Can anyone show me how to make a supersaw?

This forum is for discussing Reason. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018

Thank you EnochLight.

User avatar
QVprod
Moderator
Posts: 3488
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Contact:

13 Aug 2018

thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018
I was wrong .
Was very much confused by the assumption otherwise as a supersaw type sound is essentially a saw wave with unison. Europa can do that with just one engine.

Use the default Basic Analog wavetable and turn the knob all the way to the right for a saw wave. Then turn on the unison section and tweak the count, blend, and detune knobs to taste. Spread will then make the sound more mono or more stereo.

User avatar
artotaku
Posts: 652
Joined: 09 May 2015
Location: Munich, Germany
Contact:

13 Aug 2018

Banged this together in half an hour.


Europa Super Saw.zip
(2.22 KiB) Downloaded 113 times
I think the most weak spot of Europa for super saw waves is its built in reverb. Better use Synapse Audio DR-1 for that. Still, I prefer Antidote or Expanse for super saws.
Also, to make it full and bright add white noise.

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11173
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Aug 2018

I just through in a quick super saw and a quick stab with Europa



Than i remembered i had made a quick super saw with Thor:



I probably created the patches in a different style and Europa sounds much brighter and more clear, but tbh i like Thor more. I will have a look if i still have the super saw patch from Thor and compare them...

Ok, here i tried to use the same fx and tequniques as in the Thor patch, but still sounds much weaker. And its a bit weird, that 2 Europas are crackling on a new 5ghz 6 core machine :( where the Thor patch works smooth.



And tbh, i had the inspiration for the Thor patch from here:

Last edited by Loque on 13 Aug 2018, edited 2 times in total.
Reason12, Win10

User avatar
Oquasec
Posts: 2849
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

13 Aug 2018

europa is like if you could control thor's fm oscillators using the wavetable method, being built into reason is enough lol
Producer/Programmer.
Reason, FLS and Cubase NFR user.

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018

QVprod wrote:
13 Aug 2018
thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018
I was wrong .
Was very much confused by the assumption otherwise as a supersaw type sound is essentially a saw wave with unison. Europa can do that with just one engine.

Use the default Basic Analog wavetable and turn the knob all the way to the right for a saw wave. Then turn on the unison section and tweak the count, blend, and detune knobs to taste. Spread will then make the sound more mono or more stereo.
Thank you for your advice. However, that was the first thing I did when I tried to make a Europa supersaw. It just (to me) doesn't have the fullness and body that a Thor supersaw has.

Nielsen
Posts: 100
Joined: 05 Nov 2017
Location: Denmark

13 Aug 2018

thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018
It just (to me) doesn't have the fullness and body that a Thor supersaw has.
Isn't that ideal? I mean having different synths that sound slightly different from each other.

User avatar
VHS
Posts: 129
Joined: 21 Sep 2015

13 Aug 2018

I didn't read the thread, just the title.

Supersaw = sawtooths stacked and detuned. 7 sawtooths is considered the sweet spot. easy peasy.

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

13 Aug 2018

thedjjudah wrote:
QVprod wrote:
13 Aug 2018
Thank you for your advice. However, that was the first thing I did when I tried to make a Europa supersaw. It just (to me) doesn't have the fullness and body that a Thor supersaw has.
There are two or three factors potentially affecting your perception of the difference, depending on how you did your comparison.

The first is the old “louder sounds better” issue that you must eliminate before you can make a fair comparison.

The reason I mention this one is because if you start with the default settings for both synths, and create a “super saw” in both synths, Thor will be as much as 10 dB louder!
Advantage Thor.
Solution: lower Thor by 10 dB (or raise Europa by 10 dB).

The next issue is the number of saws - if you do not increase Eurpopa’s “count” to the max, you will be using two less saw oscillators.
Advantage Thor.
Solution: increase Europa’s count from 5 to 7.

Also important:
•Match the amp envelopes!
Increase the sustain in Thor, and set both attacks to their max (they both default to an attack time that is slightly slower than their fastest possible attack time).
•For an even more “fair” comparison, decrease the Spread in Europa to zero, and remove the filter in Thor.

And if you want to get REALLY anal, use the Filter in Europa (SVF LP 12dB) with the Level coming into the filter reduced from the default 8.8dB to 7.2dB.

Remember that these waveforms vary over time, so to compare fairly create an alternating sequence of a whole note on one synth, then a whole note on the other, and let the sequence loop multiple times to account for random variations in each oscillator as you make your comparisons (and fine tune the settings).

IF after all of this, you still prefer one to the other, try lowering the one you prefer by a decibel or two and see if you still prefer it - remember, we’re comparing TONE here, not LEVEL.

BTW, I cannot hear a difference between the two synths when setup according to my description above, at least not enough of one that says one synth is preferable to the other.
[emoji3]


Sent from some crappy device using Tapatalk
Selig Audio, LLC

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018

How would I go about attaching the .wav files to my post? I tried uploading them as attachments but it didn't work. If someone can help me do this, I would be able to show you the two sounds I am comparing. I really don't want to create a SoundCloud account.

User avatar
Loque
Moderator
Posts: 11173
Joined: 28 Dec 2015

13 Aug 2018

thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018
How would I go about attaching the .wav files to my post? I tried uploading them as attachments but it didn't work. If someone can help me do this, I would be able to show you the two sounds I am comparing. I really don't want to create a SoundCloud account.
Attaching big files is not possible. Create an Allihoopa account, drop it directly from Reason, and use the special Allihoopa tags in the forums advanced editor, than you just put your id from the URL between the tags.
Reason12, Win10

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018

Cool, Loque. Thanks.

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018



Nielsen
Posts: 100
Joined: 05 Nov 2017
Location: Denmark

13 Aug 2018

Try this:

Create Europa and reset device if necessary. Use a Saw-Triangle wave on each of the three engines (remember to enable the engines). Enable Modifier 1 on each engine and use Unison7 on each (found under Detuned) and increase amount to taste. Enable the Unison on all three engines. Increase decay on the amp envelope and perhaps enable the reverb effect on Europa. Now you have a nice fat and full supersaw using Europa only.

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018



This is what I have so far. I STILL had to stack octaves to get it to sound ok...

User avatar
Reasonable man
Posts: 589
Joined: 14 Jul 2016

13 Aug 2018

Type supersaw into the browser whilst browsing the Europa patches . In brings up two of em . They both sound great. It shows you how there made at least. Better to make your own though.

User avatar
aeox
Competition Winner
Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

13 Aug 2018

Antidote, Euorpa, eXpanse, and Serum all make very similar sounding "basic" supersaw sounds. Just with a few mouse clicks even!

You still need to take other things into consideration. Processing, stereo image, layering, etc. Obviously, there are so many different uses for supersaws and everyones are going to sound different in the context of their own music.

Key processing effects to think about in no particular order:

-EQ
-Comp
-Saturation
-Reverb

By the sound of your examples, it looks like you're going for a very mono sounding supersaw, so that should be even easier to accomplish than my example.
Last edited by aeox on 15 Aug 2018, edited 1 time in total.

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018



I think this one sounds better. Would someone be willing to look at my attached patch and tell me how to make it better?


Now if only someone could show me how to attach a patch... :shock:

User avatar
aeox
Competition Winner
Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

13 Aug 2018

thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018


I think this one sounds better. Would someone be willing to look at my attached patch and tell me how to make it better?


Now if only someone could show me how to attach a patch... :shock:
I believe you have to make it a .zip file. Click on "full editor" and below there is an "Attachments" tab.

thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018

THANK YOU SO MUCH!
Attachments
Supersaw Attempt #3.zip
(2.31 KiB) Downloaded 68 times

User avatar
aeox
Competition Winner
Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

13 Aug 2018

Here is my go at the style of supersaw you are trying to make. I used only stock devices so I'd replace the reverb with DR-1 personally, and add Saturation Knob on "low" setting to replace the first "Mclass Maximizer" Turn up saturation until it sounds nice to you.

Your supersaw is in the project for a/b comparison.


thedjjudah
Posts: 151
Joined: 02 Dec 2016

13 Aug 2018

Hey man, yours sounds really cool!

One thing I will say - I was trying to make a supersaw with only one Europa with no other layering. But you know, you really showed me how to do it, so I'm gonna stick with layering Europa with Thor.

User avatar
aeox
Competition Winner
Posts: 3222
Joined: 23 Feb 2017
Location: Oregon

14 Aug 2018

thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018
Hey man, yours sounds really cool!

One thing I will say - I was trying to make a supersaw with only one Europa with no other layering. But you know, you really showed me how to do it, so I'm gonna stick with layering Europa with Thor.
:thumbs_up:

User avatar
candybag
Posts: 46
Joined: 26 Feb 2018
Location: Sweden
Contact:

15 Aug 2018

aeox wrote:
14 Aug 2018
thedjjudah wrote:
13 Aug 2018
Hey man, yours sounds really cool!

One thing I will say - I was trying to make a supersaw with only one Europa with no other layering. But you know, you really showed me how to do it, so I'm gonna stick with layering Europa with Thor.
:thumbs_up:
Agreed, sounds cool! I copied and added one Europa without unison to make the highs cut through better in mono. Might actually put your patch to use today :)
Yamaha HS7 - HD600 - Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 - Akai MPK261 - AT2050 - Auralex Project 2™ Roominator Kit
9900K - 16 GB - 3xXB270HU - GTX 1080 ti

User avatar
selig
RE Developer
Posts: 11685
Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Location: The NorthWoods, CT, USA

15 Aug 2018

Here's a comparison of two patches, one from aeox (which I like!), and one I created for fun. Without saying which is which, the first time through the melody plays the first patch, the second time plays the second patch, and it is repeated a second time for each example.
What's the difference?

Selig Audio, LLC

Post Reply
  • Information
  • Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests