Easiest way to build an "always-on" sample-based noise generator in Reason?

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househoppin09
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11 Sep 2018

As the topic indicates, I need to build a noise generator in Reason that uses a sample as the noise source, and it needs to be "always-on"--that is, generating the noise at all times, even when the song isn't playing. I shudder to think at the sheer number of ways there must be to do this, so it would be great if you all could chime in with your ideas. The easier and quicker to build, the better! :)

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Libraquaricorn
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11 Sep 2018

Here is a very simple noise generator (saved in a combinator) using only the free rack extension Little LFO (wich has both audio and cv out):

https://filetransfer.io/data-package/BvJoGbLt

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Libraquaricorn
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11 Sep 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
As the topic indicates, I need to build a noise generator in Reason that uses a sample as the noise source, and it needs to be "always-on"--that is, generating the noise at all times, even when the song isn't playing. I shudder to think at the sheer number of ways there must be to do this, so it would be great if you all could chime in with your ideas. The easier and quicker to build, the better! :)
Oh, it's supposed to be sample based....sorry! :oops:

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Ahornberg
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11 Sep 2018

I would be interested too. I couldn't find a way to do it (except using a VST like NI Reaktor but that would not be simple and easy).

EdGrip
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11 Sep 2018

I *think* you could set up a Matrix, playing the relevant note. Sequence 1 note long, note tied.

The only problem is this might not present a Gate On signal to initially trigger the note. In which case you'll have to make a Gate On signal that is triggered with "Run" and then stays on - remember the Gate and Note signals don't both have to come from the same device.
Or maybe have a Matrix "pattern 1", starting with a non-tied note to generate the Gate On signal, and then once that's going on, use the sequencer to switch to the 1-tied-note "pattern 2".

I'm not in a position to test this all out right now, sorry.

Either press Run, or it'll run anyway when the sequencer starts.

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Loque
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11 Sep 2018

Load a sample in Grain and use the S/H effect.
Reason12, Win10

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Libraquaricorn
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11 Sep 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
As the topic indicates, I need to build a noise generator in Reason that uses a sample as the noise source, and it needs to be "always-on"--that is, generating the noise at all times, even when the song isn't playing. I shudder to think at the sheer number of ways there must be to do this, so it would be great if you all could chime in with your ideas. The easier and quicker to build, the better! :)
What about this: Grain in a combinator with a pulsar triggering its gate with a random signal at full speed and amplitude at all times, like the one I made here (without a sample loaded into it). It keeps generating noise even when you stop the song in the transport:

https://filetransfer.io/data-package/sbNRyq2P

I presume you mean a noise generator using a loaded sample and not sampling of live audio from the song(?)

househoppin09
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11 Sep 2018

Some interesting ideas so far, thanks!
Libraquaricorn wrote:
11 Sep 2018
househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
As the topic indicates, I need to build a noise generator in Reason that uses a sample as the noise source, and it needs to be "always-on"--that is, generating the noise at all times, even when the song isn't playing. I shudder to think at the sheer number of ways there must be to do this, so it would be great if you all could chime in with your ideas. The easier and quicker to build, the better! :)
What about this: Grain in a combinator with a pulsar triggering its gate with a random signal at full speed and amplitude at all times, like the one I made here (without a sample loaded into it). It keeps generating noise even when you stop the song in the transport:

https://filetransfer.io/data-package/sbNRyq2P

I presume you mean a noise generator using a loaded sample and not sampling of live audio from the song(?)
Yes, just a loaded sample. I just want to be able to take any old .wav and have it run in a loop at all times, without having to do anything to trigger it. So, preferably, no clicking a "run" button anywhere, no having to press play on the sequencer, nothing like that. Just a constant background loop of that particular .wav within Reason.

That last Grain patch you provided comes very close to doing what I need. The only problem is that Grain is mangling the audio rather than simply playing it back in a loop with perfect fidelity. Are there any settings on Grain that can be tweaked to fully disable the, err, "graininess" of the playback?

Aside from that, it would be great to have a non-Grain-based solution so that I can do this when I'm using my other computer, which is still on Reason 9 (long story).
EdGrip wrote:
11 Sep 2018
I *think* you could set up a Matrix, playing the relevant note. Sequence 1 note long, note tied.

The only problem is this might not present a Gate On signal to initially trigger the note. In which case you'll have to make a Gate On signal that is triggered with "Run" and then stays on - remember the Gate and Note signals don't both have to come from the same device.
Or maybe have a Matrix "pattern 1", starting with a non-tied note to generate the Gate On signal, and then once that's going on, use the sequencer to switch to the 1-tied-note "pattern 2".

I'm not in a position to test this all out right now, sorry.

Either press Run, or it'll run anyway when the sequencer starts.
This idea sounds promising, but I couldn't seem to get it to work right. If you manage to put together a working proof of concept, I'd love to see it in action! :)

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Loque
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11 Sep 2018

Scream4 has also a S/H or a bit reducer AFAIR. So just put your sample in a sampler and add a Scream4.
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rcbuse
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11 Sep 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
As the topic indicates, I need to build a noise generator in Reason that uses a sample as the noise source, and it needs to be "always-on"--that is, generating the noise at all times, even when the song isn't playing. I shudder to think at the sheer number of ways there must be to do this, so it would be great if you all could chime in with your ideas. The easier and quicker to build, the better! :)
If you want to go minimal, you can take a NN19, load your sample in it, flip it around and wire it's LFO output to the gate. Tweak the front panel to taste.
Screen Shot 2018-09-11 at 6.35.12 AM.png
Screen Shot 2018-09-11 at 6.35.12 AM.png (217.84 KiB) Viewed 2779 times

househoppin09
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11 Sep 2018

rcbuse wrote:
11 Sep 2018
If you want to go minimal, you can take a NN19, load your sample in it, flip it around and wire it's LFO output to the gate. Tweak the front panel to taste.
Brilliant, thanks! Exactly the kind of thing I was looking for. The only problem with this approach is that, of course, the LFO retriggers the note at its own rate. If I've got a carefully-looped sample, I won't ever want it to be retriggered; the NN19 should always be playing the entire sample to the end, then returning immediately to the beginning. The desired result would be identical to simply holding down a key forever with the NN19 in FW loop mode, with nothing retriggering or disturbing the looping of the sample. I feel like there must be some very easy way to modify your approach to get such a result--basically the equivalent of using an LFO waveform that consistently stays "high", I guess? Or the generation of a "constant-on" gate signal, basically. This seems like it should be very doable, but I'm not sure where to get such a signal.

EdGrip
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11 Sep 2018

Or
Could you make your carefully looped sample into a one-slice .rex file?
You might have to think about time/sync a bit, but in theory Dr. Octorex is a tool for continuously playing back a loop.

Or
Is there a latch mode in NN19 or NN-XT?

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Ahornberg
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11 Sep 2018

My idea: put the sample in NN-19 with loop mode and use the free CV8X4 to set the gate CV input (set the first knob of the CV8X4 to maximum and connect the CV out of the first knob to the CV gate in on the NN-19). This should play the sample forever (not tested yet).

househoppin09
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11 Sep 2018

Ahornberg wrote:
11 Sep 2018
My idea: put the sample in NN-19 with loop mode and use the free CV8X4 to set the gate CV input (set the first knob of the CV8X4 to maximum and connect the CV out of the first knob to the CV gate in on the NN-19). This should play the sample forever (not tested yet).
Excellent idea! This does indeed generate the kind of "constant-on" signal I was looking for. Unfortunately, there's a new obstacle: the gate-in on the NN19 and NNXT (and all Reason devices, I guess?) appear to be edge-sensitive, rather than level-sensitive, so the sample has to be triggered manually every time the project file is opened. Even worse, pressing the "stop" button on the transport wipes out the gate signal for some reason, and I can't figure out any way to prevent it from doing so. These two limitations, taken together, would seem to make it impossible to get the behavior I want by using gate input triggering to play the sample, unless there's some sort of workaround I'm missing. So, back to square one, I guess. :|

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chimp_spanner
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11 Sep 2018

Thor has got your back!

In the trigger section (top) disable both MIDI and Step Seq. Then in the sequencer itself, set the mode to Repeat, the step length to 1, and the gate length of that step to 100%.

Now just route the gate output of Thor's sequencer to the gate input of your sampler device. And presto!

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selig
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11 Sep 2018

chimp_spanner wrote:
11 Sep 2018
Thor has got your back!

In the trigger section (top) disable both MIDI and Step Seq. Then in the sequencer itself, set the mode to Repeat, the step length to 1, and the gate length of that step to 100%.

Now just route the gate output of Thor's sequencer to the gate input of your sampler device. And presto!
2 things:
You have to hit start to get it to play, and as soon as you hit stop in the transport, it's gone. But Thor does indeed have your back…
Selig Audio, LLC

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selig
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11 Sep 2018

…and so it is, Thor rides again!

Not sure this is 100% reliable, but finally got it to work when loading the Combinator or opening a song file.
You'll have to use your own sample, so my file will open saying it can't find the "PinkNoise.wav" file (unless you get my attached PinkNoise file and put it in the same folder as the Combinator).
BackgroundLoop_gr.cmb.zip
(2.07 KiB) Downloaded 57 times
Pink Noise sample:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b6qva2x0s1gyq ... v.zip?dl=0
Selig Audio, LLC

househoppin09
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11 Sep 2018

Thanks! I should've known it'd be Thor riding to the rescue... ;)

Selig, your example is very clever and works around the stop-button problem beautifully, but I can't seem to get it to start playing on its own when loading the combi or song file. I get silence until I send a note-on directly to the NNXT (sending it to the combi does nothing), and then whichever note I sent loops indefinitely, just like I want. This would be perfect if I could figure out a way to get it to auto-start. Odd that it does for you, but not for me--any idea why we might be getting different results there? And, what exactly is this thing doing to send the initial note-on to the NNXT, anyway? :)

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chimp_spanner
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11 Sep 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
Thanks! I should've known it'd be Thor riding to the rescue... ;)

Selig, your example is very clever and works around the stop-button problem beautifully, but I can't seem to get it to start playing on its own when loading the combi or song file. I get silence until I send a note-on directly to the NNXT (sending it to the combi does nothing), and then whichever note I sent loops indefinitely, just like I want. This would be perfect if I could figure out a way to get it to auto-start. Odd that it does for you, but not for me--any idea why we might be getting different results there? And, what exactly is this thing doing to send the initial note-on to the NNXT, anyway? :)
Could you map a combi button to "Run" on Thor, and then just engage it and save the patch/song with that button pressed? That ought to start the pattern automatically.

househoppin09
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11 Sep 2018

Well, that's actually part of the problem; when using the combi that selig constructed, the pattern IS running automatically, and I even see the little "Note On" light in the "Trigger" section at the top of the Thor blinking on periodically, but somehow that's not causing the NNXT to receive any note-on messages. I have to enable the NNXT itself to receive MIDI and then manually send a note-on, and then it works fine. In fact, after that, I can even delete the combi and recreate it from scratch, and it starts working immediately! Weird. Seems like it should be fixable though, I'm just not quite clear on how the note-on message is supposed to be getting to the NNXT in the first place (or which note it's even trying to play, for that matter--the default E3?)

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chimp_spanner
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11 Sep 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
Well, that's actually part of the problem; when using the combi that selig constructed, the pattern IS running automatically, and I even see the little "Note On" light in the "Trigger" section at the top of the Thor blinking on periodically, but somehow that's not causing the NNXT to receive any note-on messages. I have to enable the NNXT itself to receive MIDI and then manually send a note-on, and then it works fine. In fact, after that, I can even delete the combi and recreate it from scratch, and it starts working immediately! Weird. Seems like it should be fixable though, I'm just not quite clear on how the note-on message is supposed to be getting to the NNXT in the first place (or which note it's even trying to play, for that matter--the default E3?)
Just working on this now. Just out of interest, does it have to be playing even in stop mode? I mean atm the very best I can do is get it playing when I press play. Which tbh is ideal for me in most circumstances. But if you have a particular need then obviously that's fair enough! I feel there should be a way to crack this...

madmacman
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11 Sep 2018

I have a similar soolution as provided by Giles (selig): But I simply use the Thor Button1 via CV1 as Gate.

The attached combinator is (also similar to selig's solution) missing the pinknoise.wav.

Drop whatever you want to the NN-19 and press button1 on Thor - there you go.

I suppose if you save the patch with enabled Button1, then it should work as expected - and no NoteOn trigger is required.
BackgroundLoop_mmm.cmb.zip
(1.91 KiB) Downloaded 56 times

househoppin09
Posts: 536
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11 Sep 2018

Thanks madmacman, but your solution appears to be similar to the one that chimp_spanner originally came up with upthread. I've just tried out the combi you uploaded, and it behaves as selig predicted: no auto-start even when saving the patch with Button1 enabled, and more seriously, pressing the stop button on the Reason transport kills it.
chimp_spanner wrote:
11 Sep 2018
househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
Well, that's actually part of the problem; when using the combi that selig constructed, the pattern IS running automatically, and I even see the little "Note On" light in the "Trigger" section at the top of the Thor blinking on periodically, but somehow that's not causing the NNXT to receive any note-on messages. I have to enable the NNXT itself to receive MIDI and then manually send a note-on, and then it works fine. In fact, after that, I can even delete the combi and recreate it from scratch, and it starts working immediately! Weird. Seems like it should be fixable though, I'm just not quite clear on how the note-on message is supposed to be getting to the NNXT in the first place (or which note it's even trying to play, for that matter--the default E3?)
Just working on this now. Just out of interest, does it have to be playing even in stop mode? I mean atm the very best I can do is get it playing when I press play. Which tbh is ideal for me in most circumstances. But if you have a particular need then obviously that's fair enough! I feel there should be a way to crack this...
If by "stop mode" you mean Thor's "run" button being stopped, I don't care about that. If you're referring to the main Reason sequencer, then yeah, I definitely need the loop to be playing when that's not running. The whole point is to be able to keep a noise loop going when I'm NOT actively recording or doing anything sequencer-wise, just playing around and experimenting. Selig's solution has already solved that piece of it, so all that's left is the auto-start. That's less essential, but I'd still really like to get it solved if possible. I'll probably have song files where I set up a whole bunch of these loops on top of each other, which would mean having to go through manually activate ALL of them every single time I open the project. That wouldn't be too fun... ;)
Last edited by househoppin09 on 11 Sep 2018, edited 1 time in total.

RobC
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11 Sep 2018

Well, if we take a square LFO, split its CV in 2, where one is inverted, then make each unipolar and merge, then we should get a static flat line. Send that to a gate and done.

madmacman
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11 Sep 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
11 Sep 2018
Thanks madmacman, but your solution appears to be similar to the one that chimp_spanner originally came up with upthread. I've just tried out the combi you uploaded, and it behaves as selig predicted: no auto-start even when saving the patch with Button1 enabled, and more seriously, pressing the stop button on the Reason transport kills it.
Aargh - sorry. Yes, Song stop kills all gates. :( I think this is the main issue we all are currently struggling with.

Tried it with a flat "maxed" and looped envelope from Europa via CV1 out - doesn't work either. It sort of works (with some delay) if you add a slight ramp up on the envelope (more trapezoid). Then I can run the song, stop it (then the sampler goes quiet) but after some iterations the sampler is triggered again.

But this is randomly (after 1-n envelope loops) and I have no clue what's the system behind this behavior.

But from my observations it looks like the device needs a "Gate Low" before it accepts another "Gate High"?

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