Predicting Reason 11’s release date

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fieldframe
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Around the time of Reason 9.5, I put together a history of Reason’s release dates going back to Reason 3: viewtopic.php?p=320600#p320600

As we close out 2018, I thought this might be a good time to look at where we are in Reason 10’s lifecycle and to try to predict when we might expect 11 to come out.

As you may recall, Reason 10 was a surprisingly early release. Not only did it come on the heels of the landmark 9.5, but at 458 days after Reason 9, it was the earliest major version release since version 6, which came only 401 days after Reason 5.

So, where does that put us for Reason 11? While my old post has over a decade of data, the industry has changed since then and it’s likely more representative to limit ourselves to the three most recent versions.

Code: Select all

Version		Date		Days since
10		9/22/2017		458d
9		6/21/2016		630d
8		9/30/2014		518d
Averaging the past three versions of Reason, we could expect 11 to come out around 3/11/19. If 11 were to come out as quickly as 10 did, the date would still be in this year, 12/24/18 – not possible given the revised schedule for 10.3. Conversely, If we use the longest interval, the 630 days between Reason 8 and 9, the very latest we might expect to see Reason 11 is 6/14/19. Given the architectural changes involved in 10.3, later seems more likely for Reason 11, so I'd lean toward the later date rather than the earlier.

In any case, it’s probably safe to say “Q2 2019” for the next major version of Reason, with an emphasis on late Q2. Of course, there's no way to say for sure! The particulars of Reason 11's development might mean a release that is later still. But, based on the math, that's the most likely.
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Loque
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Post 17 Dec 2018

I am not sure on the facts and something changed the last years. We saw cooperation with other devs and content provider and only little changes on Reason itself, except PDC, pitch edit and VST, where VST was started years ago and maybe the technique for pitch edit was bought in (speculation), so PDC was one of the bigger parts, which had required bigger under the hood changes. Actually we are waiting for a deeper architectural change for VST performance and saw experiments with other platforms.

Considering this, i speculate there is something going on under the hood, which we might not see or expect now, which may take time and which they are working on for quite a long time. My feeling says, we might see a first look at end of the year (sale times like BF or xmas) or maybe a few months later around eastern.
:reason: 10, Win10 64Bit.

Gulale
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Post 17 Dec 2018

It really amuses me every single time I see such a thread way back to PH old forum. Before the version we are using stands in two feet people open up a thread speculating about the future. The future is to improve 10. 10 is not even ready you want me to talk about 11. I will talk bout 11 when 10 is good enough to be called 10. :x
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antic604
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Considering the VST performance upgrade is going to be 10.3 and we still should see 10.5 sometime along the line, I wouldn't expect 11 earlier than end Q3 / beginning Q4
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guitfnky
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Post 17 Dec 2018

antic604 wrote:
17 Dec 2018
Considering the VST performance upgrade is going to be 10.3 and we still should see 10.5 sometime along the line, I wouldn't expect 11 earlier than end Q3 / beginning Q4
there’s no reason to necessarily expect a 10.5 version. several major versions have been put out before they reached half-point releases of the prior versions.

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EnochLight
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Post 17 Dec 2018

fieldframe wrote:
17 Dec 2018
Around the time of Reason 9.5, I put together a history of Reason’s release dates going back to Reason 3: viewtopic.php?p=320600#p320600

As we close out 2018, I thought this might be a good time to look at where we are in Reason 10’s lifecycle and to try to predict when we might expect 11 to come out.

As you may recall, Reason 10 was a surprisingly early release. Not only did it come on the heels of the landmark 9.5, but at 458 days after Reason 9, it was the earliest major version release since version 6, which came only 401 days after Reason 5.

So, where does that put us for Reason 11? While my old post has over a decade of data, the industry has changed since then and it’s likely more representative to limit ourselves to the three most recent versions.

Code: Select all

Version		Date		Days since
10		9/22/2017		458d
9		6/21/2016		630d
8		9/30/2014		518d
Averaging the past three versions of Reason, we could expect 11 to come out around 3/11/19. If 11 were to come out as quickly as 10 did, the date would still be in this year, 12/24/18 – not possible given the revised schedule for 10.3. Conversely, If we use the longest interval, the 630 days between Reason 8 and 9, the very latest we might expect to see Reason 11 is 6/14/19. Given the architectural changes involved in 10.3, later seems more likely for Reason 11, so I'd lean toward the later date rather than the earlier.

In any case, it’s probably safe to say “Q2 2019” for the next major version of Reason, with an emphasis on late Q2. Of course, there's no way to say for sure! The particulars of Reason 11's development might mean a release that is later still. But, based on the math, that's the most likely.
Taking into consideration 10.3's VST-performance fix won't appear until (presumably early 2019), I wouldn't expect 11 until late summer/fall 2019 at the earliest.
antic604 wrote:
17 Dec 2018
Considering the VST performance upgrade is going to be 10.3 and we still should see 10.5 sometime along the line, I wouldn't expect 11 earlier than end Q3 / beginning Q4
I totally agree on the estimated time-frame. I don't think there will be a 10.5, though.
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Zac
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Post 17 Dec 2018

I think it is a long way off too.

As software matures I guess it gets harder to give the wow factor to updates.

For me I ask what's missing that is needed?

With Europa and Grain, Reason now cuts the mustard ITB but I guess a new native sampler would be welcome by many.

Improved VST support - tick :thumbs_up:

Support for midi VSTs
VST3 support will be needed at some point
Support for hi res screens

But beyond those it's less what is needed and down to personal preferences. Not much that I couldn't live without. My 1st request would be that the browser is visited again and given the feature updates that are often requested. I know many want a sequencer update too. But I fear it would go the way of the browser (I don't like many aspects of the update).

I read a thread over on kvr praising the Europa VST... a guy quotes some praise and then writes that he just hopes it gets regular updates.. This baffles me. What is he expecting? More patches.? New features? I can understand wanting bug fixes if there are any but beyond that why does a synth have to evolve to become 'all synths'? A lot of the praise is for its focus and usability. Regular updates... Pah :roll:
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antic604
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Post 17 Dec 2018

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selig
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Zac wrote: I read a thread over on kvr praising the Europa VST... a guy quotes some praise and then writes that he just hopes it gets regular updates.. This baffles me. What is he expecting? More patches.? New features? I can understand wanting bug fixes if there are any but beyond that why does a synth have to evolve to become 'all synths'? A lot of the praise is for its focus and usability. Regular updates... Pah :roll:
Well, suggesting any updates can only bring it closer to other synths is also suggesting any updates would lack originality and creativity. That being said, there ARE updates that are fairly generic that do not make a synth more like other synths, like adding more modulation sources or destinations, adding standard “advanced” features like micro tuning, adding more wavetables to an oscillator, etc.

BTW, these are all things recently added to Novation Peak, a hardware synth. Even my LUMIX camera gets fairly regular firmware updates that often add new features and don’t necessarily make it more like other cameras.

I feel that updates for flagship products are getting to be more expected these days. Maybe it’s the iOS mentality where updates are more regular. Or maybe it’s just good old competition, trying to stay ahead of other similar products. Either way, it’s a win for users IMO, no?
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Zac
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Post 17 Dec 2018

selig wrote:
17 Dec 2018
Zac wrote: I read a thread over on kvr praising the Europa VST... a guy quotes some praise and then writes that he just hopes it gets regular updates.. This baffles me. What is he expecting? More patches.? New features? I can understand wanting bug fixes if there are any but beyond that why does a synth have to evolve to become 'all synths'? A lot of the praise is for its focus and usability. Regular updates... Pah :roll:
Well, suggesting any updates can only bring it closer to other synths is also suggesting any updates would lack originality and creativity. That being said, there ARE updates that are fairly generic that do not make a synth more like other synths, like adding more modulation sources or destinations, adding standard “advanced” features like micro tuning, adding more wavetables to an oscillator, etc.

BTW, these are all things recently added to Novation Peak, a hardware synth. Even my LUMIX camera gets fairly regular firmware updates that often add new features and don’t necessarily make it more like other cameras.

I feel that updates for flagship products are getting to be more expected these days. Maybe it’s the iOS mentality where updates are more regular. Or maybe it’s just good old competition, trying to stay ahead of other similar products. Either way, it’s a win for users IMO, no?
:)


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I guess so, but not if it reduces ease of use IMO.
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BananaSkins
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Post 17 Dec 2018

2020

Use, Enjoy and Learn what you've got whilst you've got it! :thumbs_up:

Andy
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Q1 2020.

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ReasonUser
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Post 17 Dec 2018

There is a chance 11 comes out in the spring/summer and the people who choose to stay on 10 will still get the VST performance boost as promised. Rest of the new features reserved for those who choose to upgrade.

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guitfnky
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Post 17 Dec 2018

one thing to keep in mind is that (as Mattias has pointed out a few times), development teams aren’t all focused on one thing at a time. there’s a pretty good likelihood that Props is in full swing working on v11, even now, as work continues on VST performance under 10.3.

I’d be pretty surprised if they don’t release 11 in the first half of 2019. I’d be *really* surprised if it doesn’t come until 2020.

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guitfnky
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Post 17 Dec 2018

ReasonUser wrote:
17 Dec 2018
There is a chance 11 comes out in the spring/summer and the people who choose to stay on 10 will still get the VST performance boost as promised. Rest of the new features reserved for those who choose to upgrade.
version 10 users will get the VST performance update (10.3) no matter what. point updates are always free. :)

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Loque
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Post 17 Dec 2018

guitfnky wrote:
17 Dec 2018
ReasonUser wrote:
17 Dec 2018
There is a chance 11 comes out in the spring/summer and the people who choose to stay on 10 will still get the VST performance boost as promised. Rest of the new features reserved for those who choose to upgrade.
version 10 users will get the VST performance update (10.3) no matter what. point updates are always free. :)
In the end its just a number ;-)
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daisky
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Personally, I think 2020 should be when it comes out. It is too soon otherwise given that they are still putting out the fires from 9.5 and 10.

This will be an easy decision for me. If they modernize the resolution and it looks pretty on 4k screens (like Arturia did with their V collection) then it's an instant buy for me even if that is the only new thing they add. If they don't, no matter what other new features there are, I will not even consider it.

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Loque
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Post 17 Dec 2018

daisky wrote:
17 Dec 2018
Personally, I think 2020 should be when it comes out. It is too soon otherwise given that they are still putting out the fires from 9.5 and 10.

This will be an easy decision for me. If they modernize the resolution and it looks pretty on 4k screens (like Arturia did with their V collection) then it's an instant buy for me even if that is the only new thing they add. If they don't, no matter what other new features there are, I will not even consider it.
I just bought AAS String Studio and thought that thing looks very tiny on my Full HD and the GUI is not scalable. How does that look on a 4k display? Guess a lot of vendors need to implement that GUI scaling thing soon.
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fieldframe
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Post 17 Dec 2018

guitfnky wrote:
17 Dec 2018
one thing to keep in mind is that (as Mattias has pointed out a few times), development teams aren’t all focused on one thing at a time. there’s a pretty good likelihood that Props is in full swing working on v11, even now, as work continues on VST performance under 10.3.

I’d be pretty surprised if they don’t release 11 in the first half of 2019. I’d be *really* surprised if it doesn’t come until 2020.
Yeah. Assuming PH uses Git, they probably have a number of different branches that different teams are working on right now, one of which is the big core rewrite, while several other branches are Reason 11 features (and I would imagine each bundled RE like Europa has its own repo).

At least I hope people don't think Reason 10 was developed entirely within a four-month period between 9.5 and the 10.0 announcement. :)
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Creativemind
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Post 17 Dec 2018

BananaSkins wrote:
17 Dec 2018
2020

Use, Enjoy and Learn what you've got whilst you've got it! :thumbs_up:
LMAO!

I was gonna say June / July next year but there's the VST optimisation version which I predict Feb 2019. Then I'm hoping for a 10.5 in say, April. It'll then be more likely July / August for 11.
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chimp_spanner
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Who knows! I think there'll be a 10.5. It was kind of alluded to in the 10.2 release that this was just the start and there were other things they were working on that they wanted to deliver on over the coming year (if I'm remembering correctly that is!). So I think it's likely we'll see that before 11. Whether it will be paid or not I don't know. Cubase has had paid .5 updates (the last one was awful IMO) so it wouldn't be unprecedented. Of course we'll have to way up whether we want to spend on .5 and spend again on 11, or just wait until 11 and get everything included in .5 also.

But yeah I agree with Bananaskins. Setting asides the things that we really do need, there's always stuff to learn and new things to try out. I recently finished a 3.5 hour guide to Reason 10 for Groove 3 and even though I work with it every day, I found out plenty of new/useful things. Again, not excusing what's missing. But what's there at the moment is still pretty awesome if you ask me!

Either way, really looking forward to 10.3 in January. I'm working with VST so much these days, and my laptop is absolutely screaming for mercy haha.
Enjoy!

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scratchnsnifff
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Loque wrote:
17 Dec 2018
I am not sure on the facts and something changed the last years. We saw cooperation with other devs and content provider and only little changes on Reason itself, except PDC, pitch edit and VST, where VST was started years ago and maybe the technique for pitch edit was bought in (speculation), so PDC was one of the bigger parts, which had required bigger under the hood changes. Actually we are waiting for a deeper architectural change for VST performance and saw experiments with other platforms.

Considering this, i speculate there is something going on under the hood, which we might not see or expect now, which may take time and which they are working on for quite a long time. My feeling says, we might see a first look at end of the year (sale times like BF or xmas) or maybe a few months later around eastern.
You make a very fair point about the possibility of the props having a long time worked on project that’s deals with the core of Reason.

Judging by that video that was released about the props programming rack extensions, I’d be willing to bet that they do having a big update in the works

I’m going to guess that one of the next few major updates will be the graphics update, or a decent overhaul of midi controls like scaling velocity as well as automation points and adding curves etc. that’s literally a wild guess though
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scratchnsnifff
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Post 17 Dec 2018

Gulale wrote:
17 Dec 2018
It really amuses me every single time I see such a thread way back to PH old forum. Before the version we are using stands in two feet people open up a thread speculating about the future. The future is to improve 10. 10 is not even ready you want me to talk about 11. I will talk bout 11 when 10 is good enough to be called 10. :x
10 has easily reached its title imo
I mean it’s a fact that vst is being worked on, so performance will be on par

They added a modern wavetable synth that takes on NI massive and serum territory

They added their take on a malström 2
(The original was made by a sonic charge developer)

They added favorites folders, multi lane edit, quickly adding mix channels to multi audio outputs

The list does indeed go on. 10 has added a lot for free, but I assume others will give it the status when at least vst works accordingly?
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scratchnsnifff
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Post 17 Dec 2018

With what ever comes in 11 I just hope for a combinator 2.0

More importantly I hope they take a good hard look at all the amazing user feedback and requests for one of reasons most powerful tools.

Other daws have their own combinator like system nowadays, I’d like to see the original idea make a comeback. While at the same time squashing the one bug that it has with the text in the sequencer
The timing as to when 11 would come out does feel odd, then again when I got 8, 9 had come out. When I just got use to 9, 9.5 came out and right after that 10 came out. So honestly I wouldn’t mind waiting a little while (maybe see some Re action here and there) and seeing an absolutely crazy update. With all the choices of powerful software, having a flood of an update might not be such a bad idea, something that offered a new synth and effect, plus it would have to target some aspects of workflow and other areas. It might make sense to do that, because if they did it and did it with a bang, then anyone who owns Reason would be dying to update.
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fieldframe
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Post 17 Dec 2018

So here’s why there won’t be a 10.5. Let’s take a look at point releases since Reason 6:

6.0
6.5 - Rack Extensions introduced

7.0
7.1 - RE SDK 2

8.0
8.2 - Auto-update system, Allihoopa 🙃
8.3 - RV7000 MkII

9.0
9.1 - Ableton Link
9.2 - RE SDK 2.5
9.5 - VST support

10.0
10.1 - RE SDK 3 (Player REs)
10.2 - Workflow improvements
10.3 - Core rewrite, improved VST performance

No version of Reason in the past seven years has had more than three point updates. Only Reason 6 and Reason 9 had .5 updates, and what were those? Rack Extensions and VST, the two biggest things to happen to Reason since audio recording.

Propellerhead doesn’t go to .5 unless the entire Reason ecosystem is changing.
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