Reason 10 and Ozone 8

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moozak
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14 Oct 2018

Hi guys,
I am a noob when it comes to mastering. Thankfully, Ozone 8 has a Master Assistant which does most of the work, and I simply tweak the things that I don't like. It's really helpful, and it's a great starting point for people like me, who don't know much about mastering.

However, there's something that I don't understand. The Reason MASTER SECTION equalizer goes into red, while the Ozone 8 equalizer does not. Which one is the accurate one? I attached a screenshot to show what I mean.

Thank you :)
master-screenshot.jpg
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jam-s
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14 Oct 2018

That's most likely because you do have another effect or something that is altering the gain of the signal after Ozone and before the hardware interface device in reason.

PhillipOrdonez
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15 Oct 2018

See that true peak button? Have it on, and turn the ceiling to -0.3 if going to print to cd or -1 for streaming.

Also, I rather master in the standalone; having a whole mix project and mastering on top is an unnecessary strain on your system.

It probably clips on Reason because while the master assistant is doing is processing and applying settings, it may go overboard or perhaps it was clipping from before and you forgot to reset it?

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mcatalao
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15 Oct 2018

From my experience they are both right.

So first and foremost do you have anything after Ozone on the master bus? Also... If you have th inserts pre compressor option on, and then have the main bus compressor on it will be applied after ozone (wich in the main bus is an insert).

Finally, be sure to have your main fader at unity (0) as this is another stage where you can add gain after Ozone.
For this to work Ozone must be the last effect on the master bus (specially if you're adding noize shaping and dither from ozone when exporting).
Last edited by mcatalao on 18 Oct 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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Luxuria
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16 Oct 2018

Could there be any other reasons the meters are off? I've been skeptical of Reason's master fader readings for a while now and tested differences in readings in stand alone Ozone 7 and Pro Tools.

I'll have nothing in the master chain (I export the wav file and use a dedicated reason file for mastering), master bus compressor is disabled, no sends, etc and still get differences. I even tried bypassinh the master section and routed the stereo track to the metering devices and into external audio outputs 1-2 with same results.

At first I thought it was the different scale algorithm Reason uses. I tested one of my latest tracks and used both the flower audio meter and the LPM by lectric panda. True peak's were at times clipping at +0.2 while pro tools gave me readings of -0.2 on the master fader reading.

I haven't fully done my research so pardon my ignorance in not checking what the default mode the fader was in but I'd like to say it shows what the peak mode in reason is.

I also wonder how many songs actually follow the -1.0 true peak rule of thumb, because none of my reference tracks display that on the LPM; most get right up to 0.0 or -0.1 and some even clip.

At the end of the day, I gave up worrying and decided if it sounds good, it is good but there's a part of me that really wants to understand what's going on and get it right by the book so I don't get into trouble in the future if I were to professionally release my material.

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mcatalao
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18 Oct 2018

Luxuria,

I've never noticed such differences, and there shouldn't be much differences. The only thing i keep going to is the master bus compressor, that CAN (not saying it is) be put after the master inserts. Other than that... i don't have more ideas.

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adfielding
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18 Oct 2018

I always route my post-mix inserts (which generally consists of an EQ and a limiter these days) directly before the audio I/O - i.e. it goes from the Master Section output -> post-mix inserts -> audio output. That way, there is zero doubt in my mind that my post-mix effects will be the last thing that the audio passes through before hitting the output.

To be honest I had actually sort of forgotten why I picked up that habit in the first place, but this thread has reminded me of why I tend to ignore the "Master Section" insert section altogether.

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selig
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18 Oct 2018

adfielding wrote:I always route my post-mix inserts (which generally consists of an EQ and a limiter these days) directly before the audio I/O - i.e. it goes from the Master Section output -> post-mix inserts -> audio output. That way, there is zero doubt in my mind that my post-mix effects will be the last thing that the audio passes through before hitting the output.

To be honest I had actually sort of forgotten why I picked up that habit in the first place, but this thread has reminded me of why I tend to ignore the "Master Section" insert section altogether.

I second this - started doing it when Ozone Maximizer RE was introduced because of dither (which needs to be the absolute last thing in the chain).

If you put any mastering device in the Master Insert, it is still PRE FADER, meaning that even if you set the Inserts to be POST COMPRESSOR you can still clip if the master fader is moved above zero, or get less level if it’s move below zero (as it would be on a fade out).

Note that Reason is “smart” and will not show clipping on the Master Meters (next to the Master Fader) even if levels exceed 0 dBFS since it is “aware” that there are other devices patched into the signal path AFTER the master section.

It is for this reason you should rely solely on the Big Meter and it’s clip indicators as the absolute final “judge” of output levels (including clipping).


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EnochLight
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18 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
18 Oct 2018
adfielding wrote:I always route my post-mix inserts (which generally consists of an EQ and a limiter these days) directly before the audio I/O - i.e. it goes from the Master Section output -> post-mix inserts -> audio output. That way, there is zero doubt in my mind that my post-mix effects will be the last thing that the audio passes through before hitting the output.

To be honest I had actually sort of forgotten why I picked up that habit in the first place, but this thread has reminded me of why I tend to ignore the "Master Section" insert section altogether.

I second this - started doing it when Ozone Maximizer RE was introduced because of dither (which needs to be the absolute last thing in the chain).
Same. This is the exact same reason why I do it this way, and I continued this practice when I picked up Ozone 8 Advanced (before I started exporting my Reason project as a stereo file to master in Ozone 8 Advanced standalone, because I couldn't stop myself from messing with my mix and constantly tweaking when I did it the other way). :lol:
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selig
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18 Oct 2018

EnochLight wrote: Same. This is the exact same reason why I do it this way, and I continued this practice when I picked up Ozone 8 Advanced (before I started exporting my Reason project as a stereo file to master in Ozone 8 Advanced standalone, because I couldn't stop myself from messing with my mix and constantly tweaking when I did it the other way). :lol:
So now do you keep messing with your mastering and constantly tweaking?
Get some self control, man! ;)


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EnochLight
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18 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
18 Oct 2018
So now do you keep messing with your mastering and constantly tweaking?
Get some self control, man! ;)
I'm not addicted - I can quit when I want to - really! :puf_bigsmile:

Lol! :lol: Yeah, trust me - it's a lot easier for me to only get caught tweaking during the mastering phase compared to how I used to constantly fiddle with faders and want to add a synth part when I was supposed to be focusing on mastering.
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selig
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18 Oct 2018

EnochLight wrote:
selig wrote:
18 Oct 2018
So now do you keep messing with your mastering and constantly tweaking?
Get some self control, man! ;)
I'm not addicted - I can quit when I want to - really! :puf_bigsmile:

Lol! :lol: Yeah, trust me - it's a lot easier for me to only get caught tweaking during the mastering phase compared to how I used to constantly fiddle with faders and want to add a synth part when I was supposed to be focusing on mastering.
I can totally relate.

That reminds me of an experience I had back in the days of printing CDs so I could test mixes in other locations (like the “car test”, etc). If I bounced the track down and printed a CD, I could easily hear all the things I needed to change on the mix, taking notes and getting it done.

BUT, if I just listened to the mix before bouncing it down, I would keep hitting stop and fixing 101 things that probably never needed fixing (and I probably also missed a bunch of things that DID need fixing).

I’m not sure what happens differently in my brain in those two cases, but somehow once I’ve committed a mix by bouncing it down, and as such I cannot stop playback and tweak things, I could just listen more broadly and find the few things actually wrong with the mix.

I’m sure others have had similar experiences…


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Kalm
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18 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
18 Oct 2018
EnochLight wrote:
I'm not addicted - I can quit when I want to - really! :puf_bigsmile:

Lol! :lol: Yeah, trust me - it's a lot easier for me to only get caught tweaking during the mastering phase compared to how I used to constantly fiddle with faders and want to add a synth part when I was supposed to be focusing on mastering.
I can totally relate.

That reminds me of an experience I had back in the days of printing CDs so I could test mixes in other locations (like the “car test”, etc). If I bounced the track down and printed a CD, I could easily hear all the things I needed to change on the mix, taking notes and getting it done.

BUT, if I just listened to the mix before bouncing it down, I would keep hitting stop and fixing 101 things that probably never needed fixing (and I probably also missed a bunch of things that DID need fixing).

I’m not sure what happens differently in my brain in those two cases, but somehow once I’ve committed a mix by bouncing it down, and as such I cannot stop playback and tweak things, I could just listen more broadly and find the few things actually wrong with the mix.

I’m sure others have had similar experiences…


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What's interesting is I've actually gotten to a point where I can mix music and literally know when it's done because

A) It's passed my mixing knowledge and ability to make it better
B) I can't add or change nothing without frowning :cry:
C) If I open this session one more fU$*)@** time !!
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