The current GUI with the exception of the SSL mixer was made after rack extensions were introduced. I would not be surprised if just like Rack Extensions they also made high resolution art assets for the GUI for future releases of Reason. No doubt they would have to recode the core but I'm sure much of the design work required for that has already been done.fieldframe wrote: ↑27 Aug 2018
Upgraded resolution will require a GUI rewrite, which probably has to come after a core rewrite. As I said earlier in the thread:
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- Timmy Crowne
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Exactly. Suggests a high-res graphics update was in the pipeline years ago.antic604 wrote: It was already confirmed several times by the RE developers that it has been the case for quite some time.
What if the new GUI is actually full-3D?
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The Reason 8 UI overhaul was more of a surface-level change versus what I’m talking about in this case. Propellerhead moved things around and probably rewrote a lot of high-level GUI code for things like the browser, but the actual rendering engine - the code that does all the compositing on the rack, doing everything from alpha blending on knob filmstrips to spline calculation for swinging cables - that’s all a codebase that probably dates back 15+ years, and is “software-based rendering,” meaning it doesn’t take advantage of modern graphics chips. (How do we know it’s software-based? The fact that scrolling is anything less than a constant 60fps on a modern computer is all the proof you need. )miscend wrote: ↑28 Aug 2018The current GUI with the exception of the SSL mixer was made after rack extensions were introduced. I would not be surprised if just like Rack Extensions they also made high resolution art assets for the GUI for future releases of Reason. No doubt they would have to recode the core but I'm sure much of the design work required for that has already been done.fieldframe wrote: ↑27 Aug 2018
Upgraded resolution will require a GUI rewrite, which probably has to come after a core rewrite. As I said earlier in the thread:
To actually take advantage of modern hardware, Propellerhead will have to rewrite all that rendering code to use modern graphics APIs. At least on Mac, this will coordinate with UI code for the long-running iPad project, since both MacOS and iOS use Apple’s proprietary Metal API. To get a taste of what this could look like when it ships (hopefully in Reason 11), check out Moog Model 15 for iPad: Its UI uses Metal extensively, and it’s super smooth.
Software rendering can easily work at 60fps or higher, so that's not a proof (for example Quake2 had CPU renderer as an option).fieldframe wrote: ↑28 Aug 2018How do we know it’s software-based? The fact that scrolling is anything less than a constant 60fps on a modern computer is all the proof you need. )
The proof is, that with a busy Rack when scrolling it my DSP meter jumps one bar, which means that the CPU cycles are taken away from audio processing, which wouldn't happen if rendering was handled by GPU
Not every1 has a great GPU. Reason has to be able to run on low power battery powered devices with integrated graphics like laptops and Win10 tablets. So I doubt they will ever switch to a 60FPS rendering pipeline with super modern graphics rendering tech.fieldframe wrote: ↑28 Aug 2018The Reason 8 UI overhaul was more of a surface-level change versus what I’m talking about in this case. Propellerhead moved things around and probably rewrote a lot of high-level GUI code for things like the browser, but the actual rendering engine - the code that does all the compositing on the rack, doing everything from alpha blending on knob filmstrips to spline calculation for swinging cables - that’s all a codebase that probably dates back 15+ years, and is “software-based rendering,” meaning it doesn’t take advantage of modern graphics chips. (How do we know it’s software-based? The fact that scrolling is anything less than a constant 60fps on a modern computer is all the proof you need. )miscend wrote: ↑28 Aug 2018
The current GUI with the exception of the SSL mixer was made after rack extensions were introduced. I would not be surprised if just like Rack Extensions they also made high resolution art assets for the GUI for future releases of Reason. No doubt they would have to recode the core but I'm sure much of the design work required for that has already been done.
To actually take advantage of modern hardware, Propellerhead will have to rewrite all that rendering code to use modern graphics APIs. At least on Mac, this will coordinate with UI code for the long-running iPad project, since both MacOS and iOS use Apple’s proprietary Metal API. To get a taste of what this could look like when it ships (hopefully in Reason 11), check out Moog Model 15 for iPad: Its UI uses Metal extensively, and it’s super smooth.
Also I'm sure there is a latency penalty for using hi resolution 60 fps animations. Games tend to have high input latency compared to music apps. You'd rather use all your bus bandwidth for real time audio
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Indeed - some VST plugins have settings to drop the FPS in their GUI/UX to save on cpu. Ozone is one that I know of (you can set the display from 5 fps to 60 fps).
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- fieldframe
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While visualizations are part of any DAW rendering pipeline, these are fundamentally different from drawing things like knobs and faders, because there’s an unavoidable CPU component involved (most likely a bunch of FFT math). Everything else is just a bunch of bitmap data fed through a compositor, which is what hardware acceleration (even with cheap, integrated GPUs) does way more efficiently.EnochLight wrote: ↑28 Aug 2018Indeed - some VST plugins have settings to drop the FPS in their GUI/UX to save on cpu. Ozone is one that I know of (you can set the display from 5 fps to 60 fps).
In other words, you can have a software-rendered, 15fps visualization in a hardware-accelerated window that scrolls at 60fps.
Hope they add a lot of more functions. Maybe Mattias could tell us more about it?
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I think if there were more features than the 6 mentioned already, we'd know about it but I'd love to be proved wrong.
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Will there be VST 3 support?
I don't think this was ever announced, although I'd be surprised if it's not on the to-do list eventually.
In the beginning, all RE GUIs had to be defined in 3D, but that requirement was removed a couple of years back (SDK 2.1 or SDK 2.2). So I think there's about 0% chance of that happening now.
Too bad. I mean I wouldn't like to have to really "spin" the Rack to get to the cables on the back or worry about which cables should be upfront so that they won't tangle, nor would I need the shadows on the knobs & sliders to react dynamically to their position in the Rack. But having that requirement meant that the devices would be easily scaleable / zoomable, which is what we're missing. I hope that at least the requirement to provide high-resolution graphics is retained?
Yes of course, all REs are future proof in that regard!antic604 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018Too bad. I mean I wouldn't like to have to really "spin" the Rack to get to the cables on the back or worry about which cables should be upfront so that they won't tangle, nor would I need the shadows on the knobs & sliders to react dynamically to their position in the Rack. But having that requirement meant that the devices would be easily scaleable / zoomable, which is what we're missing. I hope that at least the requirement to provide high-resolution graphics is retained?
Let's hope that future is 'soon'buddard wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018Yes of course, all REs are future proof in that regard!antic604 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018
Too bad. I mean I wouldn't like to have to really "spin" the Rack to get to the cables on the back or worry about which cables should be upfront so that they won't tangle, nor would I need the shadows on the knobs & sliders to react dynamically to their position in the Rack. But having that requirement meant that the devices would be easily scaleable / zoomable, which is what we're missing. I hope that at least the requirement to provide high-resolution graphics is retained?
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Essentially just copy the sequencer work flow from Studio One 3/4 and call it a day. I use studio one and do appreciate how the sequencer window works. If the Props get near that I will probably use Studio one 3 less than I do now.
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I would like to see a chord selector in Reason.
This could work similar to how the Chord selector in Toontrack's EZkeys, Studio One 4 or Cubase operates. This seems to be the going rave these days in other products.
This would more than likely be a Reason 11 feature if it was ever added.
This could work similar to how the Chord selector in Toontrack's EZkeys, Studio One 4 or Cubase operates. This seems to be the going rave these days in other products.
This would more than likely be a Reason 11 feature if it was ever added.
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Yeah before the end of the year I think Mattias said. My guess is late November. a VST update. This will hopefully be included.Scoobyman II wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018Thank you. I really like my Scuffham S-Gear amp plugin, but I can't use it with Reason.
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More like Reason 12.ltbrunt00 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018I would like to see a chord selector in Reason.
This could work similar to how the Chord selector in Toontrack's EZkeys, Studio One 4 or Cubase operates. This seems to be the going rave these days in other products.
This would more than likely be a Reason 11 feature if it was ever added.
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That’s what the players are for. Someone should make one as a player.ltbrunt00 wrote: ↑31 Aug 2018I would like to see a chord selector in Reason.
This could work similar to how the Chord selector in Toontrack's EZkeys, Studio One 4 or Cubase operates. This seems to be the going rave these days in other products.
This would more than likely be a Reason 11 feature if it was ever added.
Maybe Reason needs to consider creating 3 types of Reason. RL for Reason legacy which is like the old Reason with no one components which are in it but their own. RRE for Reason Record Engineer which is what we have now, but they do not add any more to it, only enhancing the performance of the core system. RSM for Reason Studio Master which is a total modular system which includes three mixing desk (British, American, and Mastering) also dedicated RE's and VST's for midi, notation, and video that are only in that system. Also partnering with hardware companies like (hint) Behringer or Soundcraft that have a outboard mixing board/interface already.
I believe it they took that approach it would give them time to advance the core system and look toward the future without compromising what they already have. Although they seem to want an all in one system maybe that is to much to ask for. Lastly everyone understands the GUI is an necessary component that needs to be enhanced, but I believe each eco system ; if they took this approch, would have their own look, yet they could render 3D or any other new optical that comes out on the RSM for it would be their flagship and it would be expected to look more like real components than RL or RRE. The fun part would be buying the RSM and being able to switch back to the RL system as one chooses and being able to cut off the other larger CPU hungry components that are not being used.
If you think about it, they had this in mind with Reason-Record and Recycle.
I believe it they took that approach it would give them time to advance the core system and look toward the future without compromising what they already have. Although they seem to want an all in one system maybe that is to much to ask for. Lastly everyone understands the GUI is an necessary component that needs to be enhanced, but I believe each eco system ; if they took this approch, would have their own look, yet they could render 3D or any other new optical that comes out on the RSM for it would be their flagship and it would be expected to look more like real components than RL or RRE. The fun part would be buying the RSM and being able to switch back to the RL system as one chooses and being able to cut off the other larger CPU hungry components that are not being used.
If you think about it, they had this in mind with Reason-Record and Recycle.
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