How do I get these super wide, stereo sounds?

[KirkMarkarian]

I'm listening to the drums in particular, and they're (to me at least) spread across a stereo spectrum that I have NO idea of how to address. I have several (nearly all) of the stereo and Haas REs, and I've been experimenting with ways to get these sounds, but I just can't touch it. How can get these extremely broad sounds with only REs? I'd like to know not only what it takes RE-wise, but how to patch'em together.

I'm working on submitting tracks to various places, and there's a ton of music that get this "sound", and I'd like to be part of that level of music that has that "finished touch". At least as close as I can get without sending it to a mastering house.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Le Boeuf]

You mean the crackling pandelay on one of the sounds?
Rest just sounds differently panned?
and then the unison square synth in the middle.

[KirkMarkarian]

You mean the crackling pandelay on one of the sounds?
Rest just sounds differently panned?
and then the unison square synth in the middle.

In the first video, the actual bass drum sound.

In the second video, the snare sound. I think I can get the broader stereo spectrum on the entire track, but the snare is really standing out. And if I'm hearing it right, the bass drum (like the track above). It seems to have some sort of gated reverb or noise tail that is also just waaaaaaay out there.

I know it probably seems simple, but I'm just not "getting it". I can make the music that I want to, it's these flourishes that I'd like to be able to add. Here's a track that I do, for an example. I'd love to be able to throw in some of these extra wide, exciting sounds to see how much further I could push it: https://www.songtradr.com/user/song/kir ... ian/cavity

[moggadeet]

Did you try all these techniques?

[KirkMarkarian]

Did you try all these techniques?

Thank you for the post - I didn't try any, because I am unsure of where to start with this type. Now I will look at the video. Thanks!

[selig]

You mean the crackling pandelay on one of the sounds?
Rest just sounds differently panned?
and then the unison square synth in the middle.

In the first video, the actual bass drum sound.

In the second video, the snare sound. I think I can get the broader stereo spectrum on the entire track, but the snare is really standing out. And if I'm hearing it right, the bass drum (like the track above). It seems to have some sort of gated reverb or noise tail that is also just waaaaaaay out there.

I know it probably seems simple, but I'm just not "getting it". I can make the music that I want to, it's these flourishes that I'd like to be able to add. Here's a track that I do, for an example. I'd love to be able to throw in some of these extra wide, exciting sounds to see how much further I could push it: https://www.songtradr.com/user/song/kir ... ian/cavity

In both cases there could be reverb involved. In the snare's case there's definitely a stereo imager type effect (mid/side) involved, but I don't always find the Stereo Imager's approach to work as well as some others. Got Ozone 8 Elements for free (with another purchase) recently in a special deal, and found it's stereo effect to be ideal for stuff like this.

For the kick it's harder to tell, but sounds mostly like some wide reverb. For the snare, it could be just an imager or a short dense reverb like Fat Space with some additional widening on just the reverb part (or both).

The idea (IMO, at least) with all of these effects is to try to not loose the impact of the original and make sure it sounds OK in mono (just to be sure). It can be tempting to go super wide - just make sure the sound still has the impact you want (assuming it's not a one off effect, in which case go for it!).

Spreading an impact (drum) sound across the stereo spectrum diffuses some of the impact, whereas focusing it in one point in the stereo field can increase the impact (like a punch in the gut). Like the difference between being hit with a wide spray from a hose vs a very narrow one!

I'm sure there are other techniques too, just mentioning the one's I'm aware of.

[KirkMarkarian]

In both cases there could be reverb involved. In the snare's case there's definitely a stereo imager type effect (mid/side) involved, but I don't always find the Stereo Imager's approach to work as well as some others. Got Ozone 8 Elements for free (with another purchase) recently in a special deal, and found it's stereo effect to be ideal for stuff like this.

For the kick it's harder to tell, but sounds mostly like some wide reverb. For the snare, it could be just an imager or a short dense reverb like Fat Space with some additional widening on just the reverb part (or both).

The idea (IMO, at least) with all of these effects is to try to not loose the impact of the original and make sure it sounds OK in mono (just to be sure). It can be tempting to go super wide - just make sure the sound still has the impact you want (assuming it's not a one off effect, in which case go for it!).

Spreading an impact (drum) sound across the stereo spectrum diffuses some of the impact, whereas focusing it in one point in the stereo field can increase the impact (like a punch in the gut). Like the difference between being hit with a wide spray from a hose vs a very narrow one!

I'm sure there are other techniques too, just mentioning the one's I'm aware of.

Selig - thank you for the clear help! I did follow the instructions of the video above your post and got the bass drum reverb - kinda. It was a quick setup, but seems to work. I used the Air Raid stereo widener, it's got the ability to adjust the frequencies affected, much like the built-in stereo imager. It also works pretty well on an entire mix.

Now, I've gotta figure that snare out. It might work in the same way as the bass drum that I did (from the video), we'll see. I am considering Fat Space, it might be a suitable replacement for the sound I'm going for. I'm running the Synchronous reverb currently, and it's really nice for larger reverb sounds, but maybe I need a close-up reverb.

As for Ozone... Maybe if I pester them enough they'll build us some stuff. I use their limiter and it sits at the end of every one of my tracks. I tried their free imager in Audacity, and it crashed Audacity 7 times out of 10, but when it did work, it sounded amazing. Maybe it was the plugin in AU format that caused the crashing. Audacity is stable for most everything I do with it, and that's a lot of stuff.

[KirkMarkarian]

And now I've got a new reverb love... Fat Space is just beautiful.

[aeox]

Looks like Selig covered it and is spot on.

Though, that snare in the second video sounds too wide for a snare in my opinion . When a snare is that wide it loses it's impact as a snare and I wouldn't say that it particularly sounds like it has a "finished touch".

You could achieve that sound by using the free Ozone Imager's "Stereoize" mode if you must. If that's the sound you like, no one is to say it's bad

[KirkMarkarian]

Looks like Selig covered it and is spot on.

Though, that snare in the second video sounds too wide for a snare in my opinion . When a snare is that wide it loses it's impact as a snare and I wouldn't say that it particularly sounds like it has a "finished touch".

You could achieve that sound by using the free Ozone Imager's "Stereoize" mode if you must. If that's the sound you like, no one is to say it's bad

It Is pretty darn wide! I'm hearing the effect and wondering how to make it so I could put it on individual sounds, here and there, otherwise it would become tiresome, and preferably without VSTs, because I'm irrationally against using them. The Fat Space reverb and the AirRaid stereo imager seem to work pretty well together so far. Maybe there is some mid-side saturation going on... who knows!

[ScuzzyEye]

Here's a fake widening effect I use a lot. http://scuzzyeye.com/patches/Fake%20Stereo.cmb

It doesn't suffer from L/R phasing issues like some Haas effect based tricks. In fact, it turns back into pure mono when played through one speaker (like on a phone). Plus, that means you can use the stereo width on channel turn it back, if it's a little too wide.

[rgdaniel]

I try to use VSTs sparingly, but this one is a favourite:

https://polyversemusic.com/products/wider/

[aeox]

Looks like Selig covered it and is spot on.

Though, that snare in the second video sounds too wide for a snare in my opinion . When a snare is that wide it loses it's impact as a snare and I wouldn't say that it particularly sounds like it has a "finished touch".

You could achieve that sound by using the free Ozone Imager's "Stereoize" mode if you must. If that's the sound you like, no one is to say it's bad

It Is pretty darn wide! I'm hearing the effect and wondering how to make it so I could put it on individual sounds, here and there, otherwise it would become tiresome, and preferably without VSTs, because I'm irrationally against using them. The Fat Space reverb and the AirRaid stereo imager seem to work pretty well together so far. Maybe there is some mid-side saturation going on... who knows!

I was thinking that you were after a single plugin that could do the job for you, which is why I mentioned the Ozone Imager but I do believe you can get better results with Fat Space and side saturation/eq with ColoringEQ.

Using short reverb with mid/side seems like what you are looking for in regard to that kick in the first video and would work great with a snare as well.

The combinator that ScuzzyEye posted is quite nice too! That seems better suited for other sounds besides kick or basses but just depends on what you're after really.

For kicks, I think that it's important to retain the impact and "focus" of it. Using "wide" style effects can take the balls out of a kick in my opinion.

Kick with short reverb+side sat:
Stereo Image


Kick with the widening cmb from ScuzzyEye on parallel channel. If not on parallel channel it completely destroys the impact of a kick.
Stereo Image


Take it with a grain of salt.. if it sounds good.. it sounds good! There are so many different ways to do things.

[aeox]

Here's a fake widening effect I use a lot. http://scuzzyeye.com/patches/Fake%20Stereo.cmb

It doesn't suffer from L/R phasing issues like some Haas effect based tricks. In fact, it turns back into pure mono when played through one speaker (like on a phone). Plus, that means you can use the stereo width on channel turn it back, if it's a little too wide.

Thanks I'll be using this for things

[KirkMarkarian]

I was thinking that you were after a single plugin that could do the job for you, which is why I mentioned the Ozone Imager but I do believe you can get better results with Fat Space and side saturation/eq with ColoringEQ.
Using short reverb with mid/side seems like what you are looking for in regard to that kick in the first video and would work great with a snare as well.
The combinator that ScuzzyEye posted is quite nice too! That seems better suited for other sounds besides kick or basses but just depends on what you're after really.
For kicks, I think that it's important to retain the impact and "focus" of it. Using "wide" style effects can take the balls out of a kick in my opinion.
Take it with a grain of salt.. if it sounds good.. it sounds good! There are so many different ways to do things.

Well, thanks to moggadeet's, Selig's your advice, I was able to get this track off the ground today. Bass drum happens a little bit into the song, but the overall widening of the track is much better than it initially was, so thank you all!

[ScuzzyEye]

The combinator that ScuzzyEye posted is quite nice too! That seems better suited for other sounds besides kick or basses but just depends on what you're after really.

Good point. I even high-pass the signal before effecting it.

Actually, it's a bit more complicated that that. What the Combinator does is take a mono signal, and cause it to comb with itself (delayed side mixed back into the mid). One part of the combed signal goes to the left, and the inverse of that goes to the right. Because very low frequencies would make a wide toothed comb, and just end up in the left, I high-pass filter the signal before allowing it to comb. Then mix the mono bass back into effect.

So not only does my Combinator not work on bassy sounds, the effect itself can't produce good results. But something like the rattle of a snare would get spread out.

[aeox]

I was thinking that you were after a single plugin that could do the job for you, which is why I mentioned the Ozone Imager but I do believe you can get better results with Fat Space and side saturation/eq with ColoringEQ.
Using short reverb with mid/side seems like what you are looking for in regard to that kick in the first video and would work great with a snare as well.
The combinator that ScuzzyEye posted is quite nice too! That seems better suited for other sounds besides kick or basses but just depends on what you're after really.
For kicks, I think that it's important to retain the impact and "focus" of it. Using "wide" style effects can take the balls out of a kick in my opinion.
Take it with a grain of salt.. if it sounds good.. it sounds good! There are so many different ways to do things.

Well, thanks to moggadeet's, Selig's your advice, I was able to get this track off the ground today. Bass drum happens a little bit into the song, but the overall widening of the track is much better than it initially was, so thank you all!

Sounds like you've got things sorted out

[selig]

I was thinking that you were after a single plugin that could do the job for you, which is why I mentioned the Ozone Imager but I do believe you can get better results with Fat Space and side saturation/eq with ColoringEQ.
Using short reverb with mid/side seems like what you are looking for in regard to that kick in the first video and would work great with a snare as well.
The combinator that ScuzzyEye posted is quite nice too! That seems better suited for other sounds besides kick or basses but just depends on what you're after really.
For kicks, I think that it's important to retain the impact and "focus" of it. Using "wide" style effects can take the balls out of a kick in my opinion.
Take it with a grain of salt.. if it sounds good.. it sounds good! There are so many different ways to do things.

Well, thanks to moggadeet's, Selig's your advice, I was able to get this track off the ground today. Bass drum happens a little bit into the song, but the overall widening of the track is much better than it initially was, so thank you all!

Cool sounding track, nice "wide" effects too!

[KirkMarkarian]

Thanks, Selig!

[Reasonable man]

Glad i logged in in the last few days. Killer combies by Selig (kick/bass crossfader) and now Scuzzyeye...and they both work like you wouldn't believe. Oldschool.

[aeox]

Glad i logged in in the last few days. Killer combies by Selig (kick/bass crossfader) and now Scuzzyeye...and they both work like you wouldn't believe. Oldschool.

Indeed! Very clever use of stock/free devices