Reason Compact makes me angry at Propellerhead

[mark999]

Reason compact has been out for a couple of weeks and it still feels horribly unfinished. The first few days after the launch, many things were broken, we couldn't even make in-app purchases. After a quick update from Propellerhead, in-app purchases started working but

- we still can't preview / listen to the sounds before purchasing.
- there is still also no mention inside (or outside) the app about what other instruments are coming, and when.
- swiping through Europa screens in the app is tedious (having to swipe left or right 10 times if you want to get from the first screen to the last)
- no count-in option for the metronome
- extremely limiting 8 bar loop length
- no drums, and ZERO additional instruments available
- Featured soundpacks make no mention of how many sounds are included, they expect you to buy them without being able to listen or preview to see what you're getting for your money

It's a horribly unfinished and prematurely released app, that is definitely not Reason in any way shape or form.
This kind of incompetence (releasing an app in this state) is very upsetting for me. This is exactly the type of behaviour that makes me lose respect for Propellerhead as a company. On their Facebook page, I look at photos of their staff sitting around a big desk in their office, I can't help but wonder how they can all sit there is silence and release a product in such a bad state. Why doesn't anybody speak up to say "Hey, this app is a piece of junk, and releasing it in such a bad state will ruin our company's reputation"

As an example, KORG Gadget launched about 5 years ago, it came with a whole suite of instruments, a proper sequencer and beautiful screenshots and descriptions of included instruments. By comparison, Reason Compact launched with broken functionality, missing instruments, no sequencer, no descriptions or any information whatsoever, it's called "Reason Compact" it has nothing to do with reason and to make matters worse, there is complete silence from the company. It wouldn't take more than 15 minutes in Photoshop to make a quick banner about what we can expect in the future, but we're not even getting that.

[kuhliloach]

I agree. The problem is the archaic for-profit business model of capitalism. Mostly a dead horse concept at this point. It makes quality coding and innovation nearly impossible. Quality development is community driven, not something that can happen properly within the tiny walls of a small business. What we get are scraps. Scraps of ideas. Scraps of code. Whatever is left after CEO's take their cut.

The real mistake here is the naming of the product. In no way does it deserve to be called "Reason". Heck other companies make a better iOS Reason, such as Caustic by Rejean Poirier.

[michael.jaye]

My thoughts and prayers go out to you in these most troubling of times.

[Faastwalker]

On their Facebook page, I look at photos of their staff sitting around a big desk in their office, I can't help but wonder how they can all sit there is silence and release a product in such a bad state.

This crossed my mind as well when I had a play with 'Reason' Compact & then realised what it actually was. The idea that there would have been meetings where they concluded a hugely hampered Europa, laden with IAP's & called 'Reason Compact' was a good thing to release?!! Clearly I'm not, as a long time Reason user, the target market here.

This feels more like a product for the iOS App Store mentality, not one for Reason fans. More so it feels like a cheap marketing campaign for Reason. A kind of interactive advert! It's pretty shoddy. Of course there is talk of where this will go & things to come in the future. If it gets there, fantastic. I'll be all over it. But it's a long way off from what it is currently.

[Resonator]

With Europa being crippled and having to scroll through parameter pages like that, I don’t expect much from whatever new devices may be added. $10 to unlock Europa isn’t worth it for me. I’d rather buy another gadget for Korg Gadget. At least I’d get my money’s worth there.

[Undistraction]

I hear you. A deeply flawed and cynical release that is going nowhere.

I don't think you can blame Propellerhead's developers though. This is down to the product managers and the VC money behind them.

[16161d]

The IAP don't bother me for this app, I think it's kind of nice that we can have some Europa functionality for free, and I don't think it would make sense to just release the full synth for free except out of good will. IAP can be a huge turn off for many people though. I can't help but feel this could have great potential, we all see the potential here that props have been teasing for awhile now with their porting Europa around and what this could mean for other rack devices. But they really have messed up in how they've been presenting this app. They really should have released it with a few more instruments, watered down with IAP even, or just release it without IAP and the full Europa synth (other instruments available as modules). I don't think it was released in it's current state as a method of gathering feedback, I don't think theres many people who wouldn't have jumped on this immediately if it was more fully featured, just for being able to work on patches on the go and access them in the studio (this is the main selling point for the Thor ios app for me too). It's been a few weeks now, they've only just added bluetooth, but that's not really enough to sustain any hype. By now word would of got around that this isn't that impressive, and it's already been very divisive by pissing off android users, I know there's good reason why it can't come to android right now but the point still remains that this has had a bad start and I don't think there's much that can save it, with mine, yours and all the other bad feedback on this, I'm not sure props will even want to continue investing any time into this.

I'd say they'll probably release some sort of drum module and 1 other thing then call it complete and rake in the IAP. I'm a little worried that perhaps they're not making enough money out of RE's and Reason to have released an app in this state, was there really any need at all to rush it? Someone made the call that enough time had been spent on this app and that it's time to move on, I wouldn't be surprised if only a skeleton crew remains working on it now. If these were healthier times for props, this could of have been a really special thing, it may have even helped them push Reason forward. Well maybe now Reason will start getting some more modern features, but this app has left a bad taste that the props we knew have changed. I'm still hopeful that they have some great things to work with, a potential still remains with their experiments in porting Europa, and I hope that reason compact isn't going to be the last we see of that work.

[antic604]

Today I've read and watched some videos about Cubasis 2.6 and I really don't know how Props are planning to compete with that: it's basically a full-fledged DAW with audio, MIDI, automation, native & 3rd party instrument and FX plugins, controller integration... Running on a iPad.

@Props, admit you're (too) late to the game and focus on the desktop software instead.

[avasopht]

I agree. The problem is the archaic for-profit business model of capitalism. Mostly a dead horse concept at this point. It makes quality coding and innovation nearly impossible. Quality development is community driven, not something that can happen properly within the tiny walls of a small business. What we get are scraps. Scraps of ideas. Scraps of code. Whatever is left after CEO's take their cut.

Errm, there is no community driven software that comes close to Reason, Studio One, Cubase, Logic, Waves, Kontakt Komplete Ultimate, EWQL, Visual Studio, Jetbrain's products, Adobe suite, Office (no, Open Office is not community driven, it was created by a commercial company and is funded by capitalism).

Just no.

No community driven video games or movies that can even come close to rivalling the worst of Electronic Arts and Fox. Linux just copied Unix. It was only relevant because it was a free alternative to Unix.

Just. No.

Your most common frameworks (React.js, Boostrap and Angular) are all made by capitalism. Node.js is the result of capitalism (Google's V8). C++ was Bell Labs. Java was Sun Microsystems. C was Bell Labs. Smalltalk was Xerox Parc. The first Graphical User Interface, also Xerox Parc.

No.

The real mistake here is the naming of the product. In no way does it deserve to be called "Reason". Heck other companies make a better iOS Reason, such as Caustic by Rejean Poirier.

Caustic is pretty awesome.

[miscend]

I agree the app feels way too premature at the moment, almost to the point of being unusable for anything serious. Even the iOS version of Rebirth was much more feature complete and rock solid at launch all those many years ago. However Figure kind of launched in a similar premature state - you couldn't even save or load songs in the very first release.

[Social Exodus]

And here I sit wondering why anyone wants a DAW on their phone.

Man, I must be OLD lol!

[Undistraction]

And here I sit wondering why anyone wants a DAW on their phone.

Man, I must be OLD lol!

Or in the case of Reason Compact, why anyone would want a bungled pay-to-unlock novelty synth that isn't even close to being a DAW on their phone.

[Social Exodus]

And here I sit wondering why anyone wants a DAW on their phone.

Man, I must be OLD lol!

Or in the case of Reason Compact, why anyone would want a bungled pay-to-unlock novelty synth that isn't even close to being a DAW on their phone.

Or that...

[joeyluck]

Or in the case of Reason Compact, why anyone would want a bungled pay-to-unlock novelty synth that isn't even close to being a DAW on their phone.

Or that...

I'm using it on my iPad and because I'm primarily a laptop and desktop user, I find it pretty useful. I've started a few ideas on Reason Compact and imported them into Reason later to finish. I can easily replace Europa with anything with a simple drag and drop. Perfect for sketching ideas. It will be very useful once they add just a few more features and drums.

I like the idea of getting things out and letting people play with them rather than sitting on them. It also helps with further development to get feedback about the current approach before getting too far ahead.

Funny that back when people found out Propellerhead was looking to do a mobile app people complained about resources being used to do such a thing instead of working on Reason itself...now people are complaining that they aren't throwing enough at it.

[fieldframe]

I like the idea of a completely rethought version of Reason for mobile devices, but I don't see how Reason Compact is going to ever get there. It doesn't seem like the right foundation for that; it feels more like the beginnings of an expandable version of ReBirth than the beginnings of a mobile DAW.

Don't get me wrong, an expandable ReBirth with modern instruments would be cool (and compatibility with existing Rack Extensions would be incredible), but the Reason name is a misleading choice for the product.

[dioxide]

Funny that back when people found out Propellerhead was looking to do a mobile app people complained about resources being used to do such a thing instead of working on Reason itself...now people are complaining that they aren't throwing enough at it.

Those are probably different people saying different things. I'm not keen on the idea of a tablet version of Reason (laptops are already mobile enough for me) but I think the general idea is "go big or go home". There are a lot of good and complete iOS music apps out there already (Korg Gadget anyone?) so if you don't intend to seriously compete with them, put your resources into the desktop app. I know people say that it isn't the same people working on Mobile as Desktop but resources = money and if you can't use it to hire coders for the main app, you could still use that money to improve Remote mapping, developer support or anything else. I'm mean I'm all for Reason Compact if it becomes a revenue stream, it's just as a free app I think most people will fiddle with it a bit and then forget about it. Which means it is heading for the same app graveyard that Thor iOS resides in.

[GRIFTY]

Funny that back when people found out Propellerhead was looking to do a mobile app people complained about resources being used to do such a thing instead of working on Reason itself...now people are complaining that they aren't throwing enough at it.

I didn't even know they did this. Frankly, what a huge waste of their time. I'm insulted they would waste resources on this crap when the full size DAW is such a dumpster fire

[Social Exodus]

Funny that back when people found out Propellerhead was looking to do a mobile app people complained about resources being used to do such a thing instead of working on Reason itself...now people are complaining that they aren't throwing enough at it.

As for myself, I don't get my pants into a twist over what Propellerheads does one way or the other because I am happy with what I have and anything more is just gravy to me -- especially after being left in the lurch by Gibson with Cakwalk's SONAR.

I just wouldn't be able to see and properly manipulate any sort of DAW on my cell phone lol

[joeyluck]

One thing to note about Korg Gadget is it certainly makes the desktop version a very tough sale. Aside from having the VSTs included to use in another DAW, the software is so much the same, that users of the iOS version are much less likely to purchase the desktop version for considerably more money than the mobile app that gives them much of the same thing.

The Reason Compact app, while it can most certainly use more, leaves a bit to be desired to explore importing it into Reason to further edit and continue writing and maybe inspiring folks to explore Reason a bit, which is free to demo. The goal should be to inform people about Reason while also not cannibalizing that potential for exploration. That is not there so much for Korg Gadget. Might not be quite there yet for Reason, but it's definitely on the right track. I think finding the best compromise for that type of strategy is a bit more complicated than some make it out to be.

[kuhliloach]

Errm, there is no community driven software that comes close to Reason, Studio One, Cubase, Logic, Waves, Kontakt Komplete Ultimate, EWQL, Visual Studio, Jetbrain's products, Adobe suite, Office (no, Open Office is not community driven, it was created by a commercial company and is funded by capitalism).

Just no.

No community driven video games or movies that can even come close to rivalling the worst of Electronic Arts and Fox. Linux just copied Unix. It was only relevant because it was a free alternative to Unix.

Just. No.

Your most common frameworks (React.js, Boostrap and Angular) are all made by capitalism. Node.js is the result of capitalism (Google's V8). C++ was Bell Labs. Java was Sun Microsystems. C was Bell Labs. Smalltalk was Xerox Parc. The first Graphical User Interface, also Xerox Parc.

No.

Caustic is pretty awesome.

Blender is open-source. Reaper is open-source. Caustic was seemingly written by a single guy. Or take a Skyrim. Not open source, but when modded by a community becomes something magical. My point is more about the limitations imposed by non-open-source; it smashes dreams. Then there's the open-source VCV Rack which is possibly the hottest most cutting-edge piece of modular audio software ever made.

[Faastwalker]

With regards to Propellerhead resources - I think I'm correct in saying that Propellerhead have been advertisting / hiring mobile developers for some time now. So the impact of mobile development on Reason develpment I don't think is an issue.

As for Reason Compact being a Cubasis style mobile DAW - Seems hugely ambitious from what we have with 'Reason' Compact. But personally I don't think it needs to go this far. I never wanted Reason sqaushed down for mobile devices. More a Reason sketchpad that was simple an more suited to the platform. 'Reason' Compact has planted the seed for this I think. But that's all it feels like at the moment. A seed. It's got a hell of a lot of growing to do before it gets to the Reason sketchpad I have in mind.

The saving grace for me is the ability to export your little 8-bar Europa Figure loops to Reason. Fantastic! Now we just need the ability to create more stuff to export. Longer loops, more sounds & devices, more tracks, audio to MIDI to capture ideas on the go, basic audio editing, drums, FX, sampling, interesting controllers to take advantage of the touch screen. There's a lot they could add, which brings me to AIP's

If Propellerhead are going down the AIP route you'd have to assume that each new feature they add could potentially be an AIP. I wondered if the MIDI input was going to be an AIP but they thought better of it? Not inconceivable. Moog's Animoog has a MIDI-out function but it's an AIP. Not a huge fan of AIP's. But I guess it's the App store way so we're probably stuck with it.

[antic604]

As for Reason Compact being a Cubasis style mobile DAW - Seems hugely ambitious from what we have with 'Reason' Compact. But personally I don't think it needs to go this far. I never wanted Reason sqaushed down for mobile devices. More a Reason sketchpad that was simple an more suited to the platform. 'Reason' Compact has planted the seed for this I think. But that's all it feels like at the moment. A seed. It's got a hell of a lot of growing to do before it gets to the Reason sketchpad I have in mind.

The saving grace for me is the ability to export your little 8-bar Europa Figure loops to Reason. Fantastic! Now we just need the ability to create more stuff to export. Longer loops, more sounds & devices, more tracks, audio to MIDI to capture ideas on the go, basic audio editing, drums, FX, sampling, interesting controllers to take advantage of the touch screen. There's a lot they could add, which brings me to AIP's

So basically you don't know what you want - you say you don't want Compact to become Cubasis or FL Mobile, yet in 2nd paragraph you describe exactly those apps...

[Faastwalker]

As for Reason Compact being a Cubasis style mobile DAW - Seems hugely ambitious from what we have with 'Reason' Compact. But personally I don't think it needs to go this far. I never wanted Reason sqaushed down for mobile devices. More a Reason sketchpad that was simple an more suited to the platform. 'Reason' Compact has planted the seed for this I think. But that's all it feels like at the moment. A seed. It's got a hell of a lot of growing to do before it gets to the Reason sketchpad I have in mind.

The saving grace for me is the ability to export your little 8-bar Europa Figure loops to Reason. Fantastic! Now we just need the ability to create more stuff to export. Longer loops, more sounds & devices, more tracks, audio to MIDI to capture ideas on the go, basic audio editing, drums, FX, sampling, interesting controllers to take advantage of the touch screen. There's a lot they could add, which brings me to AIP's

So basically you don't know what you want - you say you don't want Compact to become Cubasis or FL Mobile, yet in 2nd paragraph you describe exactly those apps...

What I was trying to say (and not very well evidently) is that I don't think Reason desktop on the mobile platform is the way forward. Reason squashed down for the platform I don't think would be the way to go. Cubasis iOS is like a mini Cubase. But it's fiddly & awkward in use. Desktop Apps I don't think translate particularly well to touchscreen devices. But that doesn't mean you have to leave out features. You just have to do it in a way that works well on the platform. I must say Propellerhead have been amazing at coming up with solutions to this so far. Thor demonstrated this. 'Reason' Compact continues it. But I see Reason Compact (or at least what I hope it develops into) as being very different to Reason desktop & not just a squashed down version of it. But ultimately you would be able to export your Reason Compact songs as Reason files to open in the full desktop version.

[avasopht]

Blender is open-source. Reaper is open-source. Caustic was seemingly written by a single guy. Or take a Skyrim. Not open source, but when modded by a community becomes something magical. My point is more about the limitations imposed by non-open-source; it smashes dreams. Then there's the open-source VCV Rack which is possibly the hottest most cutting-edge piece of modular audio software ever made.

Do note that Blender development was commercially funded until something like v2.2 - hardly a poster child for open-source, which came very late in its development. Reaper is not open-source.

Caustic is cool, though pretty small in scope. There are some other pieces of software by single developers like mutools.

I'm not doubting there aren't examples of community or even solo developed products of great value. Martin Korth, for example, had a superior Nintendo DS emulator compared to the official one, which he developed in absence of the insider hardware knowledge or development resources the official emulator developers had.

Large products need dedicated core development just to hope to be okay. You're not going to get anything like Reason developed in someone's spare time on weekends and after work. And nobody's going to sit down for a few years and develop something like that to be giving away the source-code. Ardour is cool though.

I've seen a few interesting open-source communities trying to build competitive software but it's hard to really be on par with teams who are being paid to develop a product full-time. Talented developers need to eat and buy nice things too!

[QVprod]

Blender is open-source. Reaper is open-source. Caustic was seemingly written by a single guy. Or take a Skyrim. Not open source, but when modded by a community becomes something magical. My point is more about the limitations imposed by non-open-source; it smashes dreams. Then there's the open-source VCV Rack which is possibly the hottest most cutting-edge piece of modular audio software ever made.

Reaper isn't open source. All of the popular DAWs are all commercially owned. Open source doesn't allow "less limitations" otherwise Ardour would be popular... It's not, nor is it as feature rich as any commercially owned DAW. Capital is what pays people to keep working on new features.