam-s wrote:
13 May 2019
Creativemind wrote:
13 May 2019


I get you but times move on. Things get easier and more efficient. Like it wasn't a massive deal (for me anyway) in the 80's to walk over to my TV and change channel manually but once the remote control TV was introduced, which one did people opt for? Yes, you guessed it. For me I would much prefer it arranged stuff automatically on the fly.
OK, so you and the guy from the video are basically asking for "dumb user mode" where there is no flexible routing, but a synced 1-to-1 relation between sequencer and rack and mixer. That's a valid request, but I think the Props should not waste resources on this.

I especially like, that I can arrange the mixer channels like I want and bus them and arrange the buses like I want and the same for the sequencer and rack. Usually I really don't want to have these three views in sync.
I wasn't asking for my way to be exclusive. If they added "Sync Windows" on the fly, you could use it if you wanted to (which I would) but if you don't like Reason that way, you don't HAVE TO use it. Same as the return playhead thing, you can have that on In the preferences or if this doesn't suit you, leave the box unticked.
:reason:

Propellerhead Reason 10.3 / Cockus Reaper 5.978 / Cakewalk By Bandlab / Steinberg Cubase LE 5
http://soundcloud.com/creativemind75/iv ... soul-mix-3

mcatalao
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Post 16 May 2019

Loque wrote:
10 May 2019
Argument #6: Versioning...
Agree, that this could be supported somehow, but the traps are big. The best thing IS to keep all things tight together including all samples. I had it happen in the past, that i accidently changed a sample, and my "versions" were crap. This can also happen in the same song and i destroyed cool patches that way which are already finished in the same song...Dunno how other DAWs handle this without falling into traps. "Freezing" would be a good help here i guess...

(...)

So the final comment is, "if you want to be pro, you must not use Reason and if you want to get a song finished, you must not use Reason either". So all of you know it now: You will become a pro and get sour songs finished, if you use other DAWs...

Really, this guy is a
ezgif.com-gif-maker(3).gif
You know i think it was SELIG that proposed an internal versioning system sometime ago. You wouldn't even need to separate audio and other data, just have all the metadata separated from audio, and save different versions of that metadata. If you needed to get the status of the project at a given date, you would get the metadata for that date and it would load that slice of the metadata and the project would appear as it was at that date. A new modification to that state would generate a new version based on that previous version. You could even create branching to be able to create different mix states for the song.

If you think of it a reason file is separated in different parts, and different kinds of edits are possible. A parameter edit doesn't kill a lot of space, and can be easily versioned and managed in an internal XML or Json structure (i work with a Data app that does that, object settings are stored in that XML structure and the data is on the side). My take is that Reason already does that, separating the Audio information from the sequencer tracks, song samples and so on from the parameters of the devices, sequencer data, automation, etc. Re patches are already XML structures, that are copied into the project.

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