Hi folks.
I used to be very into MIDI and home recording with multitrack cassette, etc. as a hobby, back in the 80's but got away from it. I'm getting back into it now and looking to invest a few dollars in some software.
I'm comfortable with audio software since I do a lot of digitizing vinyl records and audio restoration so I have a decent array of VSTs, editors such as Adobe Audition and iZotope RX, and also have Reaper for a DAW. I play electric and acoustic guitar and have an interface (Steinberg UR44) for recording. I also have a small M-Audio mini keyboard as a controller plus an old Korg M1 I may press back into duty as a MIDI controller, or possibly sell and invest in a new full-sized controller keyboard.
What I don't have and want to get is a good set of samples, instruments, loops, patterns, etc. These are mainly for rhythm section, piano, pads, etc. It's only for hobby purposes, nothing professional or live.
I find myself trying to decide which of the following to choose: Reason 10, Sampletank 4 or Kontakt 6. Reason and Kontakt are roughly the same price whereas Sampletank 4 Max is about $100 cheaper until March 5.
I've been leaning towards Reason since its 30-day trial gives me access to the complete set of sounds, loops, patterns, etc. whereas the free versions of Sampletank and Kontakt don't really give me an idea of everything they include (yes, I've checked out the lists of instruments available for download for them).
I'm wondering if I should just pull the trigger on buying Reason since it seems to have everything I need and some interesting possibilities to add as refills (the piano bass and drums refill for example). Or, would I be better off grabbing Sampletank and using it with Reaper. It seems to come with some loops and patterns plus there are lots around the net for free or reasonably priced. Kontakt seems a bit more elusive but some of the comments I've read around the net seem to indicate it sounds better than Sampletank.
Obviously this is a Reason forum so I guess I'm looking for your take on why Reason would be a better choice for me. Thanks
Trying to decide: Reason, Sampletank or Kontakt
Kontact's bundled content probably isn't going to get you to where you want to be. If you're going to pick up Kontact, I'd suggest instead picking up a copy of Komplete used (you can get it on KVR) instead of Kontact by itself.
If you like Reaper and it does what you need, then Komplete is a good bet. If you prefer the workflow of Reason then it comes with all the content you need as well, although then you can only use it inside of Reason. By the way, on Reverb.com right now you can get Reason 10 and Arturia V6 Collection for $399 total. . . that's a steal.
Haven't tried Sampletank but have heard mixed reviews on it.
If you like Reaper and it does what you need, then Komplete is a good bet. If you prefer the workflow of Reason then it comes with all the content you need as well, although then you can only use it inside of Reason. By the way, on Reverb.com right now you can get Reason 10 and Arturia V6 Collection for $399 total. . . that's a steal.
Haven't tried Sampletank but have heard mixed reviews on it.
Then don't get Reason if you're mainly seeking this. It's Reason's weakness. If you get Reason, you're still going to be looking for a good piano because the pianos that come with Reason are weak. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise, TRUST ME. Same goes for the multisampled acoustic instruments. There are no REs or refills that will cover those bases.
You already have a DAW. Of the choices you mentioned, and if you just want to get one thing and be done with. it, I would get Sampletank 4 Max. Otherwise I would get Kontakt 6 and purchase some 3rd party libraries because as it comes, it is too bare bones to recommend.
So I just want to repeat - do NOT get Reason expecting it contains high quality pianos or instruments. It does not. Someone will probably try to convince you it does, and then will probably tell you to get the Rhythm Combo bundle and a cheap copy of Reason Pianos. Don't do it. Do not waste your time or money. There are better VST alternatives, and you'll be satisfied with the stuff that comes with Sampletank 4. They might also tell you to get Reason and then subscribe to some cheap and custom RE plan so that you can try out your options. Don't do that either.
EDIT: I feel I should add I've been using Reason since version 2.
The question would be do you like using midi with Reaper's sequencer? For me personally I don't care for the workflow of Reaper.
If you do like the workflow of midi in Reaper, then I would agree with hurricane that Sampletank 4 Max is your best bet. It'll have all the sounds you could need.
If you don't like working in Reaper, then Reason would be the way to go, but keep in mind that acoustic instruments aren't it's strong point so you'll need to supplement that with VSTs. As a hobbyist you may be able to get by with refills or RE but they all fall short of what's available as a VST as far as acoustic instruments go.
Kontakt by itself on the other hand is not worth it. Komplete standard is a much better deal for a just little bit more, but you won't use half the content it comes with.
If you do like the workflow of midi in Reaper, then I would agree with hurricane that Sampletank 4 Max is your best bet. It'll have all the sounds you could need.
If you don't like working in Reaper, then Reason would be the way to go, but keep in mind that acoustic instruments aren't it's strong point so you'll need to supplement that with VSTs. As a hobbyist you may be able to get by with refills or RE but they all fall short of what's available as a VST as far as acoustic instruments go.
Kontakt by itself on the other hand is not worth it. Komplete standard is a much better deal for a just little bit more, but you won't use half the content it comes with.
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MarkTarlton
- Posts: 795
- Joined: 15 Jan 2015
- Location: Santa Rosa, CA
I agree with hurricane as far as reason lacking on sample banks compared to the other options, on the other hand if you like to mess around with CV and programming your own synth sounds, than Reason is the way to go. the samplers in Reason are very outdated. I am also a user since 2002 
Definitely don't do Kontakt, in my option. It's a pretty boring sampler - the fun comes only when you purchase some of the sample libraries out there, and that can get expensive.
If you do like NativeInstruments stuff, get Komplete - much better than just Kontakt on its own. The lower tiers of Komplete are affordable, you don't need the top tier.
SampleTank is OK if you want an all-in-one set of sounds. I used to have SampleTank2 - the sounds are nice (lots of reverb for some reason, if you like that). Personally, I like Falcon better nowadays, since Falcon focuses a bit more on samples of retro hardware. (Falcon is a sampler, much like SampleTank).
But hey, this is a Reason forum, so... Obviously, we're all going to recommend Reason. Reason is wildly different than the two other options you listed, and I think it's not just because it's a DAW. It's really a *playground* for experimentation, and layering, and wiring stuff together. You start with a simple sound, and stack-up effects, automate some knobs, etc.
If you like playing around with sound, I can't recommend Reason enough. For some people though, Reason isn't always right. (e.g. if you don't want to learn how to get around Reason, it's probably not worth it)
If you do like NativeInstruments stuff, get Komplete - much better than just Kontakt on its own. The lower tiers of Komplete are affordable, you don't need the top tier.
SampleTank is OK if you want an all-in-one set of sounds. I used to have SampleTank2 - the sounds are nice (lots of reverb for some reason, if you like that). Personally, I like Falcon better nowadays, since Falcon focuses a bit more on samples of retro hardware. (Falcon is a sampler, much like SampleTank).
But hey, this is a Reason forum, so... Obviously, we're all going to recommend Reason.
Reason is wildly different than the two other options you listed, and I think it's not just because it's a DAW. It's really a *playground* for experimentation, and layering, and wiring stuff together. You start with a simple sound, and stack-up effects, automate some knobs, etc.If you like playing around with sound, I can't recommend Reason enough. For some people though, Reason isn't always right. (e.g. if you don't want to learn how to get around Reason, it's probably not worth it)
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KarmaFunkarma
- Posts: 37
- Joined: 20 Jul 2018
First off, let me say that I own and use all of the software you mention.
Cutting to the chase and keeping in mind you are mostly coming from an audio recording perspective where you'll be adding in midi, loops, etc., I'd suggest the following.
- Reapaer as your DAW. It's so good and amazingly efficient. Runs anything you throw at it like a champ.
- Kontakt for instruments. Super efficient, sounds fantastic and the included libraries can keep you busy for a long time. Over time, you can expand with free and paid libraries. Solid investment.
- **addition** Synthmaster Player for more synth sounds. $29 for lots of excellent synth presets (https://www.kv331audio.com/synthmasterplayer.aspx)
- **addition** Loopcloud - You can buy loops when you want to use them one at a time specifically for the music you are creating. Far better than buying loop collections where you end up using only part of what you paid for. (https://www.loopcloud.net/)
I know this is a Reason forum, and I have loved/owned Reason since it was introduced, but staying inside of one DAW (Reaper) is better workflow. Rewire works great for integrating the two, but I advocate keeping things simple so you are thinking about music instead of software.
Sampletank is good, but it just sounds and feels kind of lifeless to me. It's like eating a dry turkey sandwich for lunch... does what it's supposed to do but that's about all I can say for it.
Good luck with your decision.
Cutting to the chase and keeping in mind you are mostly coming from an audio recording perspective where you'll be adding in midi, loops, etc., I'd suggest the following.
- Reapaer as your DAW. It's so good and amazingly efficient. Runs anything you throw at it like a champ.
- Kontakt for instruments. Super efficient, sounds fantastic and the included libraries can keep you busy for a long time. Over time, you can expand with free and paid libraries. Solid investment.
- **addition** Synthmaster Player for more synth sounds. $29 for lots of excellent synth presets (https://www.kv331audio.com/synthmasterplayer.aspx)
- **addition** Loopcloud - You can buy loops when you want to use them one at a time specifically for the music you are creating. Far better than buying loop collections where you end up using only part of what you paid for. (https://www.loopcloud.net/)
I know this is a Reason forum, and I have loved/owned Reason since it was introduced, but staying inside of one DAW (Reaper) is better workflow. Rewire works great for integrating the two, but I advocate keeping things simple so you are thinking about music instead of software.
Sampletank is good, but it just sounds and feels kind of lifeless to me. It's like eating a dry turkey sandwich for lunch... does what it's supposed to do but that's about all I can say for it.
Good luck with your decision.
Considering you said "It's only for hobby purposes, nothing professional or live. " ... Then you can completely disregard just about everything Hurricane said regarding the instruments and pianos in Reason. You'd have to be a *very* hardnosed/nitpicking perfectionist to find fault with Reason Pianos or just about any of the other instruments included. I'm not trying to hurl insults, just saying that I don't find his harsh criticism remotely warranted, especially for a recommendation to a hobbyist such as yourself. I have Reason Pianos and Arturia V Collection, so I have compared the two, and I don't find myself preferring one over the other. Some instruments are better than others, I'll admit: Radical Keys is a tad weak IMO, but still workable. Reason comes with lots of stuff to get you going and the RE's available fill all the gaps, IMO. I don't even use VSTs anymore, except for the drums, explained below.
If you're looking for MIDI patterns/loops, EZDrummer is pretty good. I found the mixing/effect limitations to be frustrating, however and eventually bought its big brother, SD3. But EZD is an awesome drum resource if that's what you're looking for. Of course, I bought SD3 and like a month later, Reason released the Reason Drum Kits RE. Oh well.
I had Sampletank 2 and I thought it sucked. Hard. Maybe the newer version is significantly better than its predecessor? IDK. Arturia V Collection is more expensive but absolutely without a doubt blows it away. I was amazed by how bad Sampletank 2 sucked.
Since you're considering Reason, why not do the 30 day trial? Make sure you devote enough time to really investigate its strengths and weaknesses. Then you can make an educated decision based on your own experience.
If you're looking for MIDI patterns/loops, EZDrummer is pretty good. I found the mixing/effect limitations to be frustrating, however and eventually bought its big brother, SD3. But EZD is an awesome drum resource if that's what you're looking for. Of course, I bought SD3 and like a month later, Reason released the Reason Drum Kits RE. Oh well.
I had Sampletank 2 and I thought it sucked. Hard. Maybe the newer version is significantly better than its predecessor? IDK. Arturia V Collection is more expensive but absolutely without a doubt blows it away. I was amazed by how bad Sampletank 2 sucked.
Since you're considering Reason, why not do the 30 day trial? Make sure you devote enough time to really investigate its strengths and weaknesses. Then you can make an educated decision based on your own experience.
You could pick up a 2nd hand copy of Reason 10 on somewhere like kvr's sell and buy forum or check out Reason Intro specs.
The savings would leave some cash for sampler instruments.
Reason is very suitable to provide a 'backing band' IMO. The Dr Octorex Player has tons of material ready to go and makes getting e.g. drums into your song so simple.
The 30 day trial would give you time to sort a 2nd hand copy.
The savings would leave some cash for sampler instruments.
Reason is very suitable to provide a 'backing band' IMO. The Dr Octorex Player has tons of material ready to go and makes getting e.g. drums into your song so simple.
The 30 day trial would give you time to sort a 2nd hand copy.
If all you've used is Reason, and you've never tried anything outside of Reason ever, then I can see how you could say that and actually believe it.
So you want him to buy Reason for $299, then have him buy Reason Pianos for $129, and THEN EZ Drummer for $179. (Or should he make the same mistake you did and buy SD3 first for $419?)
And which REs fill his acoustic instrument needs? The A-List instruments? The bundle is $245. Each instrument is $99.
Sampletank 4 MAX has everything he wants and is only $199.
I agree with hurricane. If you're after acoustic instruments, then Reason stock isn't going to get you there. Investing in RE's that you can only use in Reason doesn't make sense nowadays in my humble opinion.
Your best bet is to pick up a used copy of Komplete. It's kind of like a fundamental "must have" even if you only use 20% of it.
Another option is to pick up Halion Sonic, which is kind of like the Motif soundset. Includes some decent pianos.
Your best bet is to pick up a used copy of Komplete. It's kind of like a fundamental "must have" even if you only use 20% of it.
Another option is to pick up Halion Sonic, which is kind of like the Motif soundset. Includes some decent pianos.
I think it's worth clarifying Sampletank 4 is a VERY different thing than Sampletank 2 (which was horrible).
It seems you took offense to my reply. That wasn't my intention.
Did you miss the part where he clearly stated "It's only for hobby purposes, nothing professional or live."? Or are you just looking to fight? Reason Pianos is more than workable for any hobbyist.
I don't "want" him to do anything. I'm merely offering suggestions. Chill the fuck out, guy.
He clearly stated " These are mainly for rhythm section, piano, pads, etc". You seem to think Reason is lacking in its rhythm section, piano and pads. And I'm really not sure how you could come to that conclusion.
Did you miss the part where I compared it to Arturia V Collection?
Did you miss the part where he clearly stated "It's only for hobby purposes, nothing professional or live."? Or are you just looking to fight? Reason Pianos is more than workable for any hobbyist.
Have you used SD3? I'd hardly call it a "mistake" to buy SD3. I'm sure SD3 blows RDK away, but still I'm a cheapskate and RDK might have caused me to postpone buying SD3. Maybe.
I don't "want" him to do anything. I'm merely offering suggestions. Chill the fuck out, guy.
Please explain where he said he needed acoustic instruments.
He clearly stated " These are mainly for rhythm section, piano, pads, etc". You seem to think Reason is lacking in its rhythm section, piano and pads. And I'm really not sure how you could come to that conclusion.
Cool. Maybe he should try it. I don't actually care what he does, I just came here to offer suggestions and provide some needed perspective to counter your very negative opinion of... basically everything Reason, it seems.
In that case, dude should definitely give it a try. Sampletank 2 was indeed horrible. Unlike some commenters I don't actually care what he does. But Reason has a 30 day trial, so why not try it for 30 days? If he hates it, he hates it and moves on. Doesn't affect me.
I believe he's already used or is using the trial. The issue is Sample Tank and Kontakt don't have the same level of demo hence the request for opinions.
I've been leaning towards Reason since its 30-day trial gives me access to the complete set of sounds, loops, patterns, etc. whereas the free versions of Sampletank and Kontakt don't really give me an idea of everything they include (yes, I've checked out the lists of instruments available for download for them).
Looks like you're the only one taking offense here, pal.
And he didn't specifically say the word "acoustic", but if you paid attention he said:
"What I don't have and want to get is a good set of samples, instruments, loops, patterns, etc. These are mainly for rhythm section, piano, pads, etc."
That means keys (pianos, organs, electric pianos), bass (acoustic, electric), guitars (acoustic, electric) and drums. Yes, Reason has all those, but so does the casio home keyboard my 8 year old niece uses.
And just because he's a hobbyist and not using this for professional use (isn't that the majority of us here on this board?), it doesn't mean he has to settle for Reason's factory soundbank.
I'm not even a Sampletank fan - I prefer the instruments in Halion 6.
In my opinion, you shouldn't let your Reason pride interfere with giving this guy some sensible advice.
I'm sorry you are so full of yourself that we can't simply fucking disagree on these differences of opinion. I should have known ahead of time that yours is the only opinion that matters.
Please OP just do everything hurricane tells you to do. Anyone with a differing opinion/suggestion is obviously wrong.
We finally agree on something.sublunar wrote: ↑28 Feb 2019
I'm sorry you are so full of yourself that we can't simply fucking disagree on these differences of opinion. I should have known ahead of time that yours is the only opinion that matters.
Please OP just do everything hurricane tells you to do. Anyone with a differing opinion/suggestion is obviously wrong.
Indeed, you seem very much in love with yourself, this much we can agree on.
You assumed that OP, as a guitarist, has any need for guitar samplers and other acoustic instruments and ran with it without actually asking him/her.
OP could be looking for electronic varieties of rhythm section drums/bass/pads/synths. In that case, Reason has definitely got him covered. How many acoustic pads are there anyway? Should I follow your lead and assume he's looking for hyper realistic symphonic samplers without asking? Because the only obvious acoustic pads I can think of would be symphonic varieties that must mean he wants symphonic samplers. Right? Must be.
You seem to have very strong feelings about what OP decides to do. I personally don't care what he does. I'm merely offering a different opinion/suggestions.
Reason Pianos is, in fact, more than sufficient for any hobbyist regardless of your overbearing opinion on the matter. Unless someone is nitpicking every nuance and comparing it to a physical piano or the latest version of a high end standalone sampler then they're not going to find faults with it as a hobbyist. It sounds like a piano. It sounds good. It doesn't have to sound better than every other one on the market. It just has to sound good and be usable. And that, it is.
And you seem to have VERY strong feelings about my opinions and suggestions. Just know that I am giggling here knowing that I drive you nucking futs.
In that case, you are giggling to yourself about more assumptions you've made that are not based on reality. So uh.. giggle away my dude.
+1
Reason sample libraries are outdated and nasty. Kontakt is top notch, it's worldwide standard. Try to find any NI Komplete bundle and then jump on this track.
Or maybe try something different, just for fun - NI Maschine
https://www.native-instruments.com/en/p ... /maschine/
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