Can anyone show me how to make a supersaw?

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aeox
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15 Aug 2018

selig wrote:
15 Aug 2018
Here's a comparison of two patches, one from aeox (which I like!), and one I created for fun. Without saying which is which, the first time through the melody plays the first patch, the second time plays the second patch, and it is repeated a second time for each example.
What's the difference?

One is much brighter! I don't remember what mine sounded like anymore because I made it in R10 demo mode and can't open it again :D

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selig
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15 Aug 2018

aeox wrote:
selig wrote:
15 Aug 2018
Here's a comparison of two patches, one from aeox (which I like!), and one I created for fun. Without saying which is which, the first time through the melody plays the first patch, the second time plays the second patch, and it is repeated a second time for each example.
What's the difference?

One is much brighter! I don't remember what mine sounded like anymore because I made it in R10 demo mode and can't open it again [emoji1]
Which one do you feel is brighter?
They sound really close to me…any other differences besides brightness?
[emoji3]


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aeox
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15 Aug 2018

selig wrote:
15 Aug 2018
aeox wrote:
One is much brighter! I don't remember what mine sounded like anymore because I made it in R10 demo mode and can't open it again [emoji1]
Which one do you feel is brighter?
They sound really close to me…any other differences besides brightness?
[emoji3]


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First one is brighter and has more "mono presence" it sounds like or maybe the higher octaves are more mono than the second one. I believe the first one is yours, as it sounds better. I see the fault in mine, it's too wide and not focused. I suppose I should have listened to some references and spent a bit longer than 2 min on that before offering to give advice :oops: I so often use supersaws in combonation with a lead, so I generally make them un-focused in the stereo field to leave room for a lead.

jimmyklane
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15 Aug 2018

scratchnsnifff wrote:
13 Aug 2018
Very handy for making wavetables and hypersaws
The key with supersaws isn’t so much the stacked oscillators but the processing afterwards
Exactly. The raw oscillators themselves even amongst differing manufacturers like Access, Roland, or PH tend to have only basic and slight differences between them, with the Access Hypersaw seeming to my ears to be the darkest and most “moody” of the three. Of course that’s just one very subjective opinion from s guy that owned s snow several years back and switched back to the Virus C.

The EQ is a major player, as is compression....using a slow attack and release timed to the track makes a world of difference in the final sound of almost any synthrsizer track in any production.
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hurricane
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15 Aug 2018

All your Supersaws lack SUPERSAW FIZZ :crazy:

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aeox
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15 Aug 2018

hurricane wrote:
15 Aug 2018
All your Supersaws lack SUPERSAW FIZZ :crazy:


Stock devices only? if so share link for OP :)

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aeox
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15 Aug 2018

And IMO that's too much fizz man!

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hurricane
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16 Aug 2018

aeox wrote:
15 Aug 2018
And IMO that's too much fizz man!
Lol - that's the classic JP sound - I copied these patches straight off my JP-8080, and at one point I got confused and didn't know if I was playing the hardware or the soft synth. :mrgreen:
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aeox
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16 Aug 2018

hurricane wrote:
16 Aug 2018
aeox wrote:
15 Aug 2018
And IMO that's too much fizz man!
Lol - that's the classic JP sound - I copied these patches straight off my JP-8080, and at one point I got confused and didn't know if I was playing the hardware or the soft synth. :mrgreen:
OP is trying to do supersaw with Europa and stock devices but I guess at a glance it could look like a supersaw contest is popping off in here :D

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hurricane
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16 Aug 2018

Ok fine here's my Europa attempt (it can't do them as well as HIVE):




EDIT: That's just one Europa - maybe I should layer.

(But why fuck with that when you can use ONE Hive and be done with it!)
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scratchnsnifff
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16 Aug 2018

Actually Europa does have one nice little trick with supersaws. Use the fm feedback dynamic table and I believe somewhere around 25% will display a saw sounding waveform. If you slightly boost from there, you’ll get a saw/noise sounding combo. This will add some nice higher frequencies to fill out any gaps in the spectrum
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selig
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16 Aug 2018

aeox wrote:
hurricane wrote:
16 Aug 2018
Lol - that's the classic JP sound - I copied these patches straight off my JP-8080, and at one point I got confused and didn't know if I was playing the hardware or the soft synth. :mrgreen:
OP is trying to do supersaw with Europa and stock devices but I guess at a glance it could look like a supersaw contest is popping off in here :D
A contest with supersaws is like a contest with picking your favorite shade of blue. We all like different things, so we’ll all choose different “shades” of supersaw. But you can’t argue with with “real thing” (another JP owner says… ).

As for my comparison, the first one is yours, the second one is my copy using ONLY a SINGLE Europa - a personal challenge I undertook to see if it was possible to get the same (or even similar) sound using only one Europa with no stacking and no external FX.

Also as a long time JP owner, I’ve never used the supersaw oscillator in the “classic” way, but still find it immensely useful. I use it in a darker form for pads, or with an envelope controlling detune (fast decay for a burst of high detune to enhance attack), or I modulate the detune with a random LFO. All to say it’s a very versatile tool to have in the tool box, and you don’t have to do the typical thing with it for it to be useful IMO.


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selig
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16 Aug 2018

scratchnsnifff wrote:Actually Europa does have one nice little trick with supersaws. Use the fm feedback dynamic table and I believe somewhere around 25% will display a saw sounding waveform. If you slightly boost from there, you’ll get a saw/noise sounding combo. This will add some nice higher frequencies to fill out any gaps in the spectrum

That’s a cool trick, can’t wait to fire up Europa and give it a whirl.

It’s worth noting the Europa saw/supersaw already has some extra top octave energy and no “gaps” (like Thor, for example). Check out it’s spectrum!


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aeox
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16 Aug 2018

selig wrote:
16 Aug 2018
A contest with supersaws is like a contest with picking your favorite shade of blue. We all like different things, so we’ll all choose different “shades” of supersaw. But you can’t argue with with “real thing” (another JP owner says… ).
A bad joke from me :D Of course I understand that such a contest is meaningless.
selig wrote:
16 Aug 2018
As for my comparison, the first one is yours, the second one is my copy using ONLY a SINGLE Europa - a personal challenge I undertook to see if it was possible to get the same (or even similar) sound using only one Europa with no stacking and no external FX.

Also as a long time JP owner, I’ve never used the supersaw oscillator in the “classic” way, but still find it immensely useful. I use it in a darker form for pads, or with an envelope controlling detune (fast decay for a burst of high detune to enhance attack), or I modulate the detune with a random LFO. All to say it’s a very versatile tool to have in the tool box, and you don’t have to do the typical thing with it for it to be useful IMO.


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Okay, gotcha. Sounds good for one Europa, it's hard to get the "right" sound with just one but just depends on the context of it's use.

"(fast decay for a burst of high detune to enhance attack)" I've done stuff with automating detune but that's something new I've got to try!

So you own a JP-8080 as well? I downloaded this reaktor ensemble called JP-4c. Have you heard of it or know how accurate it is?
Image

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selig
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16 Aug 2018

aeox wrote:
16 Aug 2018
selig wrote:
16 Aug 2018
A contest with supersaws is like a contest with picking your favorite shade of blue. We all like different things, so we’ll all choose different “shades” of supersaw. But you can’t argue with with “real thing” (another JP owner says… ).
A bad joke from me :D Of course I understand that such a contest is meaningless.
selig wrote:
16 Aug 2018
As for my comparison, the first one is yours, the second one is my copy using ONLY a SINGLE Europa - a personal challenge I undertook to see if it was possible to get the same (or even similar) sound using only one Europa with no stacking and no external FX.

Also as a long time JP owner, I’ve never used the supersaw oscillator in the “classic” way, but still find it immensely useful. I use it in a darker form for pads, or with an envelope controlling detune (fast decay for a burst of high detune to enhance attack), or I modulate the detune with a random LFO. All to say it’s a very versatile tool to have in the tool box, and you don’t have to do the typical thing with it for it to be useful IMO.


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Okay, gotcha. Sounds good for one Europa, it's hard to get the "right" sound with just one but just depends on the context of it's use.

"(fast decay for a burst of high detune to enhance attack)" I've done stuff with automating detune but that's something new I've got to try!

So you own a JP-8080 as well? I downloaded this reaktor ensemble called JP-4c. Have you heard of it or know how accurate it is?
Image
Haven't heard that, but years ago (2006) I started to build my own version in Reaktor (happy to share, but it's a work in progress). This is where I first built a super saw oscillator, trying to copy the original as accurately as possible. There was one great online resource with some great details I was able to confirm with my own testing, so at least that part came out very well.
Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 1.30.24 PM.png
Screen Shot 2018-08-16 at 1.30.24 PM.png (983.12 KiB) Viewed 1881 times
IIRC, it was the feedback oscillator I could not reproduce and the main missing element on my recreation (besides some of the FX, which would be easy to complete).
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selig
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16 Aug 2018

Oh yea, here's the Europa patch from my previous example:
Europa_SuperSawGR.repatch.zip
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kitekrazy
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16 Aug 2018

Always wondered why they call them Super Saws. Are they more "buzzy"? A few years ago I seen a video with 3 Thors layered to create this super saw.

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selig
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16 Aug 2018

kitekrazy wrote:
16 Aug 2018
Always wondered why they call them Super Saws. Are they more "buzzy"? A few years ago I seen a video with 3 Thors layered to create this super saw.
Because the first place it appeared was on the JP8000 and it was called a "Super Saw" waveform on the main oscillator.
It's 7 saw tooth oscillators stacked together and detuned in a specific way that gives it that sound - otherwise, each individual saw is no different from any other.
(in the upper right hand corner of this image)
Image
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kitekrazy
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16 Aug 2018

So I could probably roll my own with the Blamsoft Polymodular System? I have yet to use it.

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selig
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16 Aug 2018

kitekrazy wrote:
16 Aug 2018
So I could probably roll my own with the Blamsoft Polymodular System? I have yet to use it.
Sure! Figured it's about time to post this:
https://www.nada.kth.se/utbildning/gruk ... _10131.pdf
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hurricane
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16 Aug 2018

kitekrazy wrote:
16 Aug 2018
So I could probably roll my own with the Blamsoft Polymodular System? I have yet to use it.
Sure, you could technically do it with anything, but it won't sound like the JP's (if we're holding supersaws to that magical standard). The only synth that can do it almost exactly like the JP is Hive.
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madmacman
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16 Aug 2018

hurricane wrote:
16 Aug 2018
kitekrazy wrote:
16 Aug 2018
So I could probably roll my own with the Blamsoft Polymodular System? I have yet to use it.
Sure, you could technically do it with anything, but it won't sound like the JP's (if we're holding supersaws to that magical standard). The only synth that can do it almost exactly like the JP is Hive.
Oh, don't forget Sunrizer by BeepStreet...

http://www.beepstreet.com/plugins/sunrizer

househoppin09
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16 Aug 2018

selig, your "JP-8001" Reaktor ensemble looks very tantalizing! Do you think you'd be able to figure out the feedback oscillator nowadays? The world sorely needs a proper JP8k emulation... ;)

Seriously though, supersaw emulations are a dime a dozen, but I'd gladly plunk down some change to have a full JP8k ITB.

Nielsen
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16 Aug 2018

I wish Roland would manufacture a somewhat limited rerun of the JP-8000 combined with an official VST / RE release, maybe with some subtle improvements and tweaks on the design. I'd buy both hardware and RE... People never seem to stop talking about it.

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selig
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16 Aug 2018

househoppin09 wrote:
16 Aug 2018
selig, your "JP-8001" Reaktor ensemble looks very tantalizing! Do you think you'd be able to figure out the feedback oscillator nowadays? The world sorely needs a proper JP8k emulation... ;)

Seriously though, supersaw emulations are a dime a dozen, but I'd gladly plunk down some change to have a full JP8k ITB.
I've not been able to figure it out on my own, at least with only the user manual and the synth to go by. It's not like anything else out there, though they may be doing something quite simple under the hood. If anyone has ideas, I'm all ears and am happy to share this ensemble with any other Reaktor users - otherwise it's just sitting on my drive taking up space.
;)
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