Really hanging for this Peformance Update

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ProfessaKaos
Posts: 271
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 28 Nov 2018

I need it bad. It is very hard to finish any songs in Reason, even when bouncing all synths and samplers to audio.
When near completion of a song in Reason, it always seems to be crapping itself to the point I can't play the song. It is very hard to mix a song when you tweak knobs only in hope it will sound better, because you can't play it back to hear it.
My first and last rant. Thanks for giving me a place to express my frustrations. Cheers

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Noplan
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Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Cologne, Germany

Post 28 Nov 2018

You have problems with bounced audio tracks? does not seem to be a reason problem.

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 1926
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 28 Nov 2018

ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
I need it bad. It is very hard to finish any songs in Reason, even when bouncing all synths and samplers to audio.
When near completion of a song in Reason, it always seems to be crapping itself to the point I can't play the song. It is very hard to mix a song when you tweak knobs only in hope it will sound better, because you can't play it back to hear it.
My first and last rant. Thanks for giving me a place to express my frustrations. Cheers
First of all, I too am hankering for this update. I think we all are! I'm starting the process of recording a full length album entirely in Reason and I know that VST is the one thing holding me back.

With that said...I'm not sure I've encountered a situation where I literally could not finish a song because of it. Can you give us an example of a section of a song where you're unable to play? Your specs seem up to the job. What kind of instruments and effects are you using, typical track count, etc.? And also what sample rate and buffer size on your audio interface?
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

HP Envy J130ea | i7 4700MQ | 12 GB DDR | 2GB GeForce 740m | Komplete Audio 6

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ProfessaKaos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 28 Nov 2018

Noplan wrote:
28 Nov 2018
You have problems with bounced audio tracks? does not seem to be a reason problem.
No issues with bouncing to audio.

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Crumbfort
Posts: 37
Joined: 20 May 2018

Post 28 Nov 2018

ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
I need it bad. It is very hard to finish any songs in Reason, even when bouncing all synths and samplers to audio.
When near completion of a song in Reason, it always seems to be crapping itself to the point I can't play the song. It is very hard to mix a song when you tweak knobs only in hope it will sound better, because you can't play it back to hear it.
My first and last rant. Thanks for giving me a place to express my frustrations. Cheers
Yeah, I get ya. I've stopped even messing with VSTs in Reason for the time being as it just wrecks my computer (even with very few/lightweight plugs). Mostly just rewiring from Reaper nowadays, waiting to see what this update brings.

I'm on a Mid 2012 Mac Pro / 10.13.6 / 3.33 GHz 6-Core / 32 GB RAM. This is not intended as Reason bashing as I really do love the software, just hopeful about the upcoming update.

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aeox
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Location: Oregon

Post 28 Nov 2018

I've been practicing "less is more" when using devices and processing sounds. Turns out that there are very little VST that I "need". Most things can really be done with stock devices too.

It's not a solution but it's really easy to get caught up in loading way too many VST into a project that don't need to be there.
whoahh

Last edited by aeox on 24 May 2018, edited too many times in total.

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ProfessaKaos
Posts: 271
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 28 Nov 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
28 Nov 2018
ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
I need it bad. It is very hard to finish any songs in Reason, even when bouncing all synths and samplers to audio.
When near completion of a song in Reason, it always seems to be crapping itself to the point I can't play the song. It is very hard to mix a song when you tweak knobs only in hope it will sound better, because you can't play it back to hear it.
My first and last rant. Thanks for giving me a place to express my frustrations. Cheers
First of all, I too am hankering for this update. I think we all are! I'm starting the process of recording a full length album entirely in Reason and I know that VST is the one thing holding me back.

With that said...I'm not sure I've encountered a situation where I literally could not finish a song because of it. Can you give us an example of a section of a song where you're unable to play? Your specs seem up to the job. What kind of instruments and effects are you using, typical track count, etc.? And also what sample rate and buffer size on your audio interface?
Mainly always the chorus section, but some songs the verse sections also. Each song usually contains about 3-5 instrument tracks, 4-6 drum tracks and 4-8 vocal tracks.
The effects I use are mostly Waves, Plugin Alliance plugins. Sample rate is always 48kHz, buffer size when mixing is always maxed to 2024samples (I believe that is the correct samples, not at my computer right now to 100% but I raise it to the maximum). I have an RME Babyface interface. I do most of my processing at the bus stages. I also have FL Studio 20 Producer, Ableton Live 10 Standard, Pro Tools 12 which cope with this kind up setup with ease. My downfall is I like to finish projects within the software I started it, and love the work flow of Reason more so than the others.

Ostermilk
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 28 Nov 2018

Whilst I'm not 'hanging', I'm looking forward to VST performance being properly addressed in an update, certainly.

Fortunately I've always had a fully functioning mixing environment and Reason has been a creative and productive adjunct to that. So I'd be very happy to be able to use Reason for that task too if it becomes possible in the near future.

I'm using Reason mostly at the moment because I'm getting some stuff down rather than mixing, so it's doing its Reason do just fine here for now.

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ProfessaKaos
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 28 Nov 2018

Crumbfort wrote:
28 Nov 2018
ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
I need it bad. It is very hard to finish any songs in Reason, even when bouncing all synths and samplers to audio.
When near completion of a song in Reason, it always seems to be crapping itself to the point I can't play the song. It is very hard to mix a song when you tweak knobs only in hope it will sound better, because you can't play it back to hear it.
My first and last rant. Thanks for giving me a place to express my frustrations. Cheers
Yeah, I get ya. I've stopped even messing with VSTs in Reason for the time being as it just wrecks my computer (even with very few/lightweight plugs). Mostly just rewiring from Reaper nowadays, waiting to see what this update brings.

I'm on a Mid 2012 Mac Pro / 10.13.6 / 3.33 GHz 6-Core / 32 GB RAM. This is not intended as Reason bashing as I really do love the software, just hopeful about the upcoming update.
Yeah not bashing Reason, sorry to everyone if this is/has come across as a bashing. I love Reason too much, that's why I am frustrated. It's like a girlfriend you dearly love, she may frustrate the crap out of you at times but you still adore her and will do anything for her.

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ProfessaKaos
Posts: 271
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 28 Nov 2018

aeox wrote:
28 Nov 2018
I've been practicing "less is more" when using devices and processing sounds. Turns out that there are very little VST that I "need". Most things can really be done with stock devices too.

It's not a solution but it's really easy to get caught up in loading way too many VST into a project that don't need to be there.
True. I mainly use plugins/do my processing at bus stages because of this mind set. My plugin Alliance plugins have a certain quality/tone that I can not achieve with stock devices.

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chimp_spanner
Posts: 1926
Joined: 06 Mar 2015

Post 28 Nov 2018

ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
Crumbfort wrote:
28 Nov 2018


Yeah, I get ya. I've stopped even messing with VSTs in Reason for the time being as it just wrecks my computer (even with very few/lightweight plugs). Mostly just rewiring from Reaper nowadays, waiting to see what this update brings.

I'm on a Mid 2012 Mac Pro / 10.13.6 / 3.33 GHz 6-Core / 32 GB RAM. This is not intended as Reason bashing as I really do love the software, just hopeful about the upcoming update.
Yeah not bashing Reason, sorry to everyone if this is/has come across as a bashing. I love Reason too much, that's why I am frustrated. It's like a girlfriend you dearly love, she may frustrate the crap out of you at times but you still adore her and will do anything for her.
Oh man don't feel bad for saying what you gotta say! I'm in the same boat as you in that I love working in Reason and don't want to have to use anything else. With things as they are I'm still 50/50 as to getting the writing and tracking done in Cubase, and then sound design and production and mixing in Reason, because I need the lowest possible latency to record. But I also can't be doing with the crackles! *BUT* I also can't be dealing with working in Cubase. Unless of course I look at this as an opportunity to segregate the writing and production processes. And just say, okay, I'm here to get the drums and guitars done. Fun stuff comes later.

Hmm. I dunno.
Enjoy!

http://www.paulortizmusic.com

HP Envy J130ea | i7 4700MQ | 12 GB DDR | 2GB GeForce 740m | Komplete Audio 6

Jmax
Posts: 510
Joined: 03 Apr 2015

Post 28 Nov 2018

ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
I need it bad. It is very hard to finish any songs in Reason, even when bouncing all synths and samplers to audio.
When near completion of a song in Reason, it always seems to be crapping itself to the point I can't play the song. It is very hard to mix a song when you tweak knobs only in hope it will sound better, because you can't play it back to hear it.
My first and last rant. Thanks for giving me a place to express my frustrations. Cheers
What kind of problems are you actually having, with which VST's?

Looking at your specs. You should be absolutely flying. Or at least in a great place. I have a similar setup and run many VSTs and don't seem to have issues. Could it be your audio card?

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Noplan
Posts: 561
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Location: Cologne, Germany

Post 29 Nov 2018

ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018
Noplan wrote:
28 Nov 2018
You have problems with bounced audio tracks? does not seem to be a reason problem.
No issues with bouncing to audio.

Yes, but you said you can`t finish a song even if you work with bounced audio tracks.

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Arrant
Posts: 285
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 29 Nov 2018

Jmax wrote:
28 Nov 2018

What kind of problems are you actually having, with which VST's?

Looking at your specs. You should be absolutely flying. Or at least in a great place. I have a similar setup and run many VSTs and don't seem to have issues. Could it be your audio card?
You mean that rock-solid RME he’s got? Highly doubt it. «Flying» is a bit optimistic, my specs are a lot better and still not good enough to write, mix and master a track using plenty of REs or VSTs. Eagerly awaiting the update.

mashers
Posts: 92
Joined: 05 Nov 2018

Post 29 Nov 2018

This doesn't seem normal. My 2011 iMac is fairly low-spec, with a 2.5GHz Intel Core i5, 12GB of RAM and the built-in audio interface, and some of my Reason racks are massive. My latest has one Kong, nine Thor and eight vocal tracks, all of which have their own compressors and effects. In this track I also have a couple of combinators which house stacks of effects for processing some of the vocal tracks as insert effects. Other songs are similarly sized and also include a VST and a RE. The machine never chokes and I can manipulate the devices while the track is playing.

If you can't even play back your songs after bouncing to audio tracks then I would say there is a bigger problem on your machine. I'm not so hot on Windows these days, but my first thought would be to check Task Manager to see what is using resources on your machine. If something in the background is utilising lots of CPU and/or RAM, that could be your problem.
:reason: Singer/songwriter exclusively using Reason 10 to write electro/orchestral songs
:lightbulb: Latest songs: Terrorbytes | Chrononauts | Peacock
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fretshot7
Posts: 67
Joined: 02 Apr 2018

Post 29 Nov 2018

mashers wrote:
29 Nov 2018
This doesn't seem normal. My 2011 iMac is fairly low-spec, with a 2.5GHz Intel Core i5, 12GB of RAM and the built-in audio interface, and some of my Reason racks are massive. My latest has one Kong, nine Thor and eight vocal tracks, all of which have their own compressors and effects. In this track I also have a couple of combinators which house stacks of effects for processing some of the vocal tracks as insert effects. Other songs are similarly sized and also include a VST and a RE. The machine never chokes and I can manipulate the devices while the track is playing.

If you can't even play back your songs after bouncing to audio tracks then I would say there is a bigger problem on your machine. I'm not so hot on Windows these days, but my first thought would be to check Task Manager to see what is using resources on your machine. If something in the background is utilising lots of CPU and/or RAM, that could be your problem.
This for me too.
Its obvious but the only time I have issues is when I have more than one Reason project open, close the one im not working on and i'm flying again :-)

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Arrant
Posts: 285
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 29 Nov 2018

Seriously, only one RE or VST in a mix? :shock:
We're talking VST perfomance here (and I'll throw in REs as a problem as well for good measure). Of course if you're only using Thor, Kong, audio tracks and some native effects in your mix you won't have much of a problem.

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Lempface
Posts: 56
Joined: 27 Jan 2018

Post 29 Nov 2018

I am completely stalled until VST performance is improved. In fact I just bought Bitwig on the Black Friday sale and didn't realize it didn't have rewire. Now I'm looking at another expenditure for a vst that allows rewire. I love the Reason instruments but this just sucks.... :(

I hate bouncing because it makes tweaking a pain in the ass.

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fotizimo
Posts: 254
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Canada

Post 29 Nov 2018

Yeah I have to admit that I am struggling right now as well. I run on a Surface Pro4 which isn't the highest end computer, but which worked really well in previous versions. As an electronic musician, my projects are all based on either REs or VSTs with heavy use of Kong/Umpf sampling and effects. And I have slowly watched my projects getting smaller before I start hitting the dreaded crackles. I have non-VST projects which I made in v8 on this same computer, that I no longer can properly run.

I am not sure what is happening with Reason these days, but v10 has been a struggle in terms of performance, and a blessing in terms of functionality.
Fotizimo @ Instagram
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demt
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Post 29 Nov 2018

its this: diffrent from every other daw: carping we know yi and decided it is the best way to go regs your normall 4 piece band the rest is its more fun than any other daw though ive still got to beat batehovens 5th with the reason orchestral refill just as an afterthought like.
Anyways im sure venting your feelings helps but its like diff to get your facts right or relevent ,talking of witch theres going to be a positive uplift in reasons hardcorps users thatll affect the interface between man and machine so erm updates are generally when to bet your luck and dammit if it isnt ludicrously expensive hardware nailing reasons perfect 320k sample rates with their 44k maxims, cost a fortune to prove that! needless to say i still carnt use caustic in the same breath as hardware.
neutron; tb3; triggerfingerpro;3korg volca keys fm drums; kaos pad 3;zaquencer; akai mpk mini;2 zmx mixers; midiplus interface; behringer umc souncard, arturia drumbrute
hear scince reason 2.5

Jmax
Posts: 510
Joined: 03 Apr 2015

Post 29 Nov 2018

Arrant wrote:
29 Nov 2018
Jmax wrote:
28 Nov 2018

What kind of problems are you actually having, with which VST's?

Looking at your specs. You should be absolutely flying. Or at least in a great place. I have a similar setup and run many VSTs and don't seem to have issues. Could it be your audio card?
You mean that rock-solid RME he’s got? Highly doubt it. «Flying» is a bit optimistic, my specs are a lot better and still not good enough to write, mix and master a track using plenty of REs or VSTs. Eagerly awaiting the update.
I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. I have similar specs, a huge host of VSTs which all work fine. Kontakt instruments etc. You're telling me, you can't write music? mix? or master? and the guy has an RME? vs. my Presonus VSL44. I do just fine.

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Arrant
Posts: 285
Joined: 16 Jan 2015

Post 29 Nov 2018

Jmax wrote:
29 Nov 2018
I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. I have similar specs, a huge host of VSTs which all work fine. Kontakt instruments etc. You're telling me, you can't write music? mix? or master? and the guy has an RME? vs. my Presonus VSL44. I do just fine.
You are of course free to believe what you wish. Some people believe the earth is flat. Many people don’t believe in climate change, but that doesn’t make it any less real or any less dangerous.
I’m happy that you get the performance you need, but there are also lots of users demonstrating that they do not, and trust me our problems are real.

There are of course differences between VSTs as well, V-station is no DIVA for example.

For the record, I’m not the one with the RME, my soundcard is more humble but my computer is not. The soundcard isn’t a problem though, as evidenced by performance in other DAWs.

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Crumbfort
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Joined: 20 May 2018

Post 29 Nov 2018

Jmax wrote:
29 Nov 2018
Arrant wrote:
29 Nov 2018


You mean that rock-solid RME he’s got? Highly doubt it. «Flying» is a bit optimistic, my specs are a lot better and still not good enough to write, mix and master a track using plenty of REs or VSTs. Eagerly awaiting the update.
I'm sorry but I find that hard to believe. I have similar specs, a huge host of VSTs which all work fine. Kontakt instruments etc. You're telling me, you can't write music? mix? or master? and the guy has an RME? vs. my Presonus VSL44. I do just fine.
I'm not going to say that your setup isn't working great with VSTs in Reason, but c'mon now.... :|

My specs:

2012 Mac Pro / 10.13.6 / 3.33 GHz 6-Core / 32 GB RAM / Fireface UFX

VSTs in Reason bring my rig to its knees, and quickly at that. One instance of Re-Pro 5 (in a completely empty session), for example, fills the DSP bar and starts everything crackling. To be honest, I'd just like to be able to utilize the VST effects that I own and love using.

That said, I'm still looking forward to and am hopeful about the upcoming update.

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ProfessaKaos
Posts: 271
Joined: 17 Jan 2015
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Post 29 Nov 2018

Noplan wrote:
29 Nov 2018
ProfessaKaos wrote:
28 Nov 2018


No issues with bouncing to audio.

Yes, but you said you can`t finish a song even if you work with bounced audio tracks.
If I were to use nothing but Reason stock devices instead of third party plugins/Re's I would have no issues, I just wouldn't be able to achieve some things I can with 3rd party plugins.
Bouncing to audio does help, but it isn't a massive improvement.

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Reasonable man
Posts: 245
Joined: 14 Jul 2016

Post 29 Nov 2018

I dont own many Vst's so my resposnse is selfish. Re's a real a problem too and if we get a performance update for the likes Serum and not for the likes of Expanse ..being practical ...which one are you gonna buy?

The live performance thing is real , in electronica sooner or later if you start doing things right; someone somewhere will ask you to 'perform' your music live at which stage you either can or you cant. In situations like this people want/expect you to do stuff , e.g. if your a singer people arn't going to come to your gig if your lip-syncing.
Here reason looses and yea you might get away with it if your live playing subtarctor, malstrom and thor, keep proceessing to a stoneage minium and burn exactly everything else to audio.. but its nearly 2019 ......... lots of luck with that. And its not like you can max the buffer in that scenario ....think about it.

I used to own a Rover , i bought it second hand and cheap enogh. Alot of people told me to sell it as fast as i could (i'm not a car expert) and i soon understood why - i needed 3 head gasket replacements in two years at £600 a pop and that wasn't the only issue. The fact is that the company never ever fixed the low coolent engine capacity problem ...result people stopped buying Rovers...result company went bust.

There's a sometimes a massive contrast between blindly defending a company and being honest. A little allround optimization goes a long way to making reason more parctical .. i'm willing to wait if Props are really willing to do what it takes to make those improvents and no i dont want to rush em or pressurise them in anyway . Propellerheads have done too many things right and too many things well. Even if people leave in the meantime ...they will come back if performance improves they're product is that good.

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