Good video, some interesting points

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
eiresurfer
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Post 10 May 2019

Let's be clear, I LOVE Reason, so I was interested to hear what Stock Music Musician had to say about it. He's an experienced Reason user, and some of his vids include some excellent tutorials using Reason.



To be honest, I would agree with a lot of his criticisms, particularly around track folders, collapsing grouped tracks, and how messy it can get. Identifying track effects is also a good point. However, converting to MP3 is pretty simple, so I can't agree with that.

xbitz
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Post 10 May 2019

the biggest advantage of Reason to me is the inspiration which the different instruments/devices can give, enough to drop one of them (Alligator, Echo are good examples) to a track and they instantly can generate interesting musical ideas/happy accidents, the finished tracks/stems can be dropped into post-production oriented DAWs like Cubase, S1, Harrison Mixbus(which I like best) etc. later where the mixing/mastering process can be finished comfortably

so not worth comparing creative DAWs like AL, Bitwig, FL, Reason (where the songs are born) with post-processing oriented 'pro' (where the song are finalized) DAWs they have totally different strenght and weakness

btw. creating tracks to the blank plate REs can help a lot with the instrument group separation/navigation(to back to the rack)
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to me
:reason: :recycle: :re: :record: :refill: :rt:

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 May 2019

There was a good point of the Logic option to export the tail, say for instance a reverb trail. Folders, I would love that too, however export to mp3 should die a horrendous death and please make it quick. This isn't 2001 anymore. So, You're a Professional Musician, You have bundles of expensive plugins/ Instruments and You went through all of those years of mixing, to now downgrade into an MP3 --- makes absolute zero sense.

This is 2019 and if bandwidth and hard drive space is still a problem....holy balls.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 May 2019

Also... the whole point to number 1 ( patching in cables ) I was like wtf? Why are You even using Reason?

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 10 May 2019

Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
10 May 2019
There was a good point of the Logic option to export the tail, say for instance a reverb trail. Folders, I would love that too, however export to mp3 should die a horrendous death and please make it quick. This isn't 2001 anymore. So, You're a Professional Musician, You have bundles of expensive plugins/ Instruments and You went through all of those years of mixing, to now downgrade into an MP3 --- makes absolute zero sense.

This is 2019 and if bandwidth and hard drive space is still a problem....holy balls.
No, some of us would like to export to mp3. I would like that. I have clients who only need MP3. Having to do an extra step and convert to mp3 on a different program is an extra step that takes time, and time is money.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 May 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
10 May 2019
Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
10 May 2019
There was a good point of the Logic option to export the tail, say for instance a reverb trail. Folders, I would love that too, however export to mp3 should die a horrendous death and please make it quick. This isn't 2001 anymore. So, You're a Professional Musician, You have bundles of expensive plugins/ Instruments and You went through all of those years of mixing, to now downgrade into an MP3 --- makes absolute zero sense.

This is 2019 and if bandwidth and hard drive space is still a problem....holy balls.
No, some of us would like to export to mp3. I would like that. I have clients who only need MP3. Having to do an extra step and convert to mp3 on a different program is an extra step that takes time, and time is money.
Well, I'm extremely against it as You can see. There's a bizzilion other progs to do that for you and it might waste 2 minutes of your time. Did You see what angle I came from tho?

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 May 2019

I understand time is money of course, but why would they want a downgraded version of said piece

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Ahornberg
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Post 10 May 2019

He talked a lot about wasting time by using Reason but he actually wasted a lot of time just by making this video ... think about how much music he could have produced at this time!

He also says he produces 8 songs in a month, that's only 2 songs a week. I don't think he's a professional producer and makes a living out of music.
Last edited by Ahornberg on 10 May 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 May 2019

Ahornberg wrote:
10 May 2019
He talked a lot about wasting time by using Reason but he actually wasted a lot of time just by making this video ... think about how much music he could have produced at this time!
That made me laugh lol

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 10 May 2019

Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
10 May 2019
I understand time is money of course, but why would they want a downgraded version of said piece
Not all work done in Reason is music. And some formats get published in MP3.

I understand your point, but having the option there doesn't do anything to the wave export. Or you mean that if it was there it would force you to export in that and forget about lossless rendering? 😱

Tools and options are there for those who need them. If you only do music, your don't need to click on the bounce to MP3 option of you don't want to.

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 10 May 2019

Ahornberg wrote:
10 May 2019
He talked a lot about wasting time by using Reason but he actually wasted a lot of time just by making this video ... think about how much music he could have produced at this time!
I'm not going to watch his video. But when it comes to music making, Reason is king of fast workflow and creativity. So now I'm going to watch his video even less 😂 he has no idea what he's talking about.

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Biolumin3sc3nt
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Post 10 May 2019

PhillipOrdonez wrote:
10 May 2019
Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
10 May 2019
I understand time is money of course, but why would they want a downgraded version of said piece
Not all work done in Reason is music. And some formats get published in MP3.

I understand your point, but having the option there doesn't do anything to the wave export. Or you mean that if it was there it would force you to export in that and forget about lossless rendering? 😱

Tools and options are there for those who need them. If you only do music, your don't need to click on the bounce to MP3 option of you don't want to.
Phillip... are You doing Video work in Reason? And yes, music does get published in MP3 format and should die a quick and brutal death. There's no reason for it in this day and age. Thus my point, is on the argument about "Bandwidth/ Storage ? Perhaps I should "Bitchslap" your clients into submission. I'm kidding, I'm not a violent person, but if they still require MP3/s ... wow

two shoes
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Post 10 May 2019

reason is an audio playground and it's the best playground in town. but playgrounds are for playing and having fun - professionals don't work in playgrounds.

seriously though, as creative environment for people who's goals are artistic that don't need to churn out track after track to satisfy some suit by some deadline nothing can touch reason. what piqued my interest in reason was the ssl mixer, but what really set the hook was the variety and quality of instruments available in RE format and the endless ways to play with them.
i could never go back to a daw where i didn't have access to grain, or nostromo, or viking vk-2, or antidote, or jps harmonic, or ES-01, or resonans, or revival, or spectra, or oberon, or all the wonderful cv and player devices to hook them up to. and now i can have anything that strikes my fancy from vst land too and it'll actually run. people forget that reason has only had a traditional audio sequencer bolted onto it for a few years - the relatively primitive workflow and lack of integration between the sequencer, rack, and mixer is going to be less and less of a thing as time goes on and the rack is only going to get better and better - we might even get a shiny new ssl mixer mk2 one of these days.

i finish much less music than i did when i was using reaper or live as my primary daw, but the time i spend building ridiculous rube goldberg contraptions in the rack just to see what will happen when i hit run is some of the most fun i've ever had with music software, and i've realized i have a real interest in generative and semi-generative composition along the way. the rack encourages you to make things and think in ways that might never occur to you working with logic/cubase/pro tools/etc and that's why i'm pretty sure i'll be using it enthusiastically for the rest of my life even it stops being developed at some point.

Props piss me off quite regularly, and some of their decision making has me genuinely worried about their long term prospects, but they've been doing everything their own infuriating way since the beginning as best i can tell so i'll probably just have to get used to it. I never got nearly as upset about the way cockos or ableton developed their daws or treated their customers, but that's because i was never anywhere near as invested in those programs as i am in reason, financially or emotionally. i've had flings with other daws, but i am married to reason, warts and all.

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Ahornberg
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Post 10 May 2019

two shoes wrote:
10 May 2019

[...] i finish much less music than i did when i was using reaper or live as my primary daw, but the time i spend building ridiculous rube goldberg contraptions in the rack just to see what will happen when i hit run is some of the most fun i've ever had with music software, and i've realized i have a real interest in generative and semi-generative composition along the way. the rack encourages you to make things and think in ways that might never occur to you working with logic/cubase/pro tools/etc and that's why i'm pretty sure i'll be using it enthusiastically for the rest of my life even it stops being developed at some point. [...]
This is it!

PhillipOrdonez
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Post 10 May 2019

Biolumin3sc3nt wrote:
10 May 2019
PhillipOrdonez wrote:
10 May 2019

Phillip... are You doing Video work in Reason? And yes, music does get published in MP3 format and should die a quick and brutal death. There's no reason for it in this day and age. Thus my point, is on the argument about "Bandwidth/ Storage ? Perhaps I should "Bitchslap" your clients into submission. I'm kidding, I'm not a violent person, but if they still require MP3/s ... wow
From time to time but video audio I always deliver in wave. The type of clients who I send MP3 to are interview type podcasts, and they make up the majority of my client base.

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O1B
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Post 10 May 2019

Image
two shoes wrote:
10 May 2019
reason is an audio playground and it's the best playground in town. but playgrounds are for playing and having fun - professionals don't work in playgrounds.

... people forget that reason has only had a traditional audio sequencer bolted onto it for a few years - the relatively primitive workflow and lack of integration between the sequencer, rack, and mixer is going to be less and less of a thing as time goes on and the rack is only going to get better and better - we might even get a shiny new ssl mixer mk2 one of these days.

i finish much less music than i did when i was using reaper or live as my primary daw, but the time i spend building ridiculous rube goldberg contraptions in the rack just to see what will happen when i hit run is some of the most fun i've ever had with music software, and i've realized i have a real interest in generative and semi-generative composition along the way. the rack encourages you to make things and think in ways that might never occur to you working with logic/cubase/pro tools/etc and that's why i'm pretty sure i'll be using it enthusiastically for the rest of my life even it stops being developed at some point.

*****
Props piss me off quite regularly, and some of their decision making has me genuinely worried about their long term prospects, but they've been doing everything their own infuriating way since the beginning as best i can tell so i'll probably just have to get used to it. I never got nearly as upset about the way cockos or ableton developed their daws or treated their customers, but that's because i was never anywhere near as invested in those programs as i am in reason, financially or emotionally. i've had flings with other daws, but i am married to reason, warts and all.
*****

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EnochLight
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Post 10 May 2019

LOL!!!.. Opening paragraph:
"Today I have a sort of serious take on Why. Reason. Sucks. And why I've sort of... moved away from using it."
Then...
"But this is also going to be a video. CELEBRATING. REASON."
:lol: :roll:

Ahhh these YouTubers and their videoz. :puf_bigsmile:
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Loque
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Post 10 May 2019

Argument #1: Takes too long to wire up things...
What a bs. Just drag it into the rack and you are done. If i see those tiny menus in other DAWs it takes at least the same or more time to add a device. Rerouting is the same and some routings within Reason are hard to re-create in other DAWs.

I agree, that the organising can be sometimes hard in Reason, in the Rack, Sequencer and in the Mixer and especially in the rack you can get a bit lost sometimes. I liked it a lot in Ableton that everything is there that belongs to the current track. Maybe Reason should have some reduced view for only the current track, showing the devices for it and only in the advanced view you can wire things up with cables if required. But tbh, i would use it always in advanced mode i guess..


Argument #2: No MP3...
Yea...very time consuming thing. Probably in the time he recorded the video and uploaded it, he could convert 100 songs to MP3... But i agree, that a export to MP3 is easy stuff today.


Argument #3: No tail for bounced recording...
Again BS...just increase the size of the clip and its there... What i miss sometimes is a "real loop" bounce, but this can be very, very difficult in Reason... Always wonder, how other DAWs do this for real...


Argument #4: Positioning and organisation of Rack+Sequencer+Mixer...Soloing...
Just one click away...and it is nearly the same as argument #1...

And there is a difference in soloing a track, a channel, or both. Maybe someone should explain this to him...


Argument #5: Hide/Collapse tracks...
See #4 and #1 too. I agree to this.


Argument #6: Versioning...
Agree, that this could be supported somehow, but the traps are big. The best thing IS to keep all things tight together including all samples. I had it happen in the past, that i accidently changed a sample, and my "versions" were crap. This can also happen in the same song and i destroyed cool patches that way which are already finished in the same song...Dunno how other DAWs handle this without falling into traps. "Freezing" would be a good help here i guess...

Argument #7 (the final big one): No video...
Well, nope, well, only via a VST. No big issue for me atm, but i get the point. I think more and more ppl want to create videos for their tracks and upload them somewhere. The ppl today want to "see" the music. Reason should not be a full video editing software, but syncing or Rewire support on video software can be a start. This can also be a good chance for "video add ins", which generate some basic videos synced to a tune and those add ins can be sold via the shop and you can use those video addins like a RE to generate video on the fly and can be automated and stuff like that....



So the final comment is, "if you want to be pro, you must not use Reason and if you want to get a song finished, you must not use Reason either". So all of you know it now: You will become a pro and get sour songs finished, if you use other DAWs...

Really, this guy is a
ezgif.com-gif-maker(3).gif
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diminished
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Post 10 May 2019

It's a clickbait video and by typing this I've already spend too many resources on this topic.

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EnochLight
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Post 10 May 2019

Loque wrote:
10 May 2019
Argument #1: Takes too long to wire up things...
What a bs. Just drag it into the rack and you are done. If i see those tiny menus in other DAWs it takes at least the same or more time to add a device. Rerouting is the same and some routings within Reason are hard to re-create in other DAWs.

I agree, that the organising can be sometimes hard in Reason, in the Rack, Sequencer and in the Mixer and especially in the rack you can get a bit lost sometimes. I liked it a lot in Ableton that everything is there that belongs to the current track. Maybe Reason should have some reduced view for only the current track, showing the devices for it and only in the advanced view you can wire things up with cables if required. But tbh, i would use it always in advanced mode i guess..


Argument #2: No MP3...
Yea...very time consuming thing. Probably in the time he recorded the video and uploaded it, he could convert 100 songs to MP3... But i agree, that a export to MP3 is easy stuff today.


Argument #3: No tail for bounced recording...
Again BS...just increase the size of the clip and its there... What i miss sometimes is a "real loop" bounce, but this can be very, very difficult in Reason... Always wonder, how other DAWs do this for real...


Argument #4: Positioning and organisation of Rack+Sequencer+Mixer...Soloing...
Just one click away...and it is nearly the same as argument #1...

And there is a difference in soloing a track, a channel, or both. Maybe someone should explain this to him...


Argument #5: Hide/Collapse tracks...
See #4 and #1 too. I agree to this.


Argument #6: Versioning...
Agree, that this could be supported somehow, but the traps are big. The best thing IS to keep all things tight together including all samples. I had it happen in the past, that i accidently changed a sample, and my "versions" were crap. This can also happen in the same song and i destroyed cool patches that way which are already finished in the same song...Dunno how other DAWs handle this without falling into traps. "Freezing" would be a good help here i guess...

Argument #7 (the final big one): No video...
Well, nope, well, only via a VST. No big issue for me atm, but i get the point. I think more and more ppl want to create videos for their tracks and upload them somewhere. The ppl today want to "see" the music. Reason should not be a full video editing software, but syncing or Rewire support on video software can be a start. This can also be a good chance for "video add ins", which generate some basic videos synced to a tune and those add ins can be sold via the shop and you can use those video addins like a RE to generate video on the fly and can be automated and stuff like that....



So the final comment is, "if you want to be pro, you must not use Reason and if you want to get a song finished, you must not use Reason either". So all of you know it now: You will become a pro and get sour songs finished, if you use other DAWs...

Really, this guy is a
ezgif.com-gif-maker(3).gif
I didn't even bother watching his video (I've seen a few of them and don't find them very interesting), so if these are his primary complaints of "Why. Reason. Sucks" and why he is drifting into another DAW, then he most certainly is not someone who's opinion I'd hold in high regard on the subject. I mean seriously - MP3 export?! LMAO!!! :roll: :lol: I mean, that's not a swipe against him as a person - I'm sure he's a standup guy.

Also, kudos for the Ren and Stimpy GIF. :D
Windows 10 | Reason 10.4 |  Studio One 4.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live | Roland System 8 | Roland TR-8 with 7x7 Expansion

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Loque
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Post 10 May 2019

EnochLight wrote:
10 May 2019
... Ren and Stimpy GIF. :D
:o That is impressive that you identified it :thumbs_up:
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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reddust
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Post 10 May 2019

Loque wrote:
10 May 2019
Argument #6: Versioning...
Agree, that this could be supported somehow, but the traps are big. The best thing IS to keep all things tight together including all samples. I had it happen in the past, that i accidently changed a sample, and my "versions" were crap. This can also happen in the same song and i destroyed cool patches that way which are already finished in the same song...Dunno how other DAWs handle this without falling into traps. "Freezing" would be a good help here i guess...

Argument #7 (the final big one): No video...
Well, nope, well, only via a VST. No big issue for me atm, but i get the point. I think more and more ppl want to create videos for their tracks and upload them somewhere. The ppl today want to "see" the music. Reason should not be a full video editing software, but syncing or Rewire support on video software can be a start. This can also be a good chance for "video add ins", which generate some basic videos synced to a tune and those add ins can be sold via the shop and you can use those video addins like a RE to generate video on the fly and can be automated and stuff like that....
Totally agree with your point about Argument#6, I used to work with Ableton Live in the past, and transferring projects to friends was way more complicated than just saving a file in Reason, that might be a big one but not really anymore for these days plus you can always use the optimization option and get rid of unused files. I started hating AL as soon as I got a new computer or had to restore old songs I haven't worked with for months. AL saved every single audio take with an automatized name, which can be very useful to save time while recording, but trying to find the right file when not working under optimal conditions was a pain in the a...

About the video support, I've seen people asking for that feature in Reason but or me it's completely irrelevant, and I actually like editing videos and plan to do that for the music I write and record in Reason in the future, but for me it's better to have things separated, when I'm working on a music track I want to concentrate on that and having lots of menu items that are only for video purposes would be something I'd find pretty annoying to be honest. If you have some good video editing software adding audio tracks to it is not only easy but almost a required feature (even Chaplin movies had some music on them). But working on music doesn't require having video menus that get in the middle of the process of creating audio files. I'd prefer not to have anything concerning video in Reason.

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Loque
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Post 10 May 2019

reddust wrote:
10 May 2019
Loque wrote:
10 May 2019
Argument #6: Versioning...
Agree, that this could be supported somehow, but the traps are big. The best thing IS to keep all things tight together including all samples. I had it happen in the past, that i accidently changed a sample, and my "versions" were crap. This can also happen in the same song and i destroyed cool patches that way which are already finished in the same song...Dunno how other DAWs handle this without falling into traps. "Freezing" would be a good help here i guess...

Argument #7 (the final big one): No video...
Well, nope, well, only via a VST. No big issue for me atm, but i get the point. I think more and more ppl want to create videos for their tracks and upload them somewhere. The ppl today want to "see" the music. Reason should not be a full video editing software, but syncing or Rewire support on video software can be a start. This can also be a good chance for "video add ins", which generate some basic videos synced to a tune and those add ins can be sold via the shop and you can use those video addins like a RE to generate video on the fly and can be automated and stuff like that....
Totally agree with your point about Argument#6, I used to work with Ableton Live in the past, and transferring projects to friends was way more complicated than just saving a file in Reason, that might be a big one but not really anymore for these days plus you can always use the optimization option and get rid of unused files. I started hating AL as soon as I got a new computer or had to restore old songs I haven't worked with for months. AL saved every single audio take with an automatized name, which can be very useful to save time while recording, but trying to find the right file when not working under optimal conditions was a pain in the a...

About the video support, I've seen people asking for that feature in Reason but or me it's completely irrelevant, and I actually like editing videos and plan to do that for the music I write and record in Reason in the future, but for me it's better to have things separated, when I'm working on a music track I want to concentrate on that and having lots of menu items that are only for video purposes would be something I'd find pretty annoying to be honest. If you have some good video editing software adding audio tracks to it is not only easy but almost a required feature (even Chaplin movies had some music on them). But working on music doesn't require having video menus that get in the middle of the process of creating audio files. I'd prefer not to have anything concerning video in Reason.
I think the point for video support is more to "compose" to the scenes and movie parts. For just a video to your music, you do not really need this - or did anybody seen a musician first creating it's music video and than the music?
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

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Wobbleburger
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Post 10 May 2019

diminished wrote:
10 May 2019
It's a clickbait video and by typing this I've already spend too many resources on this topic.
I agree with this very much. Did not enjoy this video. He makes stock music so that confirms that he's in it for the money.
I like jungle.

Reason 10 - Win10 - i7 9700k - 32gb DDR4 - Novation Launchkey 25 - Korg Nanokontrol 2 - Scarlet 2i2 2nd Gen - Shure SM58 - Currently obsessed with Phase Plant

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chimp_spanner
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Post 10 May 2019

I mean as I said in my comment on the video, I can't agree with the statement that Reason isn't for finishing "professional" songs. I've had a fair few tracks licensed over the last couple of years that were started and finished in Reason so it's objectively not true that Reason can't be used for paid/professional work. Very odd conclusion to reach.

Could it be faster? Yes. I'll keep saying it until we get it but folders, visibility, track/rack/strip order sync; these things would make life so much easier. Not particularly glamorous changes but if he's right about anything it's that when you're working on high volumes of tracks in a short space of time (as is often the case with library/production music) then all those clicks sync'ing device order, and all that scrolling around finding stuff, trying to navigate impossibly tall arrangements...it all adds up. Seconds into minutes into hours.

Crossing my fingers *hard* for these small but essential additions in version 11!
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

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