Native Instruments MK2 S88

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ast3rix
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10 Oct 2018

Hi,

I was super stoaked about the new NI MK 2 S88 keyboard, however last night I reviewed the NI websites install instructions and found that they have removed support for mcu. So I think I won’t be able to use the transport controls in reason. I just purchased this thing early in the week and am suppose to receive it Thursday. My joy just became sadness.

This is also a sad reminder of the desperately needed updates to the hardware support in reason 😹

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ast3rix
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10 Oct 2018

Hum... maybe I'm jumping the gun. I took a look at the remote map for native instruments tonight and it appears to include a transport section:

// Control Surface Item Key Remotable Item Scale Mode

Map Middle Button Stop
Map Middle Button+Modifier Record
Map Right Button Play
Map Right Button+Modifier Loop On/Off

I really hate that there's no official anything that says that this works or not. I will definitely have to post a video on this topic. If it doesn't work I'm going to research adding the elements to get the transport working. I just hate having to mess around with brand new stuff. I would rather not be worrying about this and know for sure if it works or not. I held out on getting the MK1 because I didn't like the display controls and when they released the 61 key mk2 model I figured they would eventually release an 88 key version. When I upgraded to Mojave I noticed that my digidesign midi io is now no longer being supported so I really do have to change out my controller which is currently a Triton Studio 88. I guess I will know for sure tomorrow. Geez... I feel like a little kid at Christmas waiting to open presents.

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ast3rix
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11 Oct 2018

Ok unit came in and I've got it setup, however as I expected the transport controls do not work. You can setup using a generic midi keyboard just to use the keys, but it looks like a long wait for Native Instruments to either re-introduce the MCU controls or create a real driver for Reason. It really doesn't look like either will be happening any time soon as the MK2 series is now into it's second year. Hum.. there are good and bad things with this controller.

The keybed is heavy... and if your use to that then it's ok. If you like a more light keybed... this is not for you. It really does feel like my Korg Triton Studio 88 that thing weighs 80lbs... and the keybed is super heavy. I have been playing it since the 2000's so this one actually seems a little bit lighter to me, but I know better than to tell you that... cause I have heavy hands. It works great with the included maschine vst and of course Komplete Kontrol. It comes packaged with Komplete Select 12. I have Komplete Ultimate 11 so it added a few things like: Kontakt 6 player, Ethereal Earth, Factory Selection, Scarbee Vintage Keys, Maschine 2. It also includes a midi editor which allows you to re-allocate most of the keyboard focused buttons that have CC mappings into other things... I will have to review this completely to see what I can do. Once I get my studio back together I will post a video. I have sold off all the rest of my physical gear that I have not been using. So my rack looks funny now...I need a desk that has rack spaces so I can move what I have into one area and not have a huge empty rack. Oh well... maybe next year... I really am not looking forward to pulling out all the power and audio cables in the raceway under my desk. It's like half of them really need to be removed now.

djs
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12 Oct 2018

Despite the incompatibility with Reason, would you still recommend it? How is the response with VST in reason?

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selig
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12 Oct 2018

Can you still return it? May be worth waiting for the new Novation SL MkIII, which does support Reason (I’m probably going to get this instead of the Arturia Keylab for the same “lack of Reason support” issue.

https://novationmusic.com/keys/sl-mkiii

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Selig Audio, LLC

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ast3rix
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12 Oct 2018

djs wrote:
12 Oct 2018
Despite the incompatibility with Reason, would you still recommend it? How is the response with VST in reason?
I have to say I was a bit disappointed to find out that there's no midi cc for the transport section. It means that NI is working on something for this... but what I'm not sure. It works as you would expect with Komplete Kontrol vst and wow It really does make finding sounds easy. Any vst's that support the NKS standard show up in the browser screen. I like the feel of the keybed action although it maybe too heavy for the average keyboard player. It just means I have to practice scales more to get my fingers back in shape :o). I would recommend it to Reason users... just don't purchase it with the expectation that it will integrate with Reason 100% because it doesn't. It is a good controller if that's what you're looking for... the mod wheels and the touch strip do work with the generic reason drivers. You can assign things using the buttons on top of the screen and the knobs on the bottom as they have midi cc mappings.

Also It works fine with vst's in reason.. you can map any of the knobs at the bottom and buttons at the top of the screen to any area in your vst's if you desire. No, out of the box things are not mapped to the common items in your vst's like the LFO's etc... yeah... NI and Props need to get together on this... fast.


I'm going to wait it out to see what NI does... my Sweetwater sales rep told me that they are about to roll out additional support for more DAW's. So maybe eventually we will be on the list. I hate feeling like the redheaded step child with my DAW.. we get over looked for everything, however everybody is still using it. What gives...?
Last edited by ast3rix on 12 Oct 2018, edited 1 time in total.

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ast3rix
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12 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
12 Oct 2018
Can you still return it? May be worth waiting for the new Novation SL MkIII, which does support Reason (I’m probably going to get this instead of the Arturia Keylab for the same “lack of Reason support” issue.

https://novationmusic.com/keys/sl-mkiii

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That is a nice looking controller, however I was looking for an 88 key controller that offered weighted keys. Despite the short comings of compatibility with Reason the keybed really does give me that piano feel that I'm use to and I have to say it guys... this thing is soooo sexy looking. Serious controller lust happening right here... I just wish that it supported Reason. I feel like I met the perfect guy, then he opened his mouth and said something seriously stupid.

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selig
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13 Oct 2018

ast3rix wrote: That is a nice looking controller, however I was looking for an 88 key controller that offered weighted keys. Despite the short comings of compatibility with Reason the keybed really does give me that piano feel that I'm use to and I have to say it guys... this thing is soooo sexy looking. Serious controller lust happening right here... I just wish that it supported Reason. I feel like I met the perfect guy, then he opened his mouth and said something seriously stupid.
OK, have to agree that any serious attraction to your primary controller trumps a few missing features. That’s pretty much how we make all important choices, from gear to life partners… ;)

One of these days I need a sexy 88 key controller - grew up playing piano - or better yet I need the space for a proper grand piano like I had at my last studio (ain’t nothing like the real thing, baby).
:)


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mcatalao
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14 Oct 2018

Ast3rix, you can load the remote map midi keyboard with controls and it might be a way to work it out. Im sure ni will send midi cc for the transport, so you even can map it at a document remote override level or change the remote map.

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ast3rix
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14 Oct 2018

mcatalao wrote:
14 Oct 2018
Ast3rix, you can load the remote map midi keyboard with controls and it might be a way to work it out. Im sure ni will send midi cc for the transport, so you even can map it at a document remote override level or change the remote map.

I'm exploring that route now however, it may take me some time as I experiment with trying to force the transport into the map files. I think it's not doable because there's nothing I can use as a guide. The MCU was the original guide which is why people were able to use that to make the transport work before, but now that they have removed that from code... I'm not sure if I will be able to force that into the remote map files. It really makes no sense why they would remove the MCU support. It's like they don't care about customers who were already using it in other DAW's outside of the ones that they created special integration. I have been on the forum boards and people there don't seem to be as vocal as we are about changes or at least I've not seen them be very vocal.

Yeah the transport is not assignable due to the way it's coded. I'm going to reach out to support to see if they have answers:
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MusicianX
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15 Oct 2018

I advise anyone who is considering buying any products from Native instruments to read the forums first.

djs
Posts: 98
Joined: 29 Jan 2018

15 Oct 2018

Looks like there is a long thread of complains of the lack of MCU support on the Native forums. Definitely worth a read for someone who is considering the Komplete Kontrol with Reason. The Novation SL MK3 looks enticing.

https://www.native-instruments.com/foru ... rt.329081/

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ast3rix
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16 Oct 2018

The removal of basic mcu support was a bad business decision. The right way to do this would have been to allow it and your new standard. I’m sure they are embrassed by this and are working to fix this issue. This is a software fix that can be easily resolved in a software update. My issue with this is that there really are not many controllers out there with weighted 88 keys and the feature set that this device offers. Seems like lately I’m constantly waiting for software and hardware vendors to fix their products to live up to the advertising.

Not sure if I will be keeping this controller at this point. Especially since ni has not responded to any of the complaints in the forum. I contacted support and have not received a response back yet.

I am thinking about posting a video on this issue I just cringe at the repercussions thou. I’m thinking about it... probably won’t change anything. I’ll just be another crazy lady complaining about their product.

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ast3rix
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17 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
13 Oct 2018
ast3rix wrote: That is a nice looking controller, however I was looking for an 88 key controller that offered weighted keys. Despite the short comings of compatibility with Reason the keybed really does give me that piano feel that I'm use to and I have to say it guys... this thing is soooo sexy looking. Serious controller lust happening right here... I just wish that it supported Reason. I feel like I met the perfect guy, then he opened his mouth and said something seriously stupid.
OK, have to agree that any serious attraction to your primary controller trumps a few missing features. That’s pretty much how we make all important choices, from gear to life partners… ;)

One of these days I need a sexy 88 key controller - grew up playing piano - or better yet I need the space for a proper grand piano like I had at my last studio (ain’t nothing like the real thing, baby).
:)


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I agree 100%. Ain’t nothing like the real thang... but darn it finding a substitute should not be this hard. I sat down last night and actually cranked out an R&B track with it. The longer I keep it and play on it the harder my decision to let it go is becoming. Darn it NI I hate you.

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mcatalao
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17 Oct 2018

selig wrote:
13 Oct 2018
One of these days I need a sexy 88 key controller - grew up playing piano - or better yet I need the space for a proper grand piano like I had at my last studio (ain’t nothing like the real thing, baby).
:)
Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
I'm considering a yamaha baby grand for my living room too, or at least a nice vertical piano. Both my kids are learning at conservatorium level (piano and violin respectively) and I've been upping my reading since the oldest started playing so i'm slowly getting back to reading and playing new stuff and i really miss the feel of something more organic. I mean, my yamaha p115 has a really nice tone and it has great mechanics for the price (lovely graded keyboard for a bit more than 700 eur, brand new!). But i got lucky the other day in my girls school: i had 40 minutes to kill and the manager let me play on their auditorium's Yamaha C1... Freaking lovely tone right in your face - as you said nothing beats it!!! The only problem is the price. 10K for used baby grand is out of reach at the moment!
But i keep dreaming (that and a nice Arius concerto flute...)...

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mcatalao
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17 Oct 2018

ast3rix wrote:
17 Oct 2018
(...) but darn it finding a substitute should not be this hard. I sat down last night and actually cranked out an R&B track with it. The longer I keep it and play on it the harder my decision to let it go is becoming. Darn it NI I hate you.
If all you're searching was a substitute for a grand the graded keys from the Yamaha P series are (imho) unbeatable for the price. I have a P-115, it has an amazing tone (really big improvement over the P35 and P45 - it has half pedalling, string ressonance, the sampled piano is really good and it has 128 notes polyphony so sustains are really natural) and it's an amazing keyboard for the price.
Of course in your case the tone is not an issue, as you'll be mainly controlling Reason and VST's but i have some doubt even with a fatar keybed NI s88 is a better keyboard. The only issue with this is that it does not have pitch bend.

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ast3rix
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17 Oct 2018

[/quote]

If all you're searching was a substitute for a grand the graded keys from the Yamaha P series are (imho) unbeatable for the price. I have a P-115, it has an amazing tone (really big improvement over the P35 and P45 - it has half pedalling, string ressonance, the sampled piano is really good and it has 128 notes polyphony so sustains are really natural) and it's an amazing keyboard for the price.
Of course in your case the tone is not an issue, as you'll be mainly controlling Reason and VST's but i have some doubt even with a fatar keybed NI s88 is a better keyboard. The only issue with this is that it does not have pitch bend.
[/quote]

I have been using the patch selection features with the komplete kontrol and I have to say that it is impressive. The mod wheel and the touch strip are nice to haves as well. It’s making this decision even more difficult outside of the keybed. I have been working on my reading and playing for awhile so the need for the weighted action is a must, plus after playing a weighted keybed for several years it’s hard to play anything else. This really is a tough call. I never thought that an 88 keybed was such a niche market, but I suppose that it really is just that.

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