Reason 10.3 public beta is open!

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
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Magnus
Posts: 100
Joined: 03 Jul 2018

Post 18 Mar 2019

ProfessaKaos wrote:
17 Mar 2019
riemac wrote:
17 Mar 2019


Yes, you can see that it was removed on the official 10.3 picture. I think there is another change, but I am not sure.
No "Delay Comp" button
Their rewrite of the audio engine has probably meant Delay Comp is always on now without any performance disadvantage, hence no need for it to be a user toggle anymore.

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dioxide
Posts: 1053
Joined: 15 Jul 2015

Post 18 Mar 2019

Better to check, but I think it is still there, it's just that the Seq Bar hides items when you reduce its width. The Delay Comp switch is the first thing that gets hidden.

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MattiasHG
Posts: 246
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 18 Mar 2019

Magnus wrote:
18 Mar 2019
ProfessaKaos wrote:
17 Mar 2019


No "Delay Comp" button
Their rewrite of the audio engine has probably meant Delay Comp is always on now without any performance disadvantage, hence no need for it to be a user toggle anymore.
OR it was an accidental photoshop when removing the Allihoopa button from an older screenshot! :)

Delay compensation button is, of course, still there. There's no such thing as delay compensation without disadvantages—there will always be latency when delay compensation is used. That's how it works, you delay everything equally resulting in even (but as long as the longest delay) latency. :ugeek:

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diminished
Posts: 605
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 18 Mar 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Magnus wrote:
18 Mar 2019


Their rewrite of the audio engine has probably meant Delay Comp is always on now without any performance disadvantage, hence no need for it to be a user toggle anymore.
OR it was an accidental photoshop when removing the Allihoopa button from an older screenshot! :)

Delay compensation button is, of course, still there. There's no such thing as delay compensation without disadvantages—there will always be latency when delay compensation is used. That's how it works, you delay everything equally resulting in even (but as long as the longest delay) latency. :ugeek:
Unless.. you finally pump out that quantum computing upgrade which you promised to include in Reason 10.4 :P
Reason 10 :reason: Teenage Engineering PO-33 :reason: M-Audio Venom

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diminished
Posts: 605
Joined: 15 Dec 2018

Post 18 Mar 2019

(PSA)
Cool so I'm in the beta now. I hope some more people in our forum now too. I already reported a few things and let me tell you it's a bumpy ride for sure with the logging enabled. But please, everyone, test thoroughly and let's help make this upgrade excellent!
Reason 10 :reason: Teenage Engineering PO-33 :reason: M-Audio Venom

Fusion
Posts: 24
Joined: 24 Mar 2017

Post 18 Mar 2019

Got a prompt response from propellerheads:

I'm afraid we're not updating Reason 9 any longer. The VST performance update and any future updates will be made to Reason 10 only.

We unfortunately can't upgrade you for free. We have a 30 day trial policy, which should be more that enough to see how a Reason upgrade performs on your system before purchasing.
We also have a 30 day refund policy, allowing you to return Reason within 30 days from your purchase.

Best Regards,

John
Product Support
Propellerhead Software

It’s a shame to see them treat users like this as reason 9 has never performed well on Mac OS X.
I put my faith in the company and have kept waiting for a fix as I think reason is the best daw I have tried. Seems like they wasted to much resources on Allihoopa and making new instruments etc which could have waited. This is a joke and unfortunatly I have to stay because I prefer reason over other daws and have invested to much money in racks etc to leave now ( I guess another reason why they will not upgrade me to 10)
Hopefully now that allihoopa has closed And a major re write we will see reason become more stable and not waiting years for them to fix bugs.

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Loque
Posts: 5373
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 18 Mar 2019

Fusion wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Got a prompt response from propellerheads:

I'm afraid we're not updating Reason 9 any longer. The VST performance update and any future updates will be made to Reason 10 only.

We unfortunately can't upgrade you for free. We have a 30 day trial policy, which should be more that enough to see how a Reason upgrade performs on your system before purchasing.
We also have a 30 day refund policy, allowing you to return Reason within 30 days from your purchase.

Best Regards,

John
Product Support
Propellerhead Software

It’s a shame to see them treat users like this as reason 9 has never performed well on Mac OS X.
I put my faith in the company and have kept waiting for a fix as I think reason is the best daw I have tried. Seems like they wasted to much resources on Allihoopa and making new instruments etc which could have waited. This is a joke and unfortunatly I have to stay because I prefer reason over other daws and have invested to much money in racks etc to leave now ( I guess another reason why they will not upgrade me to 10)
Hopefully now that allihoopa has closed And a major re write we will see reason become more stable and not waiting years for them to fix bugs.
Guess you read the disclaimer at the end of your email....And you just could buy a upgrade.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1230
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

Post 18 Mar 2019

diminished wrote:
18 Mar 2019
(PSA)
Cool so I'm in the beta now. I hope some more people in our forum now too. I already reported a few things and let me tell you it's a bumpy ride for sure with the logging enabled. But please, everyone, test thoroughly and let's help make this upgrade excellent!
I’m really hoping for a boost in serum, that’s the main vst that I use. Everything else is too alien still.

Lol I’m more so excited for the fact that there a possible up to 30% increase for stock/RE usage.
Hopefully this means even more expanse usage :)
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

scratchnsnifff
Posts: 1230
Joined: 21 Sep 2016

Post 18 Mar 2019

Loque wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Fusion wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Got a prompt response from propellerheads:

I'm afraid we're not updating Reason 9 any longer. The VST performance update and any future updates will be made to Reason 10 only.

We unfortunately can't upgrade you for free. We have a 30 day trial policy, which should be more that enough to see how a Reason upgrade performs on your system before purchasing.
We also have a 30 day refund policy, allowing you to return Reason within 30 days from your purchase.

Best Regards,

John
Product Support
Propellerhead Software

It’s a shame to see them treat users like this as reason 9 has never performed well on Mac OS X.
I put my faith in the company and have kept waiting for a fix as I think reason is the best daw I have tried. Seems like they wasted to much resources on Allihoopa and making new instruments etc which could have waited. This is a joke and unfortunatly I have to stay because I prefer reason over other daws and have invested to much money in racks etc to leave now ( I guess another reason why they will not upgrade me to 10)
Hopefully now that allihoopa has closed And a major re write we will see reason become more stable and not waiting years for them to fix bugs.
Guess you read the disclaimer at the end of your email....And you just could buy a upgrade.
Well that seems like a straight enough answer, in all honesty. And as much as it might hurt financially. The update to 10 is absolutely worth the money. And if I remember correctly, it might still be on sale?
Mayor of plucktown :evil:

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antic604
Posts: 2029
Joined: 23 Oct 2017
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 18 Mar 2019

Loque wrote:
17 Mar 2019
npinero1 wrote:
17 Mar 2019


I can’t believe it took 4 pages for someone to finally ask if others (beta testers) are actually seeing an improvement.
So..... is anyone seeing an improvement ?!?!?!
It was obvious to most ppl I guess... No improvement with logging enabled. We need to wait a bit more.
Wasn't it said there's a switch for pre- and post-10.3, so that you can actually see if performance is improved? You just can't do it with your current songs that were maxing out the DSP, because they won't even run. But you can definitely load up e.g. Hive & compare DSP with or without 10.3 fix.
Bitwig 2 // Reason 10 // Cubase Pro 10 @ Lenovo Y730 15'' i7-8750h
my music - https://soundcloud.com/antic604
other stuff - "Psytrance in Bitwig Studio" tutorial

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EnochLight
Posts: 5462
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: your mom

Post 18 Mar 2019

Fusion wrote:
18 Mar 2019
It’s a shame to see them treat users like this as reason 9 has never performed well on Mac OS X.
Yes, it's a shame they give you a 30-day free trial as well as a 30-day money back refund option when you buy. :shock: :? :lol:
I mean seriously, you didn't put it through its paces in the 60-day window that you had to see that it wasn't performing well enough for you as you needed on OSX?

Sorry man, you're being completely unrealistic if you think they owe you anything, especially spending the time and resources to update an old version of Reason that you had plenty of time to test before buying. I mean, unless you bought it on the idea that they would go back and update it before releasing a paid update? In which case, you're grossly out of touch with how the world of software development works.
Windows 10 64-bit | Reason 10.4 |  Studio One 4.5 | Asus Sabertooth Z77 | Intel i7 3770k Quad-Core @ 3.5 Ghz | 16 GB RAM | Mushkin Reactor 1TB SSD | RME Babyface Pro| Nektar Panorama P-4 | Akai MPC Live

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Loque
Posts: 5373
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

Post 18 Mar 2019

antic604 wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Loque wrote:
17 Mar 2019

It was obvious to most ppl I guess... No improvement with logging enabled. We need to wait a bit more.
Wasn't it said there's a switch for pre- and post-10.3, so that you can actually see if performance is improved? You just can't do it with your current songs that were maxing out the DSP, because they won't even run. But you can definitely load up e.g. Hive & compare DSP with or without 10.3 fix.
Good point. But I guess there is different logging amount in old and new engine. For best performance comparison wait until logging is removed.
Last edited by Loque on 18 Mar 2019, edited 1 time in total.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 100
Joined: 03 Jul 2018

Post 18 Mar 2019

MattiasHG wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Magnus wrote:
18 Mar 2019


Their rewrite of the audio engine has probably meant Delay Comp is always on now without any performance disadvantage, hence no need for it to be a user toggle anymore.
OR it was an accidental photoshop when removing the Allihoopa button from an older screenshot! :)

Delay compensation button is, of course, still there. There's no such thing as delay compensation without disadvantages—there will always be latency when delay compensation is used. That's how it works, you delay everything equally resulting in even (but as long as the longest delay) latency. :ugeek:
Ah yes, when you put it like that it makes sense! I just wondered if with the clever stuff you're doing with buffers and audio engine optimisation now now whether it had rendered the toggle option of Delay Comp obsolete.

Keep up the good work!

Out of interest, does this update mean that an old Reason 7 .reason file (full of native devices and Props REs) if loaded inside Reason 10.3 final would theoretically have a lower DSP count on the same OS and hardware? Or does this 30% gain in performance simply recover back any performance that had been lost over the years with added update code?

mcatalao
Posts: 958
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 18 Mar 2019

Magnus wrote:
MattiasHG wrote:
18 Mar 2019


OR it was an accidental photoshop when removing the Allihoopa button from an older screenshot! :)

Delay compensation button is, of course, still there. There's no such thing as delay compensation without disadvantages—there will always be latency when delay compensation is used. That's how it works, you delay everything equally resulting in even (but as long as the longest delay) latency. :ugeek:
Ah yes, when you put it like that it makes sense! I just wondered if with the clever stuff you're doing with buffers and audio engine optimisation now now whether it had rendered the toggle option of Delay Comp obsolete.

Keep up the good work!

Out of interest, does this update mean that an old Reason 7 .reason file (full of native devices and Props REs) if loaded inside Reason 10.3 final would theoretically have a lower DSP count on the same OS and hardware? Or does this 30% gain in performance simply recover back any performance that had been lost over the years with added update code?
Magnus, test a r6/7/8 project against the same file on r10.2 and you will see the performance is the same. I've already did that test with reason 6.5,8 and 10.2 and the performance is marginally the same on the 3 versions. You have make sure the same conditions applynso from R7 to r10 you need to setup r10 without hyperthreading for example.

That being said you might experience better performance even compared to v7, because propellerheads state that projects with res and base instruments got better. (read their blog).

Sent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk
Last edited by mcatalao on 18 Mar 2019, edited 1 time in total.

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AttenuationHz
Posts: 1881
Joined: 20 Mar 2015
Location: Back of the Rack-1

Post 18 Mar 2019

scratchnsnifff wrote:
18 Mar 2019

Well that seems like a straight enough answer, in all honesty. And as much as it might hurt financially. The update to 10 is absolutely worth the money. And if I remember correctly, it might still be on sale?
Yes until March 31st!
Waiting for Navigation by Routing to be added! viewtopic.php?p=275484#p275484f=6&t=749 ... 97#p275497
:refill: http://rwrd.io/qx9m5wx Referral!

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Enterface
Posts: 39
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Location: New York, NY

Post 18 Mar 2019

Will UAD plugins now run as they are intended (utilizing the the hardware DSP as opposed to internal CPU)?

botnotbot
Posts: 210
Joined: 26 Oct 2017

Post 18 Mar 2019

Enterface wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Will UAD plugins now run as they are intended (utilizing the the hardware DSP as opposed to internal CPU)?
Theoretically, yes, any VST that needs to manage it’s own buffer in order to function should be able to work with the engine changes they described. This would include Overbridge and the like as well.

But only the beta will tell us for sure.

User avatar
Enterface
Posts: 39
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Location: New York, NY

Post 18 Mar 2019

botnotbot wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Enterface wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Will UAD plugins now run as they are intended (utilizing the the hardware DSP as opposed to internal CPU)?
Theoretically, yes, any VST that needs to manage it’s own buffer in order to function should be able to work with the engine changes they described. This would include Overbridge and the like as well.

But only the beta will tell us for sure.
This is amazing news! Thanks for the reply! :puf_bigsmile:

Reminiscence
Posts: 92
Joined: 31 May 2016

Post 18 Mar 2019

And what about them VST3? :ugeek:

fretshot7
Posts: 182
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 18 Mar 2019

Fusion wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Got a prompt response from propellerheads:

I'm afraid we're not updating Reason 9 any longer. The VST performance update and any future updates will be made to Reason 10 only.

We unfortunately can't upgrade you for free. We have a 30 day trial policy, which should be more that enough to see how a Reason upgrade performs on your system before purchasing.
We also have a 30 day refund policy, allowing you to return Reason within 30 days from your purchase.

Best Regards,

John
Product Support
Propellerhead Software

It’s a shame to see them treat users like this as reason 9 has never performed well on Mac OS X.
I put my faith in the company and have kept waiting for a fix as I think reason is the best daw I have tried. Seems like they wasted to much resources on Allihoopa and making new instruments etc which could have waited. This is a joke and unfortunatly I have to stay because I prefer reason over other daws and have invested to much money in racks etc to leave now ( I guess another reason why they will not upgrade me to 10)
Hopefully now that allihoopa has closed And a major re write we will see reason become more stable and not waiting years for them to fix bugs.
whatever is stopping you upgrading to version10 get over it! v10 is da bomb, ya cant go wrong! get it 😀

botnotbot
Posts: 210
Joined: 26 Oct 2017

Post 19 Mar 2019

Enterface wrote:
18 Mar 2019
botnotbot wrote:
18 Mar 2019


Theoretically, yes, any VST that needs to manage it’s own buffer in order to function should be able to work with the engine changes they described. This would include Overbridge and the like as well.

But only the beta will tell us for sure.
This is amazing news! Thanks for the reply! :puf_bigsmile:
Don’t take it as truth, yet, though!

However, for sure the inability of the plugin to manage its own buffer would keep it from working properly.

Fingers crossed!

User avatar
plaamook
Posts: 924
Joined: 22 Jan 2015
Location: probably underwater

Post 19 Mar 2019

fretshot7 wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Fusion wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Got a prompt response from propellerheads:

I'm afraid we're not updating Reason 9 any longer. The VST performance update and any future updates will be made to Reason 10 only.

We unfortunately can't upgrade you for free. We have a 30 day trial policy, which should be more that enough to see how a Reason upgrade performs on your system before purchasing.
We also have a 30 day refund policy, allowing you to return Reason within 30 days from your purchase.

Best Regards,

John
Product Support
Propellerhead Software

It’s a shame to see them treat users like this as reason 9 has never performed well on Mac OS X.
I put my faith in the company and have kept waiting for a fix as I think reason is the best daw I have tried. Seems like they wasted to much resources on Allihoopa and making new instruments etc which could have waited. This is a joke and unfortunatly I have to stay because I prefer reason over other daws and have invested to much money in racks etc to leave now ( I guess another reason why they will not upgrade me to 10)
Hopefully now that allihoopa has closed And a major re write we will see reason become more stable and not waiting years for them to fix bugs.
whatever is stopping you upgrading to version10 get over it! v10 is da bomb, ya cant go wrong! get it 😀
Word up

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 100
Joined: 03 Jul 2018

Post 19 Mar 2019

mcatalao wrote:
18 Mar 2019
Magnus wrote:
Ah yes, when you put it like that it makes sense! I just wondered if with the clever stuff you're doing with buffers and audio engine optimisation now whether it had rendered the toggle option of Delay Comp obsolete.

Keep up the good work!

Out of interest, does this update mean that an old Reason 7 .reason file (full of native devices and Props REs) if loaded inside Reason 10.3 final would theoretically have a lower DSP count on the same OS and hardware? Or does this 30% gain in performance simply recover back any performance that had been lost over the years with added update code?
Magnus, test a r6/7/8 project against the same file on r10.2 and you will see the performance is the same. I've already did that test with reason 6.5,8 and 10.2 and the performance is marginally the same on the 3 versions. You have make sure the same conditions applynso from R7 to r10 you need to setup r10 without hyperthreading for example.

That being said you might experience better performance even compared to v7, because propellerheads state that projects with res and base instruments got better. (read their blog).
I'm wondering if this 'myth' about Reason performance getting worse is exclusively down to newer retina Macs and Reason running at an overhead by default as the 'Open in Low Resolution' option isn't ticked automatically in the App's inspector.

Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing some true performance benchmarks once the final version of 10.3 has gone live without the logging slowing everything down :)

mcatalao
Posts: 958
Joined: 17 Jan 2015

Post 19 Mar 2019

Magnus wrote:
19 Mar 2019

Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing some true performance benchmarks once the final version of 10.3 has gone live without the logging slowing everything down :)
I already did one with R10.2 vs R8 vs R6 recovering an old project (mostly samples, with a lot of stuff from reason Combi - Pianos, Drums, Electric Bass and Abbey Road Keys) and with a Synth project with Synth Re's that work with R6. Performance is mostly the same in the 2-3% ballpark. I planned to turn it into a video, but i'm as lazy as they come. Maybe this weekend cause i even have the stuff prepared.

:)

User avatar
Magnus
Posts: 100
Joined: 03 Jul 2018

Post 19 Mar 2019

mcatalao wrote:
19 Mar 2019
Magnus wrote:
19 Mar 2019

Cool, I'm looking forward to seeing some true performance benchmarks once the final version of 10.3 has gone live without the logging slowing everything down :)
I already did one with R10.2 vs R8 vs R6 recovering an old project (mostly samples, with a lot of stuff from reason Combi - Pianos, Drums, Electric Bass and Abbey Road Keys) and with a Synth project with Synth Re's that work with R6. Performance is mostly the same in the 2-3% ballpark. I planned to turn it into a video, but i'm as lazy as they come. Maybe this weekend cause i even have the stuff prepared.

:)
Out of interest are you Mac or Windows?

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