2003/2004 users - would you come back

[gminorcoles]

Hi,
I spent a couple of years immersed in reason for several hours a day in 2003 and 2004. I made a lot of songs, I didn’t have a keyboard, I just arranged things in midi and the sequencers. It was painstaking but reason seemed to make everything easy. It hid the details from me, I didn’t know what vsts were, didn’t know latency was an issue, didn’t really ever bump up against cpu or other limits. I had no idea how easy I had it.

I recently came back to making electronic but now also as a piano student so I have s slightly different way of working. I bought reaper, Logic Pro x, for studio, just to try them out. I bought the Arturia v collection of soft synths. I had to buy a new Mac mini and a new audio interface. I bought a Roland a-70 midi controller.

It’s all really complicated, and it does not just work. Cpu, latency, crashing, complicated workflows.

Should I start again with reason? It looks like even reason has now become really complicated. Should i leave my old easy but slow way of working behind? Is reason too much of a toy? I don’t mean that in a negative way. I am just not sure if I was just inexperienced back then. So I am curious if anyone else feels that reason can accommodate their growth as a musician over the long term.

[Loque]

Back in that time I did not understood what ADSR meant and today I want a full customizable envelope curve, modifiable from a uber big mod matrix and CV Ins, which i can route everywhere including to CV Outs. The times when i was glad just a sound came out of my computer is over...

My knowledge changed and so did my expectations and tg Reason did too. And there is more than just ADSR...

[dan_g]

hi,

in my opinion. if you have used reason before and liked the way it worke, reason 10 will be a revelation for you. you still can do it the oldschool way if you want. but then when you open up, reason gives you so much more.

i would never call reason a "Toy". for me its the most powerful daw in its current form. maybe i'm biased a bit because i started with reason back in the day. other daws feel very strange for me because i instantly miss the "Tab-Key" and the routing capabilities.

thats my few words as a hobbyist

daniel

[PhillipOrdonez]

Still here.

Reason is as simple or as complex as you want it to be. Why not trial it for a month and see how you feel about it now?

[dioxide]

Well you can work the way you used to, with the advantage of adding on anything extra you need. Using Reason used to mean lots of workarounds and Combinator trickery. Most of this isn't needed now, as Reason has developed and REs have expanded what it can do.

[craven]

never left reason and while it took a long time to become what it is now, what matters is that it did! 10 came with Europa and Grain, which make Reason a modern workstation in terms of synth and fx. Now pls bring on better block features!

[Skimrok]

I used it back then I’m back so yes! I was using it back in 2002-2005 then feel off all together trying to make music, there is a lot which is similar but it’s a total different bigger beast now but the dynamics is similar, I’m no pro far from it but that’s my view good luck

[KirkMarkarian]

2002 - 2005 / on and off throughout the years until 2015, then back on full-force. Reason is an amazing software, does amazing things, and is so much like the studio classes I took back in community college where we all became gear monkeys. We learned to plug things in and out, routing, etc. We learned in the exact same way Reason is designed. Very useful on my end. Like others have said, download the demo and try it out to see if it still fits your way of working.

[EdGrip]

Reason's just as capable as the next DAW, it just depends on if you like (most of) its workflow.
I think simple things can sometimes be slightly more fiddly to achieve in Reason, but complicated/weird/experimental things are easier.

Try out lots of DAWs. See what you connect with! They've all come on light years since 2003.

[mcatalao]

Should I start again with reason? It looks like even reason has now become really complicated. Should i leave my old easy but slow way of working behind? Is reason too much of a toy? I don’t mean that in a negative way. I am just not sure if I was just inexperienced back then. So I am curious if anyone else feels that reason can accommodate their growth as a musician over the long term.

Definitely! If you liked reason in the past you will find it an amazing creative tool now.

As for if it is complicated, imho it depends of the depth of your usage scenarios. The biggest difference between how reason and other DAWS work is the rack and the completely free routing possibilities.

But if you just take a reason device into the rack or the sequencer, reason already does a lot of that routing (reason will automatically create a new mixer channel, route the device to the mixer and back, and as soon as you start playing you get sound). Whereas in the old reason, auto routing didn't work as well. Reason also has a good degree of intelligence routing stuff dependent of the order of the stuff you connect. Oh and another thing i really like is that the basic devices of a mix, are already available in the ssl console and they are not separated devices. The ssl channel strip, already has EQ, Comp and gate. But adding sends and inserts to these is also very easy. So mixing in reason imho, is probably the most accurate experience to mixing in a real console (specially if you have a surface that allows you to control every aspect of the mixer).

And it doesn't stop here, because a lot of other stuff changed too. Racks can now be vertical and horizontal. Sampling can be done in real time in a very streamlined way. You can timestretch and pitch change a full project with some clicks (with a lot of quality). And there are at least 3 ways to tune a vocal recording.

What is overwhelming at this point is the amount of Rack Extensions and the amount of functionality that was added since Reason 6. Reason has come to be a full fledged DAW as in, the virtual studio that had a midi sequencer, and a bunch of instruments and devices, all of a sudden got audio recording, then a couple of years after got this type of proprietary plugin called rack extensions, then a bunch of years later, got VST's. So the amount of stuff you can do with all these stuff is overwhelming to someone who new the old versions of reason. And you have to explore and select the stuff that applies to what you want to do with Reason.

[hurricane]

It’s all really complicated, and it does not just work. Cpu, latency, crashing, complicated workflows.

Should I start again with reason? It looks like even reason has now become really complicated.

If everything is "complicated" to you, then maybe you should have more patience and learn to use what you already have. Sounds like if you were to pick up Reason again, you would have the same issues you are having now. A lot of people have a setup similar to yours, and they get by just fine. I have a mac mini, Logic Pro, a midi controller, and tons of audio units. I don't see how these things are making you "slow". I have no issues.

So, you can get Reason again, but I bet you're going to have similar problems. Because reading in between the lines, I can tell it's not the apps or gear.

And I mean this in a nice way, lol.

[Heigen5]

Hi,
I spent a couple of years immersed in reason for several hours a day in 2003 and 2004. I made a lot of songs, I didn’t have a keyboard, I just arranged things in midi and the sequencers. It was painstaking but reason seemed to make everything easy. It hid the details from me, I didn’t know what vsts were, didn’t know latency was an issue, didn’t really ever bump up against cpu or other limits. I had no idea how easy I had it.

I recently came back to making electronic but now also as a piano student so I have s slightly different way of working. I bought reaper, Logic Pro x, for studio, just to try them out. I bought the Arturia v collection of soft synths. I had to buy a new Mac mini and a new audio interface. I bought a Roland a-70 midi controller.

It’s all really complicated, and it does not just work. Cpu, latency, crashing, complicated workflows.

Should I start again with reason? It looks like even reason has now become really complicated. Should i leave my old easy but slow way of working behind? Is reason too much of a toy? I don’t mean that in a negative way. I am just not sure if I was just inexperienced back then. So I am curious if anyone else feels that reason can accommodate their growth as a musician over the long term.

If you loved Reason back then, you'd like it now even more, as there's not that many things that you can't do in it. Sure, you'd need to learn all the new tools that have been added since then, but I'd go for it. The beginning could turn out bit overwhelming, but soonish you'd just understand, that most tools are similar, so learning one device makes you understand the rest as well.

And all the new features are all explained over youtube. I think you'd get a rocket-launch into it if you'd check them out. The reason why Reason is a choice for me, is the architecture + nowdays all the endless possibilities sound-wise. And well, um... this app is just so cute n sexy. By the way, I have tried to love the other DAWs, but I just can't as Reason inspires me million times more than the rest.

Check out the tutorials, check the manual, ask a question here over ReasonTalk and go for it!

[gminorcoles]

It’s all really complicated, and it does not just work. Cpu, latency, crashing, complicated workflows.

Should I start again with reason? It looks like even reason has now become really complicated.

If everything is "complicated" to you, then maybe you should have more patience and learn to use what you already have. Sounds like if you were to pick up Reason again, you would have the same issues you are having now. A lot of people have a setup similar to yours, and they get by just fine. I have a mac mini, Logic Pro, a midi controller, and tons of audio units. I don't see how these things are making you "slow". I have no issues.

So, you can get Reason again, but I bet you're going to have similar problems. Because reading in between the lines, I can tell it's not the apps or gear.

And I mean this in a nice way, lol.

I think you misunderstood my post. I find the DAW centric vst way of doing things relatively cumbersome compared to how productive I used to be in Reason. I am curious what very experienced users still find to be superior about reason? Has it outgrown it’s early, focused magic? Believe me I am not confusing gear with music this is why I mentioned thst in the old days I didn’t even have a keyboard just the piano roll and automation.

[esselfortium]

I've been here since 2003 and I'm still using Reason as my DAW of choice. In general I'd say it's remained a really nice self-contained music making system with a solid built-in toolset (the pitch editor in Reason 9 and the new synths in Reason 10 added a lot especially, IMO!) but now with infinitely more expandability than before in the form of VST and rack extension plugins.

There might be a bit of a learning curve coming from the early versions, as things work a bit differently now since the big mixer was added in Reason 6. After I got over my initial feelings of stubbornness and intimidation about using the new mixer, though, I've found it's improved my workflow a lot and made my life easier, so it's worth getting the hang of.

[hurricane]

Asking this question on a pro-Reason forum is going to present you with pro-Reason answers, as you can see by ALL the answers above. We're Reason fans - yes it's great, go buy it, blah blah blah. But you want the simplicity of the Reason from 15 years ago and that's what - Reason 2.5/3.0? If you're perplexed by the "complexity" of right clicking and loading an audio unit in Logic, hitting record, and then playing, then I don't know how much more simple you think the workflow in Reason 10 is going to be.

You're having trouble with the widely used Arturia suite - that's surprising because you really just have to install them and you're done messing with the most complex part. You are aware that you can use VSTs in Reason 10, right? And you are aware that VSTs, at the current moment, are experiencing some performance issues right? Well they work perfectly in Logic and Reaper (at least the Arturia stuff does). And if you choose to not use VSTs (which means you have to tell Reason not to scan them - bam there's more complexity for you) then you'll have way more factory devices and effects to work with, along with the brand new SSL mixer and all the options that brings to the table.

Reason 10 has transformed into something more DAW-like but it has still retained it's Reasony nature. However, it's NOT 2.5, and you won't pick it up and start flying around it like you did in the old days. You're going to have growing pains, like you did in Logic and Reaper, but when you're faced with Reason's complexities are you going to give up and start looking for something else? Because YES you can pump out some pro tracks in Reason and with Reason's own factory synths and effects too. I personally don't believe that was the case with 2.5, although people definitely tried. But Reason has better synths and effects now. It has probably the best mixer of any DAW. The workflow is as quick as ever, but this is coming from someone who has grown with it and is used to it. For you? It's going to take time. And if you couldn't make Logic and a few audio units work on a mac mini, then I doubt Reason 10 is going to make it much easier for you - unless you actually put in the effort to try and learn it inside and out. And not get frustrated by the VST issues. And not get frustrated with the whole Rack extension/authorizer thing. And then there's the RE shop and synchronizing Reason with your account. And then RE subscriptions. And the enormous amount of REs to choose from.

When you spoke about your current setup, you described it as:

"It’s all really complicated, and it does not just work. Cpu, latency, crashing, complicated workflows."

I've experienced all those things - except for latency issues - in Reason 10. And I've been using Reason since V2 and consider myself an advanced user. The 'complicated workflows" part came from some unintuitive REs that forced me to read the manual and some VST3 plugins that required workarounds to use in Reason. But you can choose to not use third party REs and VSTs to give you a more retro feeling and to simplify things.

If I were you, I would learn Logic since you already own it. Troubleshoot your issues, because they CAN be fixed. Using Logic myself, I have no idea what you're doing that you consider "complicated". You should have a basic understanding of how things work in Logic before you give up on it and move to Reason 10. Doesn't sound to me like you have that?

https://www.propellerheads.com/en/reason/tryreason

[MannequinRaces]

If you liked Reason back in the day it’s the same thing with more bells and whistles. I’ve been a user since R4 and the magic is still there. As long as you’re not wanting to score music to film (no video support) it can be done in Reason. At this point I feel I have almost all of the tools I need and that when it comes to making music and growing as a musician Reason isn’t the one holding me back, it’s my skills that need worked on.

[moneykube]

As long as you’re not wanting to score music to film (no video support) it can be done in Reason.

just saw this... speaking of reason and video... anyone try it yet?
https://vidplayvst.com/downloads.htm
if it works... it would make vst awesome for me... use manly racks now.

[VidPlayVST]

As long as you’re not wanting to score music to film (no video support) it can be done in Reason.

just saw this... speaking of reason and video... anyone try it yet?
https://vidplayvst.com/downloads.htm
if it works... it would make vst awesome for me... use manly racks now.

Skip to about 3:30 to see VidPlayVST in use

[MannequinRaces]

just saw this... speaking of reason and video... anyone try it yet?
https://vidplayvst.com/downloads.htm
if it works... it would make vst awesome for me... use manly racks now.

Skip to about 3:30 to see VidPlayVST in use

Cool. I had no idea this existed. This should at least make some people happy.

[bitley]

Get a Mac - used works fine too

Never ever worry more about audio glitches.

[KirkMarkarian]

If you liked Reason back in the day it’s the same thing with more bells and whistles. I’ve been a user since R4 and the magic is still there. As long as you’re not wanting to score music to film (no video support) it can be done in Reason. At this point I feel I have almost all of the tools I need and that when it comes to making music and growing as a musician Reason isn’t the one holding me back, it’s my skills that need worked on.

Even without video support, you can still score music to film with it. You just gotta do it the hard way, with pencil and paper

Talk to the director, jot down times that they want something to happen on the audio end and with what they want to emphasize, and make it happen. No, it's not easy. Yep, you'll do it a few times. It isn't impossible. it's a different mind-set for sure, but if you've got the patience and the eye to make it happen, it'll happen.

I've also used a couple of apps that seemed to work, ReSync being one of them. It was alright, but on my old Mac Mini, there is definitely latency, so you have to get into the video with an actual editor and then nail it down timing-wise, getting the timing right down to the millisecond.

[MannequinRaces]

If you liked Reason back in the day it’s the same thing with more bells and whistles. I’ve been a user since R4 and the magic is still there. As long as you’re not wanting to score music to film (no video support) it can be done in Reason. At this point I feel I have almost all of the tools I need and that when it comes to making music and growing as a musician Reason isn’t the one holding me back, it’s my skills that need worked on.

Even without video support, you can still score music to film with it. You just gotta do it the hard way, with pencil and paper

Talk to the director, jot down times that they want something to happen on the audio end and with what they want to emphasize, and make it happen. No, it's not easy. Yep, you'll do it a few times. It isn't impossible. it's a different mind-set for sure, but if you've got the patience and the eye to make it happen, it'll happen.

I've also used a couple of apps that seemed to work, ReSync being one of them. It was alright, but on my old Mac Mini, there is definitely latency, so you have to get into the video with an actual editor and then nail it down timing-wise, getting the timing right down to the millisecond.

That sounds unbearable, lol. Won't most directors scoff at that idea?

[KirkMarkarian]

That sounds unbearable, lol. Won't most directors scoff at that idea?

Depends on the situation, depends on the person. Always gotta be open to the whims of the client Some people like to actually interact still.

[EnochLight]

Get a Mac - used works fine too

Never ever worry more about audio glitches.

He already has a Mac. He said he bought Logic Pro x in the OP...

[mcatalao]

Skip to about 3:30 to see VidPlayVST in use

Cool. I had no idea this existed. This should at least make some people happy.

I have it.

Works really well and it's not that heavy on the CPU. It has a lot of video decoders too, it will read pretty much whatever you throw at it!