Confused about signal path for inserts

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PeterP
Posts: 84
Joined: 26 Apr 2016
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

02 Oct 2018

If I drop an effect on top of an audio track, does that mean that it's placed "before" the mixer channel?

I'd like to achieve [ Guitar -> Softube amp -> SSL comp + eq -> Phaser ] but it looks like the amp is ending up after the SSL comp + eq?

And if I try to create a parallel channel from this then it ignores the Softube amp but includes the Phaser, isn't the parallel channel tapped from the "end" of the original channel?

antic604

02 Oct 2018

PeterP wrote:
02 Oct 2018
If I drop an effect on top of an audio track, does that mean that it's placed "before" the mixer channel?

I'd like to achieve [ Guitar -> Softube amp -> SSL comp + eq -> Phaser ] but it looks like the amp is ending up after the SSL comp + eq?

And if I try to create a parallel channel from this then it ignores the Softube amp but includes the Phaser, isn't the parallel channel tapped from the "end" of the original channel?
Read the manual. It's all there...

Placing an effects outside of the Insert slot (so, below the instrument or mixer channel) means it will be processed before it even goes to the SSL mixer. If you put an effect into the Insert slot, the signal will first go through SSL's dynamics section (compressor & gate), then through EQ and then through the effect. You can change the order at the top of the SSL.

If I'm not mistaken parallel out is indeed at the end of the channel, before it goes through the SSL.

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tiker01
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02 Oct 2018

In case of audio channels there is no under the channel (in the rack) only inserts. I think you could route the signal of the Audio channel via its Direct out in the Rack to another Mix channel and add the Phaser as an insert there.

Parallel channels get the pristine signal without any processing of the mother channel!
    
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Carly(Poohbear)
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02 Oct 2018

This may help little in understanding the signal flow.

A parallel would be tapped off between the All Mix Input and the Input on the diagram..
Signal Flow less colour.jpg
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To do what you want you could do something like this (which has already been pointed out).
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Capture.JPG
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selig
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Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

02 Oct 2018

PeterP wrote:
02 Oct 2018
If I drop an effect on top of an audio track, does that mean that it's placed "before" the mixer channel?

I'd like to achieve [ Guitar -> Softube amp -> SSL comp + eq -> Phaser ] but it looks like the amp is ending up after the SSL comp + eq?

And if I try to create a parallel channel from this then it ignores the Softube amp but includes the Phaser, isn't the parallel channel tapped from the "end" of the original channel?
At the default settings, all inserts are indeed post dynamics/EQ, so you'll need to make a few changes to achieve what you want.
BTW - Audio Channels are different from Mix Channels, in that you cannot patch FX devices BEFORE the channel input (without the workaround of adding another channel).

Taking a slightly different approach…
I would consider patching the Phaser before the Amp, like a guitarist would do with a pedal. This also simplifies your setup. To do this, click on the "INSERTS PRE" button at the top of the channel in the INPUT section here:
Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 8.56.56 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-10-02 at 8.56.56 AM.png (24.52 KiB) Viewed 1103 times
Now you can drag the phaser and the amp (in that order) into the channel from the Rack or Sequencer view, or use the browser buttons from the Mixer view.

This will give you: Phaser, Amp, Input, Dynamics, EQ, Fader, Output.

If for some reason you still want the setup you mention originally, do everything the same as above but leave out the phaser, and put it on a send/return instead. This will place the phaser after all of the other processing and not require any additional patching/routing. With this routing, set your phaser's mix (dry/wet) control to 100% wet, and uses the send to determine the "amount" (a setting to 0dB on the send is equal to 50% dry/wet)
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PeterP
Posts: 84
Joined: 26 Apr 2016
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden

02 Oct 2018

Thank you everone!
antic604 wrote:
02 Oct 2018
Read the manual. It's all there...
I did stare intensely at the diagrams at page 81 and 82, but I guess I can be a bit daft sometimes :)

tiker01 wrote:
02 Oct 2018
In case of audio channels there is no under the channel (in the rack) only inserts.
Aha.. This is exactly what I didn't understand! I didn't realize that it's different from how instruments work.


@Poohbear, @Selig,
Thank you for the clarifications and tips.

So the conclusion is that if I really want to use the SSL channel in between two audio effects then I need to use either two mixer channels or a send effect.

It might not be worth the extra hassle, I could just use a different compressor and eq and put it all into a Combinator then. A minor inconvenience but not the end of the world. :)

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

02 Oct 2018

PeterP wrote:
02 Oct 2018
Thank you everone!
antic604 wrote:
02 Oct 2018
Read the manual. It's all there...
I did stare intensely at the diagrams at page 81 and 82, but I guess I can be a bit daft sometimes :)

tiker01 wrote:
02 Oct 2018
In case of audio channels there is no under the channel (in the rack) only inserts.
Aha.. This is exactly what I didn't understand! I didn't realize that it's different from how instruments work.


@Poohbear, @Selig,
Thank you for the clarifications and tips.

So the conclusion is that if I really want to use the SSL channel in between two audio effects then I need to use either two mixer channels or a send effect.

It might not be worth the extra hassle, I could just use a different compressor and eq and put it all into a Combinator then. A minor inconvenience but not the end of the world. :)
That's the curse/blessing of Reason: there are SO many ways you can do this (we could all probably list 4-5 MORE ways to accomplish the same signal flow). The idea is to take in all the different approaches, and find the one that not only gives you the desired result but also makes the most sense to you, as this will allow your workflow to move as effortlessly as possible when you are working intensely and can't afford to stop and "think" too much about signal flow. Eventually you'll find your "ways" and the process will become transparent.
Selig Audio, LLC

Jowe79
Posts: 74
Joined: 17 Aug 2016
Location: Barcelona

22 Jan 2020

Sorry Selig when you tells “ BTW - Audio Channels are different from Mix Channels, in that you cannot patch FX devices BEFORE the channel input (without the workaround of adding another channel).” what means?? I can’t add inserts effects in slot insert in AUDIO TRACK?
When i create instrument.. automatically creates mixer channel... but i create audio track in ssl crrates audio track channel and the rack audio track... but this audio track i see insert slot too... thanks...

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selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

22 Jan 2020

Jowe79 wrote:
22 Jan 2020
Sorry Selig when you tells “ BTW - Audio Channels are different from Mix Channels, in that you cannot patch FX devices BEFORE the channel input (without the workaround of adding another channel).” what means?? I can’t add inserts effects in slot insert in AUDIO TRACK?
When i create instrument.. automatically creates mixer channel... but i create audio track in ssl crrates audio track channel and the rack audio track... but this audio track i see insert slot too... thanks...
Only the Mix Channel as inputs on the back. The Audio Channel instead takes its audio from the sequencer, or from the input assigned to the audio track in the sequencer (when in input monitor mode). Both Channel types have inserts (as do Bus Channel and Parallel Channels).
Is that what you were asking?
Selig Audio, LLC

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