Upcoming Reason 10.x update to address VST-Performance: how much is good enough for you?

[EnochLight]

With the upcoming free update by the end of the year that is to address Reason's lackluster VST-performance, I was curious to see how much of a performance increase would be "good enough" to satisfy your needs. Please vote, and you're welcome to change your vote. If you don't use VST in Reason, or no amount of performance increase is going to satisfy you, please don't participate. I'm really only interested in seeing what's going to make VST-users experiencing show-stopping performance limits compared to their other DAW's they may use, or compare Reason to.

I realize there's only 3 options, but I figured these are the 3 categories that would apply to most (and I suppose these would be averages). Anything under 75%, IMHO, is just not acceptable performance if Reason is to truly be a viable alternative for other VST-hosts. Or maybe it is. I really don't know.

Thanks!

UPDATE: please note that this poll is primarily talking about track count (as in, how many instances of a VST you can get in Reason compared to other DAW).

[Loque]

Ambitious...realistic would be max 50%. Enough for me would be 2 times faster than every other DAW, which means i will complain regardless how they optimize it

Joking aside...as long as i can work, everything is fine. Tbh, i need a 32 core with 1nm technique and 10ghz and support for my SLI high end gfx boards.

Actually i have something like this:

IBM_704_mainframe.gif (80.15 KiB) Viewed 5134 times

[EnochLight]

Ambitious...realistic would be max 50%.

So for every 50 instances of a VST you can run in another DAW, only getting 25 in Reason is considered realistic? I don't know, that seems a little low IMHO.

Enough for me would be 2 times faster than every other DAW, which means i will complain regardless how they optimize it

LOL! Yeah, I expect that anything under a noticeable amount exceeding other DAW's performance is actually pretty unrealistic, but I appreciate your candor.

Joking aside...as long as i can work, everything is fine. Tbh, i need a 32 core with 1nm technique and 10ghz and support for my SLI high end gfx boards.

Actually i have something like this:
IBM_704_mainframe.gif

Hahah - I want that computer too!

[antic604]

I've not voted because the 2nd option misses the word "comparable". It is well known that more modular DAWs - Bitwig, Live - perform worse than traditional, linear ones - Cubase, Reaper, Logic, Studio One - simply because the latter can pre-buffer stuff that's playing on unarmed tracks and therefore can do more DSP.

So myself I'd be happy if Reason matched Bitwig or Live's VST performance, which means 10-20% improvement for most plugins, 50-70% for selected troublesome plugins.

[Oquasec]

Any improvement is welcome, no other daw uses RE except this one.

[EnochLight]

I've not voted because the 2nd option misses the word "comparable".

I modified it, taking your post into consideration. Can you vote now?

[EnochLight]

Any improvement is welcome, no other daw uses RE except this one.

I agree any improvement is welcome, but whether or not other DAW use RE is unrelated to this. My question is directed towards users who actually use VST in Reason (and/or other DAW) and are relying on the upcoming VST-performance update to address their concerns.

[scratchnsnifff]

I will say that Reason should be able to do a full song using vst. Say at least 10-30 instruments all with about 3 effects per track (rough guess)

I’d like to make a dubstep tune using only serum, synthmaster one, and maybe avenger here and there

I’m not looking for super crazy vst performance because I want the focus of development to be on the Reason side. I love rack extensions. I can’t get use to this floating window concept.

Vst looks way cooler, but everything feels so different.

But still please do update the performance I wonder if the entire update will be about vst? I wonder if they will throw in an Easter Egg for the reason only crowd

[chimp_spanner]

It's hard to say because I'm not sure we know exactly how much Reason is under performing by. Like I've tested Serum in Cubase and in Reason. Can't remember the exact results but it was something like 21 instances in Cubase and 18-19 in Reason. But that's just one synth. It might be that different combinations of devices will produce different results on different machines with different hardware and software configurations. I would hope during testing of this new version that we can establish a sort of base-line for Reason's current performance that disregards all these variables and gives us something solid to compare.

[Zac]

For me i just hope that while they have this team of experts working on the core program they take full advantage to make any changes that are necessary not only for vsts but also for other issues that are on the horizon.

[miscend]

It should at least be as good as Reaper or Logic.

[Resonator]

Performance, stability, and VST3 compatibility is a must.

[NekujaK]

I'm so tired of shuddering with worry every time I want to add a new insert or instrument to a project, or having to make creative decisions based on Reason's restrictive performance limitations. Reason doesn't have to be the absolute best performing DAW on the block, but it should be able to handle industrial-strength projects without the specter of poor performance constantly looming overhead.

[chaosroyale]

The modular rack nature of Reason means that there is no way to directly compare "performance" with other typical DAWs. It is highly dependent on your style of routing/CV and the kinds of VSTs you use. So this poll isn't especially meaningful.

In ideal situations Reaper can probably run literally ten times more VST instances than Reason. But there is no way Reason can or even needs to come close to that. Reason simply needs to be a lot lighter than it is now. How much lighter they can make it, I guess we will see by the end of the year. Even double the number of instances would be a big deal compared to now.

[ltbrunt00]

I have had and currently experience VST issues in Studio One 4 and Bitwig 2. All I care about is that things get fixed over time.

So far the DAWs with reason have been pretty good at fixing issues and optimization.

In my reason projects my VST to RE ratio is now like 60/40 or 80/20 depending on the song. I generally have very few issues having many VST plugins loaded at once. Since Reason 9.5 I don't have hardly any problems.

[Emian]

i voted option 3, because i understand that the modular environment of Reason is unique.

I basically want to be able to make a full track, without having to bounce tracks, using about 5 synths, Maschine VST for drums, effects and maybe some plugins in the master section. i'd like to do that on my i7 4790K wich isn't an unreasonable expectation i believe...

[EnochLight]

The modular rack nature of Reason means that there is no way to directly compare "performance" with other typical DAWs. It is highly dependent on your style of routing/CV and the kinds of VSTs you use. So this poll isn't especially meaningful.

i voted option 3, because i understand that the modular environment of Reason is unique.

Actually, it's not unique. There is just as much modular routing available in DAW such as Bitwig, and it is arguably a lot easier to manage than Reason.

Be that as it may, let's assume for the sake of this poll, we're only talking VST (as in, how many instances you can run). I think the poll is quite meaningful in this sense.

[Emian]

well i still choose option 3 anyway, it's the choice least possible to be dissapointed

[EnochLight]

well i still choose option 3 anyway, it's the choice least possible to be dissapointed

Lol! Very true.

[jlgrimes]

The modular rack nature of Reason means that there is no way to directly compare "performance" with other typical DAWs. It is highly dependent on your style of routing/CV and the kinds of VSTs you use. So this poll isn't especially meaningful.

In ideal situations Reaper can probably run literally ten times more VST instances than Reason. But there is no way Reason can or even needs to come close to that. Reason simply needs to be a lot lighter than it is now. How much lighter they can make it, I guess we will see by the end of the year. Even double the number of instances would be a big deal compared to now.

I wonder if it is more or so that in Reason you can have many mini sequencers that can play music even with the play button stopped, which means something must need to always be listening for a step sequencer to start and allocate resources to that.

From a routing standpoint (or even CV) other DAWS might not work totally the same as Reason but can have just as abstract routing/modulation such as Reaper (Routing Matrix, Parameter Modulation), or even Live (M4L). What I don't think they do have though is separate sequencers (like Reason) that can trigger music even when sequencer is stopped (other than live midi input).

[EnochLight]

I wonder if it is more or so that in Reason you can have many mini sequencers that can play music even with the play button stopped, which means something must need to always be listening for a step sequencer to start and allocate resources to that.

From a routing standpoint (or even CV) other DAWS might not work totally the same as Reason but can have just as abstract routing/modulation such as Reaper (Routing Matrix, Parameter Modulation), or even Live (M4L). What I don't think they do have though is separate sequencers (like Reason) that can trigger music even when sequencer is stopped (other than live midi input).

Slightly related: I was just talking to someone about this very thing over at KVR. Reason doesn't require a sequencer track for any of its devices to be modulated. That's pretty unique to Reason.

[Kalm]

At this point, Reason needs to be better, and I don't mean feature wise. It needs to be fast, elegant, and workflow savvy. To me Reason's direct competitor is Ableton and needs to be toe-to-toe with them

[NekujaK]

If the Props can achieve Reason 9.0 level performance with VSTs, I'd be delighted.

I have no idea how Reason 9.0 performed versus other DAWs - that's because everything ran smoothly enough that I never needed to bother comparing!

[normen]

The modular rack nature of Reason means that there is no way to directly compare "performance" with other typical DAWs. It is highly dependent on your style of routing/CV and the kinds of VSTs you use. So this poll isn't especially meaningful.

i voted option 3, because i understand that the modular environment of Reason is unique.

Actually, it's not unique. There is just as much modular routing available in DAW such as Bitwig, and it is arguably a lot easier to manage than Reason.

Be that as it may, let's assume for the sake of this poll, we're only talking VST (as in, how many instances you can run). I think the poll is quite meaningful in this sense.

Yeah, so to compare apples with apples did you compare Bitwig and Reason with modulation? Would be interesting to know.

[botnotbot]

It should at least be as good as Reaper or Logic.

Those are arguably the two best performing DAWs on the market, though.