Edit multiple clips in the same lane? Hand tool with middle mouse? EQ vsts on master channel?

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stalyan
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 Nov 2018

28 Nov 2018

It's been some years since the last time I used reason. I love the new additions like players and that it can finally it can load vst2.

Now the rant....

- Is it possible to select multiple midi clips in the same lane and open them all at once? i searched the manual and it seems it's not possible. (this is present in many daws)

- If that's not possible, does Reason has a "reference copy&paste" mode? So if I copy a clip multiple times, if I modify one of the clips, the rest are modified automatically.

- Also to use the hand-tool so I can scroll, the mouse middle-button does not work. Is not there a way to key-bind it to the mouse?

- Last but not least. Is there a way add EQ vsts in the master channel? (not rack extensions). I managed to create a mixer per instrument using Patchwork (for a couple of vst3) that holds the needed vsts (eq, comp, dinamy eq...), but if you load 40 vsts then reason stops playing back (have 2048 samples on the soundcard, 16gb ddr4 and a new i7, i have the computer config to work well with audio).

These are things that bother me so much of Reason. It's so good creativity-wise but it seems that PH doesn't have UX designers that are also hardcore producers or mixers to fix these things (or thery haven't many staffers).

SPOILER of why i want to edit multiple clips: I created a lot of hihat variations on Kong with Drum Sequencer and I just want to remove the rest of drums to export only the hihats. I know that you have the "send to track" and then split into each drum component, but i'm doing lots of variations and i just dont want to add another Kong as i've routed the pad sound audio outs to the mixer. Maybe there's a way to have more than 8 patterns in drum sequencer?

Sorry for the many questions!

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

28 Nov 2018

stalyan wrote:
28 Nov 2018
It's been some years since the last time I used reason. I love the new additions like players and that it can finally it can load vst2.

Now the rant....

- Is it possible to select multiple midi clips in the same lane and open them all at once? i searched the manual and it seems it's not possible. (this is present in many daws)

- If that's not possible, does Reason has a "reference copy&paste" mode? So if I copy a clip multiple times, if I modify one of the clips, the rest are modified automatically.

- Also to use the hand-tool so I can scroll, the mouse middle-button does not work. Is not there a way to key-bind it to the mouse?

- Last but not least. Is there a way add EQ vsts in the master channel? (not rack extensions). I managed to create a mixer per instrument using Patchwork (for a couple of vst3) that holds the needed vsts (eq, comp, dinamy eq...), but if you load 40 vsts then reason stops playing back (have 2048 samples on the soundcard, 16gb ddr4 and a new i7, i have the computer config to work well with audio).

These are things that bother me so much of Reason. It's so good creativity-wise but it seems that PH doesn't have UX designers that are also hardcore producers or mixers to fix these things (or thery haven't many staffers).

SPOILER of why i want to edit multiple clips: I created a lot of hihat variations on Kong with Drum Sequencer and I just want to remove the rest of drums to export only the hihats. I know that you have the "send to track" and then split into each drum component, but i'm doing lots of variations and i just dont want to add another Kong as i've routed the pad sound audio outs to the mixer. Maybe there's a way to have more than 8 patterns in drum sequencer?

Sorry for the many questions!
1 - Sounds like you're describing multi lane edit, maybe? Select multiple tracks and/or lanes and just enter edit mode. So long as you're running Reason 10.2 you should see "ghosted" versions of notes on other lanes and can switch between them either by selecting the notes directly, or pressing the arrows on the track list.

2 - No, there's no ghost copy function. The closest you will get is Blocks mode. Press B to enter blocks, create each section of your song, press B again to toggle back to the Song view and then at the top of the arranger is a lane where you can pencil in blocks and select which pattern plays. This would allow you to make one edit and have it propagate throughout the entire song, but of course it has its limitations.

3 - All the tools are accessible via the first 7 keys on your keyboard. Press "U" for hand to pan around. "Q" will take you back to the pointer. Alternatively scroll wheel will move you vertically through any window, and shift scroll wheel will move you horizontally.

4 - Not sure I understand? The master section has an insert FX slot, if that's what you mean. And you can put VSTs in there, as you can in the insert section of any Mix Channel. But I might be misunderstanding this last question...

As far as VST usage goes there are some well documented performance issues surrounding VST in Reason and I think at this point it's fair to say that in like-for-like comparisons, Reason will not run as many as other DAWs. There is a patch coming, which we're all very much looking forward to! In the meantime, I would avoid using VSTs for simple things like EQ and dynamics on eeeevery single channel. It's really not worth the DSP hit, especially in the context of a mix. If there's a particular dynamic or EQ processor that you like the character of I would, personally, reserve that for the focal points of the mix rather than have 10, 20, 30, 40 of them running at a time. At least until the patch is released and we know where we're at with performance. In terms of EQ, GQ7 from Synapse is absolutely fantastic and will use way less DSP. And the parametric and filters on the channel strip itself are perfectly fine for general sound sculpting on your backing instruments, again at virtually no cost in DSP terms.

PhillipOrdonez
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29 Nov 2018

stalyan wrote:
28 Nov 2018


SPOILER of why i want to edit multiple clips: I created a lot of hihat variations on Kong with Drum Sequencer and I just want to remove the rest of drums to export only the hihats. I know that you have the "send to track" and then split into each drum component, but i'm doing lots of variations and i just dont want to add another Kong as i've routed the pad sound audio outs to the mixer. Maybe there's a way to have more than 8 patterns in drum sequencer?

Sorry for the many questions!
Okay, about this, I would go about it this way: if I understand it correctly, you have done lots of hi hat variation with the drum sequencer and used the 8 patterns. You also did lots of other drums within those patterns and now you just want the hats, correct? So I would bounce those patterns to the sequencer, and using the F8 tool window, explode those lanes to separate midi lanes, locate the hi hat lane, delete everything else, move the hat lane to a dummy intrument temporarily (muted), and then clear the drum sequencer and program another batch of patterns there, and repeat until I have enough... Not like I have found 8 to be too few patterns though, but that is just me.

stalyan
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 Nov 2018

29 Nov 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:1 - Sounds like you're describing multi lane edit, maybe? Select multiple tracks and/or lanes and just enter edit mode. So long as you're running Reason 10.2 you should see "ghosted" versions of notes on other lanes and can switch between them either by selecting the notes directly, or pressing the arrows on the track list.
I was referring about editing multiple clips on the same track at once without having to double to enter and edit one after another. But the multi lane feature is cool. :)
chimp_spanner wrote:3 - All the tools are accessible via the first 7 keys on your keyboard. Press "U" for hand to pan around. "Q" will take you back to the pointer. Alternatively scroll wheel will move you vertically through any window, and shift scroll wheel will move you horizontally.
I know, it's just that you should be able to hand drag in any direction without having to change keys each time (ala Cubase for example). Maybe long-time users are used to it or don't use the hand tool much but it feels a bit clunky UX-wise to me.
chimp_spanner wrote:4 - Not sure I understand? The master section has an insert FX slot, if that's what you mean. And you can put VSTs in there, as you can in the insert section of any Mix Channel. But I might be misunderstanding this last question...
Sorry i'll explain better. I meant if once you start working on the mixer you can access any EQ vst that you previously inserted in each instrument without going back and forth from the mixer view to the instruments view. i.e. I want to open the Span EQ vst quickly on each instrument without leaving the mixer. Is this possible? (I open & close those EQs and othere vsts a lot to avoid oversaturating the screen with contextual windows).
chimp_spanner wrote:There is a patch coming, which we're all very much looking forward to! In the meantime, I would avoid using VSTs for simple things like EQ and dynamics on eeeevery single channel. [...] And the parametric and filters on the channel strip itself are perfectly fine for general sound sculpting on your backing instruments, again at virtually no cost in DSP terms.
But it is so much needed if you don't want to end up bouncing tracks (Rewire is not an option if you started production in Reason and you used vsts, because when rewiring the VSTs in Reason won't load but only in the master daw) ... i'd love to be able to only work within Reason 10 but at the moment i have to go to cubase in the mixing/master stage. I don't want to do a general mix in reason and then finish the mix in Cubase. I prefer to focus only with one daw.
I heard about GQ7, but i already purchased a couple of eq plugins so it makes no sense to purchase another one.

Thanks a lot chimp_spanner for taking the time to answer my questions, much appreciated :)

PhillipOrdonez wrote:Okay, about this, I would go about it this way: if I understand it correctly, you have done lots of hi hat variation with the drum sequencer and used the 8 patterns. You also did lots of other drums within those patterns and now you just want the hats, correct? So I would bounce those patterns to the sequencer, and using the F8 tool window, explode those lanes to separate midi lanes, locate the hi hat lane, delete everything else, move the hat lane to a dummy intrument temporarily (muted), and then clear the drum sequencer and program another batch of patterns there, and repeat until I have enough... Not like I have found 8 to be too few patterns though, but that is just me.
Nice trick Phillip thanks it worked out pretty well. :)

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 2908
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

30 Nov 2018

stalyan wrote: I was referring about editing multiple clips on the same track at once without having to double to enter and edit one after another. But the multi lane feature is cool. :)
Ahhh I think I understand. Hmm in that case while in the note editor, there's a lane at the top that displays the actual note clips. You can double click to enter edit for them (I think). It's not quite what you're on about but it's marginally faster than editing, exiting the editor, entering the editor, and repeating.
stalyan wrote: I know, it's just that you should be able to hand drag in any direction without having to change keys each time (ala Cubase for example). Maybe long-time users are used to it or don't use the hand tool much but it feels a bit clunky UX-wise to me.
Understood - middle mouse to drag would be amazing! Let's start a petition haha.
stalyan wrote: Sorry i'll explain better. I meant if once you start working on the mixer you can access any EQ vst that you previously inserted in each instrument without going back and forth from the mixer view to the instruments view. i.e. I want to open the Span EQ vst quickly on each instrument without leaving the mixer. Is this possible? (I open & close those EQs and othere vsts a lot to avoid oversaturating the screen with contextual windows).
Gotcha. The only way you can really do that is by pressing "Edit Inserts" on the channel strip. This will open the rack up in a new window frame (meaning a vertical screen split) and show you the insert FX section for that channel. I don't think there's any other way than this. Alternatively if you have two monitors, you could keep the rack open on one so that when you press Edit Inserts, the mixer stays full screen and the rack will automatically focus to the right place. But otherwise, I don't think there's a way to accomplish what you're after. Because of the way inserts are created/stored on channels it's not possible to have them listed directly in the mixer. If Reason had an 8 or 16 insert limit like Cubase, maybe. But as it's limitless there's really no way around it.
stalyan wrote: But it is so much needed if you don't want to end up bouncing tracks (Rewire is not an option if you started production in Reason and you used vsts, because when rewiring the VSTs in Reason won't load but only in the master daw) ... i'd love to be able to only work within Reason 10 but at the moment i have to go to cubase in the mixing/master stage. I don't want to do a general mix in reason and then finish the mix in Cubase. I prefer to focus only with one daw.
I heard about GQ7, but i already purchased a couple of eq plugins so it makes no sense to purchase another one.
Yeah like I said, the VST situation isn't perfect right now, so really the only thing we can do until the update drops is try to work economically and efficiently. So that means using stock or third party racks where possible, or the channel strip, being careful of the track count, etc. All of which are good practices anyway, even if performance wasn't an issue! There's only so much the ear can discern in a mix. But yeah I mean agreed, it is a bit of an issue atm. I'm working on an album right now and I am having to make some choices at this early stage as to what goes in the mix while still having the latency low enough to track guitar. So we just gotta wait it out and see what comes in 10.3? .5? Whatever it'll be called!

antic604

30 Nov 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
30 Nov 2018
...meaning a vertical screen split...
If only the split was vertical! I'd love to see this - even as an option - eventually:

Image

stalyan
Posts: 3
Joined: 28 Nov 2018

02 Dec 2018

Sorry chimp_spanner was family time this weekend.
chimp_spanner wrote:Gotcha. The only way you can really do that is by pressing "Edit Inserts" on the channel strip. This will open the rack up in a new window frame (meaning a vertical screen split) and show you the insert FX section for that channel. I don't think there's any other way than this. Alternatively if you have two monitors, you could keep the rack open on one so that when you press Edit Inserts, the mixer stays full screen and the rack will automatically focus to the right place. But otherwise, I don't think there's a way to accomplish what you're after. Because of the way inserts are created/stored on channels it's not possible to have them listed directly in the mixer. If Reason had an 8 or 16 insert limit like Cubase, maybe. But as it's limitless there's really no way around it.
I think this one is one of the main no-goers for musicians that are looking for some serious daw capabilities. The current workflow is extremely inefficient UX-wise. Opening a vst is two clicks away, plus the fact that you have to move the sight and mouse too far away from the origin point (the "Edit inserts" on the channel strip). I know for some may be a weird explanation, but when you repeat this operation so many times, the time you waste piles up. I worked a long time in QA management for software development so i'm quite aware on the impact this has on the user adoption.
chimp_spanner wrote:Understood - middle mouse to drag would be amazing! Let's start a petition haha.
Pretty please let me know what must be done to reach PH so that they actually take this very easy to implement improvement into account!
chimp_spanner wrote:Yeah like I said, the VST situation isn't perfect right now, so really the only thing we can do until the update drops is try to work economically and efficiently. So that means using stock or third party racks where possible, or the channel strip, being careful of the track count, etc. All of which are good practices anyway, even if performance wasn't an issue! There's only so much the ear can discern in a mix. But yeah I mean agreed, it is a bit of an issue atm. I'm working on an album right now and I am having to make some choices at this early stage as to what goes in the mix while still having the latency low enough to track guitar. So we just gotta wait it out and see what comes in 10.3? .5? Whatever it'll be called!
This one is an efficient approach no doubt. At the same time i'm sure that if we ask anyone here on the forums a non neglictible amount will tell that they use a bunch of tracks, mainly bus sends I guess... I cannot really imagine managing an orchestral score in reason! (i'm not saying it can't, I heard that some actually do!)

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aeox
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02 Dec 2018

stalyan wrote:
28 Nov 2018
Also to use the hand-tool so I can scroll, the mouse middle-button does not work. Is not there a way to key-bind it to the mouse?
Just something you are use to doing in your other DAW but I've never even used the hand tool in reason. There is a slider at the bottom of the sequencer that works just as well and you can scroll up and down with middle mouse. It took me a few months to rewire my muscle memory to work in Reason fast and efficiently

There were quite a few things that I wanted in Reason after leaving FL studio but after a while a realized that Reason has it's own way of doing most things pretty efficiently and quickly once you are use to it. Give it some time getting use to :puf_smile:

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syncanonymous
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13 Dec 2018

Before I started using Reason as much as I have the past few years, I never used the hand tool, either

nowadays, tho, I use the hand tool very often...and those sliders Aeox mentions I find quite fiddly in post Reason 8 world

I am pretty sure I could map the "u" key to one of my Rival buttons, yet, for me keyboard shortcuts are fine

definitely, when switching from DAWs, the keyboard shortcuts differences can be a bit of a brain teaser
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