Kong physical modeling of Snares

[raccoonboy]

Not really used the modelled snares much in Kong but heard they are good. At least by 10 years ago's standards, but I don't see much competition regarding this.

I'm away from computer for a week or 2. I'm wondering
1. How do they compare with other physically modelled snares

2. Do you use them and how?

3. What would you do to make it sound more realistic.

Some of my thoughts are mixing with an analogue synth snare/noise source. Analogue compression. Spring verb (if only I could afford a plate). Re-amping and recording through guitar amp. Mixing with parts of a real snare sample. Maybe just the transient or the noise part, I think waves do a snarebuzz vst for free which I think is a sample of the metal part of the snares. Cud maybe use this.

I'm hoping putting this thing through some analogue gear will help it become more realisitic.
Thoughts?

Please don't say 'use a sample'. I'm wanting the flexibility and ease to tune in the sound I need.

Thanks

[Oquasec]

Some Reason users either use those, some actually moved on to doing that in synths.
Some Reason guys actually moved away from that one years ago to make drums in a full synth : /
You can do a hell of a lot with those, but if you want more exact control then you would also move.

[Marco Raaphorst]

I use it sometimes but it sounds too much like a brush hit to me. Not a stick.

[raccoonboy]

Some Reason users either use those, some actually moved on to doing that in synths.
Some Reason guys actually moved away from that one years ago to make drums in a full synth : /
You can do a hell of a lot with those, but if you want more exact control then you would also move.

What would you use as an alternative?
A more modern physical modeling software?
Or FM synthesis?
I've not got a whole lot of experience with FM but wud like to learn.
Any particular one you know which is good for snares but not rocket science to use?

Chromophone looks like it be cool for modeling and I've heard good results on Zebra 2 but the interface looks horrid

Either way I'd probs do something analogue with the final result. I.e. synth snare to impulse verb re-amped cud be good.

[Oquasec]

I'd use any synth, to do anything.
But the synths inside Kong were specifically limited for that purpose.
You can either stick with that or learn all the synthesis types.

[raccoonboy]

I use it sometimes but it sounds too much like a brush hit to me. Not a stick.

Just had a listen. I do have my laptop with me, but forgot headphones.
Yeah. It sounds pretty brushed to me.. Hmmmm.

[Marco Raaphorst]

I recently did percussion sounds with Europa. It's superb for that.

[raccoonboy]

I recently did percussion sounds with Europa. It's superb for that.

Yeah the metallic options sound dead cool.
Unfortunately I'm on Reason 8.

Going to trial this
https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech ... e-2-637882

And see what it sounds like. Got good reviews. As for me to be good enough on FM synths will probably take years.

As far as I recall the section to make things sound metallic in Europa is a filter where you control the harmonics and you make them as far away from in series as possible to make it more metallic. Which makes sense. How can I do this without Europa? Some kind of comb filter?

[Loque]

Going to trial this
https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech ... e-2-637882

And see what it sounds like. Got good reviews. As for me to be good enough on FM synths will probably take years.

It is a very good physical synth which creates several different sounds based on different physical models which can also interact. The snares sound quite good, but i am not sure what exactly you are looking for. A snare is often a combination of different noise sounds and sometimes some sine-bass-sounds with pitch added and than often more processed. I think in the end you still need to creat THAT special snare by yourself.

Are you aware, that even the stuff in Kong is based on physical models and you may also need some additional FX to shape your snare, like Tone, Noise, Rattler, Compressor, Transientshaper, Resonator and maybe RM? Check out this example and turn off the fx and you get the point (on first slot):

fxinkong.zip

(25.56 KiB) Downloaded 59 times

[Loque]

Thanks for forcing me to check out those synth models. I had some fun trying to get more synth sounds out of this physical model. Should have done that much earilier!

[Oquasec]

I can honestly make any Synth sound I want whenever I want.
Was very fond of Reason 5 in particular for learning sound design techniques.

[raccoonboy]

Going to trial this
https://www.musicradar.com/reviews/tech ... e-2-637882

And see what it sounds like. Got good reviews. As for me to be good enough on FM synths will probably take years.

It is a very good physical synth which creates several different sounds based on different physical models which can also interact. The snares sound quite good, but i am not sure what exactly you are looking for. A snare is often a combination of different noise sounds and sometimes some sine-bass-sounds with pitch added and than often more processed. I think in the end you still need to creat THAT special snare by yourself.

Are you aware, that even the stuff in Kong is based on physical models and you may also need some additional FX to shape your snare, like Tone, Noise, Rattler, Compressor, Transientshaper, Resonator and maybe RM? Check out this example and turn off the fx and you get the point (on first slot):
fxinkong.zip

I realise that Kong is physical modeling yes. It isn't versatile enough imo and doesn't sound overly convincing after a quick listen on my latop.

As for synthesising snares. I know how to make snares in the analogue domain. Subtractive synths. It never comes close enough to a real snare for me. I like the sound a lot. But when I need a real snare sound analogue isn't going to cut it.

If someone can make a very accurate real snare where you can barely tell the difference if it's synth or not, then you are a better man than me.

I personally think FM gets a lot closer but I'm not overly clued up on FM.

Will probably give Chromaphone a try. It'll never be 100% but probably the correct realism/versatility rate I'm looking for.

[raccoonboy]

I can honestly make any Synth sound I want whenever I want.

Very good. Give yourself a pat on the back

[Marco Raaphorst]

physical modeling is meant for realistic stuff, so not the electronic sounding stuff. I feel the snare sounds like snare brush though.

[Loque]

It is a very good physical synth which creates several different sounds based on different physical models which can also interact. The snares sound quite good, but i am not sure what exactly you are looking for. A snare is often a combination of different noise sounds and sometimes some sine-bass-sounds with pitch added and than often more processed. I think in the end you still need to creat THAT special snare by yourself.

Are you aware, that even the stuff in Kong is based on physical models and you may also need some additional FX to shape your snare, like Tone, Noise, Rattler, Compressor, Transientshaper, Resonator and maybe RM? Check out this example and turn off the fx and you get the point (on first slot):
fxinkong.zip

I realise that Kong is physical modeling yes. It isn't versatile enough imo and doesn't sound overly convincing after a quick listen on my latop.

As for synthesising snares. I know how to make snares in the analogue domain. Subtractive synths. It never comes close enough to a real snare for me. I like the sound a lot. But when I need a real snare sound analogue isn't going to cut it.

If someone can make a very accurate real snare where you can barely tell the difference if it's synth or not, then you are a better man than me.

I personally think FM gets a lot closer but I'm not overly clued up on FM.

Will probably give Chromaphone a try. It'll never be 100% but probably the correct realism/versatility rate I'm looking for.

I find this tutorial quite good: https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... snare-drum

I just recreated it to hear how it sounds and its quite good and you have a lot of things to tune and you can add more noise, different shapes, envelopes, saturation, overdrive, modulators, metallic echos or other resonators... in each stage. Due i recreated it exactly as it shown in the tutorial, you need Ammo for the Hz-selection and Khs Frequencey-Shifter to shift the frequency.

SOS Basic.zip

(4.92 KiB) Downloaded 57 times

And i read in others, that the attack, body and tail are important to the snare (well, this counts for most sounds ). So chose your attack sound or create one, that clicks, the body with resonating sine or tom like stuff and a noise tail.

[Mich01]

When I use Kong (not to often ;D) I useally add ratler and overdrive to the snare. A bit tweaking here and there gives me a rather snappy snare. Espacially when I turn the snaretension on the module down. The snare sound comes mostly from the ratler.

Greetzzz Michel