Reason Slow Performance - when is optimisation coming?

This forum is for discussing Propellerhead's music software. Questions, answers, ideas, and opinions... all apply.
inteliboy
Posts: 3
Joined: 06 Aug 2018

Post 06 Aug 2018

Reason skips, stutters, stop, crashes, "computer is too slow" etc ever since VST's have been introduced. And is simply getting worse and worse, not better.

I've been playing with buffering, threading, multi-core options... but nothing really saves the day. Only a full restart, and have no other apps going - and constantly having to be aware of what vsts and rack extensions are resource hogs, and always cleaning files up to "bounce in place". Which honestly, this day and age you shouldn't have to lean on.

This could be a Mac optimisation issue with the core Reason engine itself. No other DAW are having these issues.

Recently upgraded my laptop (mac) with faster CPU, more ram, more hard disk space... upgrading from a 6+ year old laptop and am seeing barely any difference in performance. Even though every other piece of software I use is now running a lot faster. In fact, some reason files randomly run more smoothly on the old laptop - both with the same version of High Sierra.

When are Propellerheads going to buckle down and release a performance update? Not more free bundles and offers at their store, not more minor upgrades or auto-chord playing gadgets for non-musicians.... But actually have a DAW that stand up to the competition? I heard whispers months and months back an update was coming... but am still impatiently waiting.

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supersplaron
Posts: 53
Joined: 15 Jan 2016

Post 06 Aug 2018

Hello! Stefan from Propellerhead here. I'm going to start by saying that we are looking into this, and it's going well, but it's taking us a little bit more time than anticipated. Basically what Mattias already mentioned in the Reason 10.1 release blog post.

What sample rate are you currently using? We recommend you set it to 44k, which will be a lot nicer to your CPU. Also, what version of Reason are you using? We recently released an update that addressed issues a few users have had with the latest High Sierra update.

If you need further assistance, I'd recommend that you get in touch with our support team. They can always answer any questions you might have. You can reach them here: https://help.propellerheads.se/

Thanks!

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fotizimo
Posts: 245
Joined: 15 Jan 2016
Location: Canada

Post 06 Aug 2018

I am running v10.1 on my i7 8gb Surface Pro 4, which on the face of things, isn't a high performance device. But every time I upgrade to a newer version of Reason, I get less and less performance out of this same machine. I used to get a dozen instruments per song I built back in v8 and v9. now if I am lucky, I get 8 instruments, with no change to the hardware at all. None of the performance settings make any difference in overall performance, and all my machine does now when I fire up old songs is sputter and choke. It's a year old machine that used to perform well enough for a portable artist that wrote on the go.

I guess I am starting to grow tired of the props team not focusing on performance, and optimization, while instead spending all visible time working on new REs.

It is time to start focusing on the main application, and making it run better. Does the business unit leaders not understand that even net-new users will leave the platform if the performance isn't where it should be? I have $1000's of dollars invested in Reason and looking to jump ship to Bitwig or Ableton.

Version 11 will be a "make it or break it" version for me. If they come out with more gadgets and no real performance enhancements, I am walking away.
Fotizimo @ Instagram
:reason: on Surface Pro 4
Nektar Impact 25
Novation Launchkey Mini
Arturia SparkLE Spark Codec for Reason

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Oquasec
Posts: 1968
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 06 Aug 2018

FL Studio has me covered for everything not related to RE, but Reason is Reaktor as well as being used in conjunction with reaktor.
The point of using Reason will never be the same as using the no brainer daw (FL Studio)
Producer/Sound Designer.

Hydrosonic
Posts: 63
Joined: 19 Jan 2015

Post 06 Aug 2018

I am currently running Reason 10 on a aging lowly I5 2.whatever. 8gigs of RAM. It's not exactly a rocket, but I can tell you without any doubt. The best Performance upgrade you could give to all your customers would be.......... -------> TRACK FREEZE! (as in rendering the whole track and devices to audio and removing them from CPU calculations) with an un-freeze function (revert back to the original devices) if we need to do changes such as automation or key etc.

I don't see why you can't add this. and I put this at the top of my priority list, yes... even above my desire for a combinator that has more knobs and buttons. And my desire for an upto date Sampler.

I am sure many of us would love a Track Freeze button, that renders that track to audio, but with a recall option for later changes. If you added this function, even CPU heavy RE's could be used on modest computers. My lowly I5 can run a decent amount of Audio tracks, it just can't run many RE's/VST's . So go figure, optimization is great, but Track Freeze is the place you need to start.

And while your at it, addd bezier curves to the Automation

Thanks

HydroSonic

inteliboy
Posts: 3
Joined: 06 Aug 2018

Post 06 Aug 2018

Thanks for the reply Stefan - appreciate Props developers are listening. Desperately looking forward to a performance update. The last straw was spending a bunch of cash on a new four core 2018 i7, purely so Reason will run... and having it perform the same if not worse.... Sad to see other producers videos and tutorials throwing vst's, synths, effects and samples at their DAW without a second thought.... So much more creative flow then constantly worrying about keeping Reason running.

Have tried 44k as well (and all software and OS is up to date) - like some of the other tips mentioned here and elsewhere - it does help a little bit, though still running into major performance issues.

Hopefully v11 (or a coming point release) is Propellerhead's Snow Leopard --- nothing but refinements and performance enhancement across the board.

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demt
Posts: 727
Joined: 16 Sep 2016

Post 07 Aug 2018

at the risk of repeating myself tryhttps://www.auslogics.com/en/software/boost-speed/at the risk of repeating myself try

seriously 6 months work of tweaking your machine in 1 min
neutron; tb3; triggerfingerpro;3korg volca keys fm drums; kaos pad 3;zaquencer; akai mpk mini;2 zmx mixers; midiplus interface; behringer umc souncard, arturia drumbrute
hear scince reason 2.5

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NekujaK
Posts: 370
Joined: 09 Oct 2016
Location: USA

Post 07 Aug 2018

supersplaron wrote:
06 Aug 2018
Hello! Stefan from Propellerhead here. I'm going to start by saying that we are looking into this, and it's going well, but it's taking us a little bit more time than anticipated.
Thank you for the update, Stefan - it's very much appreciated. Performance optimization is the #1 feature on my list, far more important than any other enhancements or REs. I often use Reason in a professional setting, recording and mixing projects for clients, and it's embarrassing and frustrating when Reason constantly stutters and stops during sessions. This behavior is forcing me to abandon Reason and start using a different DAW, which I really don't want to do.

I have a powerful machine, specifically built to handle high-end video editing (Win 7, quad-core Xeon E5-1630, 32GB RAM), and among all my video production tools, graphics editing programs, and audio tools, Reason is the only application that struggles.

Looking forward to a faster, smoother Reason!! And please continue to keep us updated. Silence only makes us think our voices are being ignored.
wreaking havoc with :reason: since 2.5

atlatnesiti
Posts: 10
Joined: 19 Jun 2018

Post 07 Aug 2018

demt wrote:
07 Aug 2018
at the risk of repeating myself tryhttps://www.auslogics.com/en/software/boost-speed/at the risk of repeating myself try

seriously 6 months work of tweaking your machine in 1 min
Thanks for spam, not very helpful on this board.

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Oquasec
Posts: 1968
Joined: 05 Mar 2017

Post 08 Aug 2018

Advanced systemcare by iobit really makes windows 10 work like you just installed it.
and it's free
Producer/Sound Designer.

bossa
Posts: 27
Joined: 26 Jan 2017
Location: Gudensberg Germany

Post 08 Aug 2018

inteliboy wrote:
06 Aug 2018
Reason skips, stutters, stop, crashes, "computer is too slow" etc ever since VST's have been introduced. And is simply getting worse and worse, not better.

I've been playing with buffering, threading, multi-core options... but nothing really saves the day. Only a full restart, and have no other apps going - and constantly having to be aware of what vsts and rack extensions are resource hogs, and always cleaning files up to "bounce in place". Which honestly, this day and age you shouldn't have to lean on.

This could be a Mac optimisation issue with the core Reason engine itself. No other DAW are having these issues.

Recently upgraded my laptop (mac) with faster CPU, more ram, more hard disk space... upgrading from a 6+ year old laptop and am seeing barely any difference in performance. Even though every other piece of software I use is now running a lot faster. In fact, some reason files randomly run more smoothly on the old laptop - both with the same version of High Sierra.

When are Propellerheads going to buckle down and release a performance update? Not more free bundles and offers at their store, not more minor upgrades or auto-chord playing gadgets for non-musicians.... But actually have a DAW that stand up to the competition? I heard whispers months and months back an update was coming... but am still impatiently waiting.
That is exactly my opinion. I love Reason and hope we can work in future with higher performance. Please give us back the good "old" Reason performance!

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demt
Posts: 727
Joined: 16 Sep 2016

Post 08 Aug 2018

atlatnesiti wrote:
07 Aug 2018
demt wrote:
07 Aug 2018
at the risk of repeating myself tryhttps://www.auslogics.com/en/software/boost-speed/at the risk of repeating myself try

seriously 6 months work of tweaking your machine in 1 min
Thanks for spam, not very helpful on this board.
tell me a better way and im yours ps been using reason scince reason 2 on reason station and reason talk
i spent 6 months getting my computer speeds up and i was as incrediouless as you about smart progs speeding it up im just telling you how gobsmacked i am to find this works i really carnt run reason without it and a couple of extra tricks like unthroteling the cpu speed
As for this board lighten up it takes all sorts
neutron; tb3; triggerfingerpro;3korg volca keys fm drums; kaos pad 3;zaquencer; akai mpk mini;2 zmx mixers; midiplus interface; behringer umc souncard, arturia drumbrute
hear scince reason 2.5

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demt
Posts: 727
Joined: 16 Sep 2016

Post 08 Aug 2018

there is more, computers hve evolved way past the ability of 1 man to keep them in ship shape fashion i noticed not having the time to completely get it to run at max spec a phew years ago and i used to be able to get max performance in 1/2 an hour of a good clean a some speed tricks your gonna cost yourself a fortune if you dont get won of the many all in 1 cleaers optimizersdefragglers, driver updaters especially labour intensive even if you only use it once it makes a hell of a diffrence
what i dont understand is why not many agree with my angle what is it youve got that i havent seriously peeved

the won and only demt and his fan club
neutron; tb3; triggerfingerpro;3korg volca keys fm drums; kaos pad 3;zaquencer; akai mpk mini;2 zmx mixers; midiplus interface; behringer umc souncard, arturia drumbrute
hear scince reason 2.5

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demt
Posts: 727
Joined: 16 Sep 2016

Post 08 Aug 2018

praps i should start a thread on pc maintenance and optimization software and how essential it is these days
neutron; tb3; triggerfingerpro;3korg volca keys fm drums; kaos pad 3;zaquencer; akai mpk mini;2 zmx mixers; midiplus interface; behringer umc souncard, arturia drumbrute
hear scince reason 2.5

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Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2170
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 08 Aug 2018

demt wrote:
07 Aug 2018
at the risk of repeating myself tryhttps://www.auslogics.com/en/software/boost-speed/at the risk of repeating myself try

seriously 6 months work of tweaking your machine in 1 min
he's using a Mac
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

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Faastwalker
Posts: 1320
Joined: 15 Jan 2015

Post 08 Aug 2018

I wouldn't say I have performance issues with Reason. Performance has been pretty consistent for as long as I can remember to be honest. It's only the odd power hungry RE that struggles. Blamsoft VK2 being the main culprit (which is the only reason I haven't bought it yet). Some of the patches just destroy my machine! But apart from that it's mostly very good. VST's are fine as well. Maybe I'm just not using enough tracks! System was built about 3 years ago.

Windows 10
Intel i5 quad core (3khz)
8GB RAM (1600mhz)
SSD

DOEXmusic
Posts: 13
Joined: 17 Jul 2018

Post 08 Aug 2018

inteliboy wrote:
06 Aug 2018
Reason skips, stutters, stop, crashes, "computer is too slow" etc ever since VST's have been introduced. And is simply getting worse and worse, not better.

I've been playing with buffering, threading, multi-core options... but nothing really saves the day. Only a full restart, and have no other apps going - and constantly having to be aware of what vsts and rack extensions are resource hogs, and always cleaning files up to "bounce in place". Which honestly, this day and age you shouldn't have to lean on.

This could be a Mac optimisation issue with the core Reason engine itself. No other DAW are having these issues.

Recently upgraded my laptop (mac) with faster CPU, more ram, more hard disk space... upgrading from a 6+ year old laptop and am seeing barely any difference in performance. Even though every other piece of software I use is now running a lot faster. In fact, some reason files randomly run more smoothly on the old laptop - both with the same version of High Sierra.

When are Propellerheads going to buckle down and release a performance update? Not more free bundles and offers at their store, not more minor upgrades or auto-chord playing gadgets for non-musicians.... But actually have a DAW that stand up to the competition? I heard whispers months and months back an update was coming... but am still impatiently waiting.
Have the same problem man. Can't complete my projects because of this performance issue. Hope they can get an update to solve this issue. That's my main request for the next update.

DOEXmusic
Posts: 13
Joined: 17 Jul 2018

Post 08 Aug 2018

fotizimo wrote:
06 Aug 2018
I am running v10.1 on my i7 8gb Surface Pro 4, which on the face of things, isn't a high performance device. But every time I upgrade to a newer version of Reason, I get less and less performance out of this same machine. I used to get a dozen instruments per song I built back in v8 and v9. now if I am lucky, I get 8 instruments, with no change to the hardware at all. None of the performance settings make any difference in overall performance, and all my machine does now when I fire up old songs is sputter and choke. It's a year old machine that used to perform well enough for a portable artist that wrote on the go.

I guess I am starting to grow tired of the props team not focusing on performance, and optimization, while instead spending all visible time working on new REs.

It is time to start focusing on the main application, and making it run better. Does the business unit leaders not understand that even net-new users will leave the platform if the performance isn't where it should be? I have $1000's of dollars invested in Reason and looking to jump ship to Bitwig or Ableton.

Version 11 will be a "make it or break it" version for me. If they come out with more gadgets and no real performance enhancements, I am walking away.
Feel the same way. Reaper seems like a pretty good option in terms of performance, but I already invested too much money on Reason that makes it hard to switch to another DAW. I hope we can get an update to enhance performance. I think a lot of us would agree that we need this update as soon as possible.

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Marco Raaphorst
Posts: 2170
Joined: 22 Jan 2015

Post 09 Aug 2018

DOEXmusic wrote:
08 Aug 2018
fotizimo wrote:
06 Aug 2018
I am running v10.1 on my i7 8gb Surface Pro 4, which on the face of things, isn't a high performance device. But every time I upgrade to a newer version of Reason, I get less and less performance out of this same machine. I used to get a dozen instruments per song I built back in v8 and v9. now if I am lucky, I get 8 instruments, with no change to the hardware at all. None of the performance settings make any difference in overall performance, and all my machine does now when I fire up old songs is sputter and choke. It's a year old machine that used to perform well enough for a portable artist that wrote on the go.

I guess I am starting to grow tired of the props team not focusing on performance, and optimization, while instead spending all visible time working on new REs.

It is time to start focusing on the main application, and making it run better. Does the business unit leaders not understand that even net-new users will leave the platform if the performance isn't where it should be? I have $1000's of dollars invested in Reason and looking to jump ship to Bitwig or Ableton.

Version 11 will be a "make it or break it" version for me. If they come out with more gadgets and no real performance enhancements, I am walking away.
Feel the same way. Reaper seems like a pretty good option in terms of performance, but I already invested too much money on Reason that makes it hard to switch to another DAW. I hope we can get an update to enhance performance. I think a lot of us would agree that we need this update as soon as possible.
Yes I hear many people say Reaper has the best performance. Not using that, only Ableton + Reason. If Reason can get to the level Live is on I am happy.
Marco Raaphorst

Music & soundware https://melodiefabriek.com.
Check out my new ReFill Rockmen: https://melodiefabriek.com/blog/rockmen ... available/

EdGrip
Posts: 1273
Joined: 03 Jun 2016

Post 09 Aug 2018

I did a Reason vs. Reaper test a little while ago, running Repro 5. I think it's in the Repro thread. Huge difference in the number of instances I was able to run.
VK-2 is certainly a heavy one!

I think the way Reason works (CV) and processes audio makes optimization a big task - good luck Props!
Hopefully, what with Europa and Grain, the Props are in a comfortable position now to focus on workflow and the "boring" stuff.

Something I need to get better at is using lightweight devices to sketch things out, and then start to replace tracks with the heavy synths once the context is in place.

KarmaFunkarma
Posts: 6
Joined: 20 Jul 2018

Post 09 Aug 2018

EdGrip wrote:
09 Aug 2018
I did a Reason vs. Reaper test a little while ago, running Repro 5. I think it's in the Repro thread. Huge difference in the number of instances I was able to run.
VK-2 is certainly a heavy one!

I think the way Reason works (CV) and processes audio makes optimization a big task - good luck Props!
Hopefully, what with Europa and Grain, the Props are in a comfortable position now to focus on workflow and the "boring" stuff.

Something I need to get better at is using lightweight devices to sketch things out, and then start to replace tracks with the heavy synths once the context is in place.
I own and use Reason, Live, Bitwig and Reaper. I did the same test with all four with identical buffer/rate settings, testing one at a time with no other apps running, adding multiple instances of one VSTi for each test (Serum, Synth1, several different U-He synths, etc) playing back identical midi sequences until stuttering/stops occurred. In all cases, Reaper was the clear performance winner. Live and Bitwig were a little behind and about even to each other. Reason was far worse than all of the above. MacOS High Sierra - Core 17 2.4 - 16 Gig RAM.

Have used Reason since version 1. I love Reason as no environment feels the same or sounds exactly like it. But at this moment, it's getting zero use as performance issues drive my frustration and disrupt my creativity. Glad to know Props read these comments. Really hopeful for a fundamental change.

djs
Posts: 39
Joined: 29 Jan 2018

Post 09 Aug 2018

I have a surface pro i5 8gb ram and use up to 20 devices and effects with no performance issues (no VSTs or external programs). Are the VSTs the cause of the performance issues?

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antic604
Posts: 1256
Joined: 23 Oct 2017
Location: Warsaw, Poland

Post 09 Aug 2018

KarmaFunkarma wrote:
09 Aug 2018
I own and use Reason, Live, Bitwig and Reaper. I did the same test with all four with identical buffer/rate settings, testing one at a time with no other apps running, adding multiple instances of one VSTi for each test (Serum, Synth1, several different U-He synths, etc) playing back identical midi sequences until stuttering/stops occurred. In all cases, Reaper was the clear performance winner. Live and Bitwig were a little behind and about even to each other. Reason was far worse than all of the above. MacOS High Sierra - Core 17 2.4 - 16 Gig RAM.

Have used Reason since version 1. I love Reason as no environment feels the same or sounds exactly like it. But at this moment, it's getting zero use as performance issues drive my frustration and disrupt my creativity. Glad to know Props read these comments. Really hopeful for a fundamental change.
But was it consistent for all the plugins you've tested? I did similar test some time ago (Reason, Bitwig, Live, Studio One) and the results were quite revealing - Studio One was obviously the best (being similar to Cubase, Reaper or Logic in that it's a traditional linear DAW), Live and Bitwig were on par and Reason would sometime be 5-10% behind, sometimes 50-60%. So it's quite dependant on the plugin and confirms what was found some time ago, that Reason expects a fixed 64 sample buffer from VSTs and those that can't provide that cause problems.

But the other thing I've noticed was how much more predictable Reason was - in Live or Bitwig I could add 5-10% more instances of given plugin, but when - after adding another one - they'd start glitching it wasn't enough to remove 1 instance, but sometimes required 5 or more. Reason on the other hand was very predictable: I've added one which caused glitches, then I could just remove it to resume correct playback.

So, what I'm trying to say is that Reason definitely is the least efficient DAW when it comes to VSTs, but the extent of the problem is very plugin dependant and also it somehow handles the high load more 'gracefuly' than other DAWs :)
Reason 10 // Bitwig 2 // Live 10 @ Surface Pro 4 i7 8/256GB
My music: https://soundcloud.com/antic604

DOEXmusic
Posts: 13
Joined: 17 Jul 2018

Post 09 Aug 2018

Marco Raaphorst wrote:
09 Aug 2018
DOEXmusic wrote:
08 Aug 2018

Feel the same way. Reaper seems like a pretty good option in terms of performance, but I already invested too much money on Reason that makes it hard to switch to another DAW. I hope we can get an update to enhance performance. I think a lot of us would agree that we need this update as soon as possible.
Yes I hear many people say Reaper has the best performance. Not using that, only Ableton + Reason. If Reason can get to the level Live is on I am happy.
I have tested Reaper for some time and the difference in performance is huge. I can run several instances of Serum on Reaper, something I can't do in Reason. I believe in Reason's developers, hope they can improve performance.

atlatnesiti
Posts: 10
Joined: 19 Jun 2018

Post 10 Aug 2018

demt wrote:
08 Aug 2018
praps i should start a thread on pc maintenance and optimization software and how essential it is these days
Hey dude, you are really starting to be beyond annoying with your meaningless spam posts.
Everyone here knows how to optimise their systems without crap software you mention all the time.

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